MetalCraze said:Acroding to Awor Szurkrarz Troika wanted to do an Action game
Troika did an action game. But it was first-/third-person.
You don't know shit about what you are talking about, do you?
Twinkle said:Kaanyrvhok, bro, please tell me: are you really insane or just trying too hard?
There is already a Total War game for consoles. You control only one unit (lol!). No jumping like a retard in front of the camera will ever beat racially pure keyboard and mouse in a RTS. The same reason why there are no console RPGs where you control a party. Do I need to say more?Kaanyrvhok said:Then again I think Total War should see a console if that Natal camera takes off.
Kaanyrvhok said:Any D&D RPG should be multiplatform. There hasn't been a console D&D RPG since the NES. I worked at Nintendo too. I did a building poll where I asked that question about the most recent D&D RPG. I framed it by eliminating BGDA because its a boring actionless adventureless game and KOTOR because its Star Wars. Oblivion won the poll big. Pool of Radiance had one vote out of more than 60 people.
Then again I think Total War should see a console if that Natal camera takes off.
Kaanyrvhok said:MetalCraze said:Acroding to Awor Szurkrarz Troika wanted to do an Action game
Troika did an action game. But it was first-/third-person.
I dont think Awor Szurkrarz was talking about Bloodlines. It sounded like he was talking about a game that was never published.
I was talking about Bloodlines. Note, that Bloodlines has sold the least from all the Troika cRPGs.Kaanyrvhok said:MetalCraze said:Acroding to Awor Szurkrarz Troika wanted to do an Action game
Troika did an action game. But it was first-/third-person.
I dont think Awor Szurkrarz was talking about Bloodlines. It sounded like he was talking about a game that was never published.
Kaanyrvhok said:Acroding to Awor Szurkrarz Troika wanted to do an Action game. I'm not suggesting an MMO. I'm suggesting 4 player co-op with 2-4 joinable slots for the CPU. That would give you a 4-8 player party. Maybe Ninja Gaiden style combat without the long combo strings unless you have a sick high level monk. Make it a short 25 hour game some C&C inbetween quest. Lots of solo stuff in the city and towns so the devs could focus on combat with humanoids.
Port it to the PC a few months later with polish, updates, improved graphics, and who would feel alienated? Beats the alternative. Western devs alinated more than half the market by letting the Japanese produce the only RPGs for the better part of two decades. That was a more damaging sin against the industry.
And yes its a more marketable concept than ToEE. I mentioned why ToEE was a lousy choice for a tactical CRPG but there were other reasons.ToEE should have been multiplatform. With the pie menues it was kinda consoleish anyway. Speaking of interfaces ToEE's clunky on the PC. Oblivion and FO 3 had a better interface than ToEE NWN, and Arcanum.
Any D&D RPG should be multiplatform. There hasn't been a console D&D RPG since the NES. I worked at Nintendo too. I did a building poll where I asked that question about the most recent D&D RPG. I framed it by eliminating BGDA because its a boring actionless adventureless game and KOTOR because its Star Wars. Oblivion won the poll big. Pool of Radiance had one vote out of more than 60 people.
They have lost a half of their fanbase by releasing ToEE anyway. And then they have lost a half of that half with Bloodlines.JarlFrank said:Imagine the shitstorm if Troika had made an action multiplayer ToEE and released it on consoles first, then made a PC-port. They would've lost their entire fanbase.
Awor Szurkrarz said:They have lost a half of their fanbase by releasing ToEE anyway. And then they have lost a half of that half with Bloodlines.JarlFrank said:Imagine the shitstorm if Troika had made an action multiplayer ToEE and released it on consoles first, then made a PC-port. They would've lost their entire fanbase.
Awor Szurkrarz said:I wouldn't be so sure. Bloodline reviews that I've read when it came didn't even mention bugs, but simply accused it for not being RPG enough.
Personally, I haven't even considered buying ToEE or Bloodlines when they came out because they were from different sub-genres than Fallout, Fallout 2 and Arcanum. It's not unthinkable that a part of the people who liked Fallout, Fallout 2 and Arcanum would like them for being role-playing heavy and wouldn't be interested in dungeon crawlers and action-RPGs.
JarlFrank said:Awor Szurkrarz said:They have lost a half of their fanbase by releasing ToEE anyway. And then they have lost a half of that half with Bloodlines.JarlFrank said:Imagine the shitstorm if Troika had made an action multiplayer ToEE and released it on consoles first, then made a PC-port. They would've lost their entire fanbase.
Yeah but that's because those games were buggy messes, not because they were bad games.
Pablosdog said:Umm, bloodlines was pretty roleplaying heavy
It's a dungeon crawl. Contrast it with a big world with multiple towns/cities in Fallout, Fallout 2 and Arcanum.Pablosdog said:toee is one of the most classic dnd modules in existence. So uh what the fuck?
Crispy said:Hell, what if you could switch on demand at any time, even in combat, between first-person, iso, VATS/RTwP, and true turn-based? The company that does this first shall rule the universe.
MetalCraze said:Man if you find it easier to use a gamepad to dig through the Oblivion piece of shit inventory than using mouse to comfortably selecting options and keyboard to use shortcuts in ToEE you must be disabled or something, probably in the head.
The radial character menu is clunky and overbearing (although the variety of options is interesting) and adds an unexpected tactical element when you accidentally click whatever was under the radial memory on screen, and your fighter suddenly runs to the other side of the room in the middle of a large battle.
06-18-2007, 12:45 PM
I dislike the radial interface - seriously, does anyone enjoy reading text sideways? - and info displays are not very, well, informative, IMHO. Plus I miss having customizable toolbars. It just feels clunky compared to, say, NWN.
No more mouse radial menus, which was a really awkward and annoying thing in the NWNs (and also ToEE, by the way)
The radial menu available to all characters is a bit unwieldy in that mousing ... the option you want to choose for your mouse wavering all over the place.
The radial menu can be a bit irritating to use outside of combat.
The mouse cursor moves jerkily about the screen, which makes it difficult to navigate the radial menus and click on some of the small text required,
MetalCraze said:There is already a Total War game for consoles. You control only one unit (lol!). No jumping like a retard in front of the camera will ever beat racially pure keyboard and mouse in a RTS. The same reason why there are no console RPGs where you control a party. Do I need to say more?
Natal is built for nothing. It's just a hoax. Just look at its hype videos, what a load of BS. It will be Eye-Toy take 3 at best.
Twinkle said:sniip
Clockwork Knight said:Oblivion is D&D now?
JarlFrank said:Okay, man. Let's do this again.
ToEE was a party-based dungeon crawler. It was a game that the devs wanted to make. It was a game any oldschool RPG player who liked RPGs in the 90's would have loved to play. It did have a market. A solid niche on the PC.
Also, who would've been alienated if the game was released on consoles first, then ported to PC? Are you serious? EVERYONE! Everyone who loved Arcanum and expected something similar, everyone who was looking forward to a party-based dungeon crawler, everyone who knew that Troika developers were people who made hardcore RPGs, generally just Troika's complete target group. Most Fallout fans were heavily disappointed by Bethesda's Fallout 3 because it was a consolized dumbed down version of their beloved series, but at least Bethesda had the decency to release the PC version at the same time as the Xbox version. Imagine the shitstorm if Troika had made an action multiplayer ToEE and released it on consoles first, then made a PC-port. They would've lost their entire fanbase.]
Also, your idea doesn't solve anything. Yes, Troika might have survived, but instead of giving us the games we want they would have become yet another mediocre/shitty console-centred developer like Bethesda.
Oh, and most RPGs in the last 2 decades were made by the Japs? Seriously? Maybe on consoles, but not on the PC. Heck, most Jap RPGs haven't even been ported to PC which means that they don't exist for a PC-player like me. For me, all RPGs in the last 20 years have been produced by Americans and Europeans. Ultima, Might and Magic, Wizardry, Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Gold Box games, Bard's Tale, Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, Icewind Dale, Realms of Arkania... do you see any Japanese title in there? I don't.
They're all Western RPGs made by Western developers for the PC. And there has always been an audience for them. Why should Troika try to reach the console players if they have their audience right there?
The game was a year away from being a 360 launch title. How does that not happen?
Why could they not afford to be conservative and why do you think they weren't, anyway? Their games didn't have AAA+ production values so they could afford it. They didn't spend a shitload of money on graphics, animations and famous people as voiceactors. They tried to appeal to a niche, and they failed because of delivering buggy products, having shitty project management and their publishers sucked, not because they didn't aim at a broad enough audience.Kaanyrvhok said:JarlFrank said:Okay, man. Let's do this again.
ToEE was a party-based dungeon crawler. It was a game that the devs wanted to make. It was a game any oldschool RPG player who liked RPGs in the 90's would have loved to play. It did have a market. A solid niche on the PC.
Also, who would've been alienated if the game was released on consoles first, then ported to PC? Are you serious? EVERYONE! Everyone who loved Arcanum and expected something similar, everyone who was looking forward to a party-based dungeon crawler, everyone who knew that Troika developers were people who made hardcore RPGs, generally just Troika's complete target group. Most Fallout fans were heavily disappointed by Bethesda's Fallout 3 because it was a consolized dumbed down version of their beloved series, but at least Bethesda had the decency to release the PC version at the same time as the Xbox version. Imagine the shitstorm if Troika had made an action multiplayer ToEE and released it on consoles first, then made a PC-port. They would've lost their entire fanbase.]
Troika didnt have the market share to afford being conservative and they weren't conservative anyway so the only thing they could do was expand. The only way to do that was to go multiplatform or find a publisher that could crack the Korean market. They should have learned that from Black Isle. Their fan base was insignificant compared to what they needed. It should have started with Bloodlines. The game was a year away from being a 360 launch title. How does that not happen? Thats million dollar franchise easy.
So they develop one action Ninja Gaiden style RPG thats console first. Thats not going to alienate their fan base. B real Even the PC CRPG crowed is not a hardcore gaming demographic. Most of the people that bought ToEE didnt know what Greyhawk was or who Gary Gygax was. I doubt more than 50K people would have given a damn if Troika devloped a couple RPGs that were released console first.
Because the game you suggest ToEE should have been is something I wouldn't really like to play. Mostly because of its multiplayer focus. I don't mind action RPGs, I like them as long as the combat is fun, but if your version of ToEE had been released, the Codex wouldn't like it as much as it does now.Also, your idea doesn't solve anything. Yes, Troika might have survived, but instead of giving us the games we want they would have become yet another mediocre/shitty console-centred developer like Bethesda.
How do you make that reach?
Yes, you're talking about console titles. Fact is, I don't care about consoles and neither do many other PC gamers. Another fact is that PC exclusive RPGs did sell really well for over 20 years.Oh, and most RPGs in the last 2 decades were made by the Japs? Seriously? Maybe on consoles, but not on the PC. Heck, most Jap RPGs haven't even been ported to PC which means that they don't exist for a PC-player like me. For me, all RPGs in the last 20 years have been produced by Americans and Europeans. Ultima, Might and Magic, Wizardry, Baldur's Gate, Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Gold Box games, Bard's Tale, Eye of the Beholder, Dungeon Master, Icewind Dale, Realms of Arkania... do you see any Japanese title in there? I don't.
Stop playing stupid. You know what I was talking about. If you dont rewind and think about it.
They're all Western RPGs made by Western developers for the PC. And there has always been an audience for them. Why should Troika try to reach the console players if they have their audience right there?
Black Isle