How come no one but the people of the Codex

[Lacrymas]

What you don't seem to get as that you don't need to justify something as subjective as "fun". You either find it fun, or you don't. Moreover, it's impossible to justify why someone else should find a certain game more fun than another, because it is entirely subjective.

You can justify why New Vegas is a better RPG than Fallout 4. You can't justify why New Vegas is an objectively more fun game than Fallout 4.

Oh, I'm perfectly aware of what you can or can't justify. You finding Skyrim fun says a lot about you, not about it. It's interesting how that works.

 

[Sigourn]

Wouldn't you prefer a game that is good at the things you like in Skyrim?

I don't think Skyrim does these things badly, but certainly not what I would call "great". That said, of course I would love a first-person open world RPG that did these things fantastically. Only game I can think of is Gothic II, and I'm not playing it until I get a better rig that gets rid of those annoying stutter issues.

 

[Delterius]

I don't think Skyrim does these things badly, but certainly not what I would call "great".

So Skyrim is mediocre at the things you like?

 

[Sigourn]

So Skyrim is mediocre at the things you like?

There's a saying that I never found any use for until today: Skyrim is much greater than the sum of its parts. A lot of games do individual aspects of Skyrim much better. Morrowind does faction progression better, and so does Gothic. Fallout does writing better. Gothic does feel of stat progression better. New Vegas has a much more interesting storyline (though crippled in its pace). Dark Souls has far better combat and art direction.

But Skyrim is the jack of all trades, and some times I want to play a game that isn't just "amazing" at a few things.

 

[buru5]

Oh, I'm perfectly aware of what you can or can't justify. You finding Skyrim fun says a lot about you, not about it. It's interesting how that works.

Take the test again, this time answer the questions honestly.

 

[SteelAttack]

I had a lot of joy and plenty of good times with Skyrim. Almost all of that while in the process of modding it to almost unrecognizable levels. I still saw it through and beat the main quest, though. After spending a hundred hours tinkering about with the game, it felt like the right thing to do. Got some cool pics out of it at least, even if I can't remember most of the story or what I did, beyond the old hobos shouting and the dragons talking.

 

[Delterius]

Skyrim is much greater than the sum of its parts.

Why isn't Skyrim exactly equal to the sum of its admittedly mediocre parts? You confirm the game's mediocrity but puts nothing forward as to why it would be more than what it is.

 

[Sigourn]

Why isn't Skyrim exactly equal to the sum of its admittedly mediocre parts? You confirm the game's mediocrity but puts nothing forward as to why it would be more than what it is.

How do you expect me to explain why Skyrim is fun, when I've repeteadly stated that "how well made a game is" has nothing to do with "how fun a game is"? I already have proof for this: I enjoy playing Skyrim, even if I'm aware the game leaves a lot to be desired in many aspects.

Are you able to give me a game that is like Skyrim, but much better? If so, feel free to post it.

 

[Delterius]

How do you expect me to explain why Skyrim is fun

With your own words. Why is Skyrim fun?

 

[Sigourn]

With your own words. Why is Skyrim fun?

Probably because of the immersion aspect. I forget I'm playing a videogame, as opposed to most cRPGs, so I have fun going around the world as if it was a real place. I don't know what else to tell you: just like with Skyrim, there are plenty of games, even classic cRPGs, that I enjoy playing but I wouldn't be able to nail down why. It's something that you feel, not something you express in words.

 

[Quillon]

With your own words. Why is Skyrim fun?

Probably because of the immersion aspect. I forget I'm playing a videogame, as opposed to most cRPGs, so I have fun going around the world as if it was a real place. I don't know what else to tell you: just like with Skyrim, there are plenty of games, even classic cRPGs, that I enjoy playing but I wouldn't be able to nail down why. It's something that you feel, not something you express in words.

It just works?

 

[Sigourn]

It just works?

Upon further inspection, I conclude: it does just work. Todd Howard is a modern philosopher.

 

[Delterius]

Probably because of the immersion aspect.

What makes Skyrim excel at that?

 

[Sigourn]

Probably because of the immersion aspect.

What makes Skyrim excel at that?

That it is a fully tridimensional world with a first person perspective, one of the most powerful elements at making you feel you are in the world and not just a player controlling someone in a videogame. It also has voiced NPCs, NPCs that go from town to town, people who create weapons and sell stuff at their market stalls. A world where animals round around and even sleep. Animals that fight with each other. The sound design.

Among many other things that anyone who has played Skyrim is a aware of. I honestly don't know why you insist on a topic that is pointless: I enjoy Skyrim and you don't, move on. I never asked you why you enjoy certain games.

 

[ore clover]

Why isn't Skyrim exactly equal to the sum of its admittedly mediocre parts? You confirm the game's mediocrity but puts nothing forward as to why it would be more than what it is.

How do you expect me to explain why Skyrim is fun, when I've repeteadly stated that "how well made a game is" has nothing to do with "how fun a game is"? I already have proof for this: I enjoy playing Skyrim, even if I'm aware the game leaves a lot to be desired in many aspects.

Are you able to give me a game that is like Skyrim, but much better? If so, feel free to post it.

I disagree with this notion. Fun is a vague term, so it's of course difficult to pin down what causes it, but I still think the quality of a game's mechanics can affect the degree.

Take Skyrim, since that's the current focus. A lot of people play the game, and enjoy it. However, I think a vital question to ask is "How many people play Skyrim without mods?" Quite a few play the game with extensive mod lists, to the point that there are mods just to keep track of mods.

To me, that implies that the game on its own isn't providing the amount of fun they want, due to the quality level of its mechanics and visual/audio presentation (and so on), and so they use mods to compensate.

Mind you, I'm not condemning the vanilla product as objectively less fun than a modded experience. But I do think that how much fun someone has with a game can't be divorced from how well the game itself is made.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

It's been four pages guys. Maybe you could drop the spanish inquisition act and cut Sigourn some slack for liking Skyrim. As offensive as it may be...

 

[Konjad]

Codex ain't a special snowflake or with a more sophisticated userbase. Over half of the 'dex played Skyrim and Fallout 4, but ask how many played Prelude to Darkness or The Void.

Codex is as casual as any other site.

 

[Delterius]

I never asked you why you enjoy certain games.

Feel free to.

That it is a fully tridimensional world with a first person perspective, one of the most powerful elements at making you feel you are in the world and not just a player controlling someone in a videogame. It also has voiced NPCs, NPCs that go from town to town, people who create weapons and sell stuff at their market stalls. A world where animals round around and even sleep. Animals that fight with each other. The sound design.

The socratic method worked and the vague platitudes have been dispelled. You like Skyrim because its a first person game with NPC schedules. Not a lot of games offer that so its not hard to see why someone would enjoy Skyrim despite being utterly mediocre. I weep for you though.

 

[Sigourn]

I disagree with this notion. Fun is a vague term, so it's of course difficult to pin down what causes it, but I still think the quality of a game's mechanics can affect the degree.

Take Skyrim, since that's the current focus. A lot of people play the game, and enjoy it. However, I think a vital question to ask is "How many people play Skyrim without mods?" Quite a few play the game with extensive mod lists, to the point that there are mods just to keep track of mods.

To me, that implies that the game on its own isn't providing the amount of fun they want, due to the quality level of its mechanics and visual/audio presentation (and so on), and so they use mods to compensate.

Mind you, I'm not condemning the vanilla product as objectively less fun than a modded experience. But I do think that how much fun someone has with a game can't be divorced from how well the game itself is made.

I definitely agree. Skyrim was my first western RPG. Before that, I had only played Final Fantasy games on my PS1 and PS2. So the graphics and the amount of freedom was really engaging. Nowadays, after having experienced other RPGs, Skyrim just isn't as fun. I can't tell for sure if I would enjoy vanilla Skyrim anymore, then again it's psychological: I don't enjoy the game because I'm aware I could be playing a better version of it (mods).

That said: no, I wouldn't install Skyrim to play it vanilla. After experincing better games and mods, I see that the game isn't that fun as it is. It has a lot of flaws that prevent it from being actual fun, and instead the game feels like a very... unrewarding experience, in a way. Then again, I asume people in this discussion are all talking about modded Skyrim and not vanilla Skyrim.

Thaaaaaaaaat said: between vanilla Skyrim, and classic RPGs, I would probably have more fun with vanilla Skyrim. But make no mistake: I would rather play something else, like modded Skyrim or modded New Vegas (another game that, incidentally, is fairly boring in its vanilla state).

 

[Delterius]

Skyrim was my first western RPG.

That too. My cousin was 14 when she played Skyrim. Most mindblowing event of her life. She thinks its a quaint game nowadays.

 

[Sigourn]

Skyrim was my first western RPG.

That too. My cousin was 14 when she played Skyrim. Most mindblowing event of her life. She thinks its a quaint game nowadays.

Not sure what you are implying, but since playing Skyrim I've played, in order:

- Fallout 3
- Fallout: New Vegas
- The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
- Planescape: Torment
- Gothic
- Wasteland 2 Director's Cut
- Fallout
- King's Field
- Dark Souls: Prepare to Die
- Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne

As well as bits and pieces of:

- Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
- Baldur´s Gate
- Deus Ex
- Deus Ex: Human Revolution – Director's Cut
- The Witcher: Enhanced Edition Director's Cut
- Gothic II Gold
- Shin Megami Tensei
- Final Fantasy Origins

Liking Skyrim doesn't stop me from playing and enjoying other games.

 

[buru5]

Seems like a trend, first Bethesda game is usually the favorite. Oblivion was mine and it will always be one of my favorite games despite its various issues.

*1 user already triggered by this post

 

[Delterius]

Not sure what you are implying, but since playing Skyrim I've played, in order:

It was your first computer 'rpg'. You won't ever stop enjoying it. Nor should you. At best you'll be able to see it for a mediocre marketable shell that is exactly the sum of its parts.

 

[HansDampf]

For the most part, not really. Part of what makes Skyrim so fun to me is that I feel in a real world, thanks to the nice looking (modded) graphics. That way, even the most boring mountain is beautiful to look at, and that stops it from being boring.

That's like every open world game.

 

[Sigourn]

It was your first computer 'rpg'. You won't ever stop enjoying it.

Pretty sure you are wrong:

That said: no, I wouldn't install Skyrim to play it vanilla.

 

[Delterius]

It was your first computer 'rpg'. You won't ever stop enjoying it.

Pretty sure you are wrong:

That said: no, I wouldn't install Skyrim to play it vanilla.

Congratulations, you play Skyrim the way it was designed to be played (with the players trying to finish the job of game development, and succeeding at the more basic things). I'm still right though. You like the things Skyrim does, so you are ready to accept its mediocrity. You are that much more accepting because Skyrim was the first w'rpg' you played.