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HoMM 6 leaked

Serious_Business

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xemous said:
all homm games are boring and repetitive i never understood the appeal

Seconded, my good man.

However, I am very angry about this, dumbing down, decline of the gaming industry, decline of humankind, everybody is a retard, why am I alone on Earth, cries of rage, etc etc
 

kris

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ZbojLamignat said:
For years the HoM&M community knew that town portal breaks the game completely and must be banned in official matches so now we get it as an easily accessible feature for all the castles and heroes, get the fuck in there, this is so next gen that I will make an X360 port myself if they won't do it.

So it was not just me...
 

Malakal

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Glory to Ukraine
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Ye, seriously, dimension door and town portal were so fucking imbalanced it isnt even funny. Good thing they fixed it. Of course I would remove it instead (more strategy and managing more than one army/dividing troops for offensive and defensive/logistics) but its an acceptable solution too.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
ZbojLamignat said:
For years the HoM&M community knew that town portal breaks the game completely and must be banned in official matches so now we get it as an easily accessible feature for all the castles and heroes, get the fuck in there, this is so next gen that I will make an X360 port myself if they won't do it.

Someone's crying about beginner level being too hard already with the AI being such a town turtling whore...I mean, fuck, it's not the sign of great AI when all it did is exploit the greatly imbalanced defensive gameplay.

Not buying this shit. Skipped the demo. I'm also with xemous with 'what's the appeal?' everytime people hype the next release. The fourth heroes tries to break the boring formula, but suffered from half finished shit. RIP, Heroes. Enjoy your 9/10 ratings on mainstream yet decreased sales due to great games being pirated. You totally deserve it.
 

Marsal

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Joined
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Messages
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ZbojLamignat said:
For years the HoM&M community knew that town portal breaks the game completely and must be banned in official matches so now we get it as an easily accessible feature for all the castles and heroes, get the fuck in there, this is so next gen that I will make an X360 port myself if they won't do it.
I think they got TP right (or as close to "right" as I remember). TP is not overpowered if you don't have Earth magic skill and don't exploit blocking TP with heroes. The way it works in Heroes 6 is that you get the spell on all heroes by making a TP building in one (or more) towns. There are 2 levels of TP building. The first level allows you to TP from a town to any other town you own. Advanced version allows you to TP to the closest town with the Level 2 TP building (so a somewhat nerfed Basic TP from Heroes3). TP spend movement points (I think 15 basic and 20 advanced, out of 30ish your heroes usually have) and you can't use it more than once with the same hero in the same day (it takes 2 turns to TP to any town form any place, with reduced movement and mana). The TP buildings themselves are rather expensive, but you can get them rather early (in the first week even) if you absolutely want/need them at the cost of 2nd tier (elite creature) buildings (4,5,6 level units form H3).

I finished the Tutorial and Necro campaign on hard. I think I won't be playing again any time soon.

IMPRESSIONS (DISCLAIMER: may contain some errors, language and factual):

Unit design (visual) is very nice and mostly not overdone. Individual combat animations are great, although units just swing in the air when attacking. There are even idle animations (I literally laughed out loud when the Fate weaver started juggling while I was pondering my next move).

Only 5 factions + neutral units (mostly elementals, wolves and phoenix).

Factions are unique and have their own playstyle you need to implement in order to do well in the game. While good, I find it makes you use only the troops of your own faction. No more mixing and matching different troops. This is enhanced by the ability to convert other faction towns to your type (it's not cheap, but converts all but a few unique buildings in the town).

Inferno melee units all look alike. Seriously, except the two ranged units, Brood mother(?) and Succubus(?), they all look like redish demons. Although they do vary in size and looks, it's hard to tell which one is which at a glance. The orc melee units also look very similar on the field. Maybe it's just me.

Cyclops (orc Champion unit) is, in a word, awesome. While not original in any case, it is designed well visually and has some great abilities. No more throwing rocks, but a laser ray attack (think X-Men Cyclops) and pain resistance (it only registers suffered damage at the begining of its turn). This often leads to multiple Cyclops unit stacks falling like dominos. Yes, I'm easily amused.

Speaking of cool abilities, Vampires can "draw a line in the sand with the sword" (don't know the exact name) and be invulnerable to the first attack if they defend.

Necro faction is awesome with great abilities that make you never lose units (if you have enough money and mana). Necromancy has been revorked in a heal/rise dead effect in combat + unique building that lets you buy lost units at a 50% price premium for 3 days after the fight (price goes down, time up, with multiple buildings). So no more thousands of skeletons in a stack, but greater numbers of all units.

Towns have area of control and mines can't be taken permanently if you don't control the nearby town. There are skills that help you steal/stop production. No once-weekly resource giving map buildings (like windmill in H3). Only 4 resources: wood, ore, gold and crystals(?).

There is a setting for auto combat with the option to "replay" manually if not satisfied with results. You can enable/disable mana usage. Great option for trash encounters, as auto combat does a good job of simulating the losses (you can always do better manually, but it saves a lot of time and reduces dull fights to a minimum). It does use a lot of mana in the battles, though.

You can't replenish mana in the town (at least I think you can't). It regenerates about 5% per day (as far as I can tell) and there are skills to improve this. There are map sites that replenish/double your mana, usable once weekly by type (you can't use it, spend some mana then come back or find another building of same type the same week and use it again).

All of his does reduce tediousness, speeds up and balances the game, but also takes most of the charm of Heroes (2 and 3) away. It could be a fun MP game I guess.

New skill/magic system is well done. There are 3 levels of passive and active skills in both might and magic trees (I'd say about 200-300 skills to choose from). Magic heroes get first 2 levels of might skills and all 3 levels of magic (every faction has one magic school excluded). Might heroes 3 levels of might skills, 2 of magic. Active skills have a cooldown (2-3 turns) or 1 charge per combat. Might active skills don't consume mana, while the magic skills (spells) are generally more powerful. There are support skills like allowing hero to build 2 building in a town the same turn, pillage mines, increase creature production...

Spells and skills are useful and emphasis has been put on support spells rather then on spamming the same damage dealing spell (all spells have cooldown). I found the damage has also been toned down (Implosion dealing about 3k damage on a level 30 magic hero). I may be misremembering H3 numbers, though. I particularly like Life leech, the Puppet spell (like Hypnosis), but works on everything living + is dispelled if the unit takes damage, Time stasis (unit can't do anything for a couple of turns, but you can only use it once per combat) and Petrify (makes a unit invulnerable to damage, but unable to do anything, can be used on both enemy and friendly units).

New mechanic: way of tears/blood. You gather points for using tear/blood skills/spells (there are tear, blood and neutral skills/spells) in combat and for some quest decisions (mostly cosmetic) and other actions (letting units flee when outnumbered or chasing them down). Each spell used is 1 point and letting enemies flee is 10, IIRC. You get first extra ability at 250 points and a second at 1000 (you start with one ability at 0). If you chose one way at 250, you can't go back later, even if you have more of other points (I think). Abilities vary by might/magic hero and faction, so there are quite a few. They are pretty useful and are a nice addition to the game, enabling you to further customize the hero to your playstyle (or make the hero reflect your playstyle).

I think you can change the hero type (might/magic) in town, but I played only the campaign, so I'm not sure about this.

Heal, regeneration and similar spells resurrect dead units from the stack (up to max stack size at the beginning of the combat).

There are two main type of units, living and undead (even elementals are living or undead, IIRC). That seems a little weird.

Haste and slow have been toned down, especially mass versions.

No more weak tier 1 units. I think all units have more than 20 HP. Although you still get 7 units(+upgraded versions) per faction, there are now only 3 tiers (3 Core, 3 Elite, 1 Champion) with similar stats for units in the same tier.

Most battlefields are smallish (about 13x11, or something like that) and I don't remember seeing units that move less than 4 squares and more than 7. Slow is -2 effect and doesn't stack with other movement debuffs.

All units have multiple unique abilities. I would say even too many unique abilities. You have to spend a couple of minutes studying a new unit type you encounter (and you can't see descriptions before you engage in combat). I think this makes things unnecessarily complicated.

You can always resurrect heroes and fleeing from combat doesn't cost you all of your troops (I think only 25%). Also, I think you can only have heroes of your faction under your command. There are game setting and skills (Mentor gives 75% exp of main hero to other hero) that make your other heroes closer to the level of the primary hero. Useful for scouting, support, pillaging roles.

Maps look shitty and bland, towns look shitty, town animation you get when clicking on a town is stupid and pointless. I don't really mind removing town screens as such, but it's just lazy design. Instead of streamlining the interface, they made it convoluted and unintuitive. There are some nice features (like slots that you can customize by dragging various often used icons), but what good is that when there is no clear indicator of what hero I have selected, how many movement points I have left, how many MPs I will expend or how many turns/MP it takes to reach something. I can't find a single well designed piece of interface in the whole game. They tried to make it "fancy" and "modern", but made it fiddly and unusable. It's really a huge clusterfuck.

Hero screen follows the design of everything else (it's garbage). There are item sets, in fact most of the items belong to a set. sets usually consist of 6 items and give extra bonuses for equipping 2, 4 and all 6.

The new hero stats and formulas used to calculate the potency of spells/skills/creatures are unnecessarily complicated (I have seen the formulas), unintuitive, hidden from the player and never explained in the game. King's Bounty used a rather simple system and did it well, as far as I could tell. Heroes 3 used a simple system that needed just some tweaking (spell duration directly tied to spell power and knowledge to mana being the primary targets, IIRC). You really can't tell what skill/stat will make your hero better in the way you want him to be or by how much. And if you're not optimizing in a strategy game, what's the point of playing? Although, truth be told, story, writing and the characters aren't the worst shit ever. I think they do a decent job for a Heroes game (I still dislike the new lore).

Performance is good, everything maxed at Full HD resolution on Athlon II X3 and Radeon 3870 (a low end system). There are a few minor bugs after the 500 MB 0-day patch (cursor blinking being the most annoying one).

Overall, it's a streamlined version of Heroes, with faster (and at times less tedious and grindy) gameplay, but without the essence, charm and depth of the old games. Much like Civ 5 (improved combat, nice visual design, everything else streamlined, soulless garbage), Heroes 6, while making some improvements, manages to fuck (more or less) most of the good things Heroes franchise traditionally was based on. I'm convinced bugs will get ironed pretty fast, new factions and options added in expansions, interface improved, but the un-Heroes-like design of core elements will remain.

It really isn't a bad game, or even a soulless one, but it's not a good Heroes game (a frequent theme these days, isn't it). I recommend trying before buying, you might like it (especially if playing MP).

There is a fan manual floating on the net. It's mostly well done and you can find almost everything about the game in there. Here's the link: Manual (download & open with pdf viewer).
 

ZbojLamignat

Educated
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Ok, bros I'm a liar and I will give my impressions. I just played another few hours and, like some herp-a-derpers already suggested in this thread, got borded. Single scenario against AI, cause I never gave a fuck about sp campaigns and didn't have anyone to kill in multi.

- level 1 is the new level 7, low tier creatures are some of the most powerful in the game and there's not really that much difference between different tiers, forget about rolfstomping huge stacks of 1-2 lvl weaklings with 6 lvl creatures - they will rape you
- yeah so there was this cool feature in V - the fact that you could highlight which creature is going to move when on the initiative bar and could even give orders using it. Like I said, was.
- initially I was under the impression that the battlefield got a bit bigger, but it's still the same shit as in V - low tier, theoretically slow infantry units cross it in two moves. Welcome to the clusterfuckville.
- it's the sixth instalment, it's 2011 and the battle ai is till nonexistent. The only thing it does is still kamikaze attack archers/mages to kill as many vulnerable units as possible. Again, again and again.
- yep, the town and dwelling conversions are sure here. You press a button and something magical happens. Literally, there's a flash of light and voila!
- jesus christ, the interface, the townscreen and especially the hero inventory/skill tress. Can't see shit captain. It looks like a browser game as everything is stuck close together and fucking similar. And how difficult it is to make some simple, yet nice looking and clearly distinguishable skill icons? Stop using this goddamn homo french homo comic homo saturday homo morning homo artist. He's fucking homo and his work is pathetic.
- holy shit there's asian atlantis castle with mansharks and green apes with bidets instead of heads. Of course we don't need wizard's or worlock's castles if we can have such awesome things, amirite?
- so they removed most of the special resources, everyone needs the same things in similar amounts and with that zones of economic control bullshit you cannot really starve your enemy of his resources. So what would change if they left only gold or only super-duper magical crystals from hell? Nothing, in such a ruleset it makes no difference. But we have 4 resources so it's strategy. Next-gen logic in work.
- 5 castles only, very few maps, even less things to do and visit on them than in V. DLC galore incoming!
- yeah, it's still beta and they accidentally slipped menial bugs like luck not working at all (the icon flashes, but no damage bonus) or mines randomly not giving resources.
 

Marsal

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Oct 2, 2006
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Forgot to mention: you can recruit all creatures in any town that has built a dwelling of their type. No more gathering troops in different towns. This is not as major change as it seems, given the other changes. You could emulate the same thing with 1 hero and a 1st level TP building per town.
 

ZbojLamignat

Educated
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Apr 29, 2010
Messages
382
Marsal said:
You can always resurrect heroes and fleeing from combat doesn't cost you all of your troops (I think only 25%).
Oh yes, and that. That is simply lovely when connected with the AIs favourite strategy of throwing a spell and running away. Also newly recruited heroes are already levelled (5 level below main hero's level or something) and you also have that Mentor skill that Marsal mentioned which is as stupidly op as in V - you can make tons of high level heroes instantly and send them do do kamikaze attacks or give them the realms skills (additional resources, tropps etc.). Derp.
 

Darth Roxor

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So I see nothing's changed since the Beta.

Good to know, hope it fucking tanks.
 

Archibald

Arcane
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Aug 26, 2010
Messages
7,869
Dunno, maybe my computer is too shitty to run this masterpiece but playing large map was pain in the ass, like doing my turn in 1 minute and being able to make myself some tea till i get my next turn.

- level 1 is the new level 7, low tier creatures are some of the most powerful in the game and there's not really that much difference between different tiers, forget about rolfstomping huge stacks of 1-2 lvl weaklings with 6 lvl creatures - they will rape you

I attacked "champion" tier unit(cyclops i think) with my starting army, thought that i`ll get raped. Nope, he could kill like 1-2 skeletons with one attack. I imagine i could have just splitted them and raped him with few deaths on my side. Won anyway.

Also newly recruited heroes are already levelled (5 level below main hero's level or something) and you also have that Mentor skill that Marsal mentioned which is as stupidly op as in V - you can make tons of high level heroes instantly and send them do do kamikaze attacks or give them the realms skills (additional resources, tropps etc.). Derp.

Or you can buy a hero once someone tries to attack your town and he'll be strong enough to defend it. One of more interesting things in older heroes games was having level 1 hero in some isolated town and trying to inflict as much damage as possible while being able to cast 2 spells, having shit +atack/def and one week worth of units.
 

kris

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Archibald said:
Also newly recruited heroes are already levelled (5 level below main hero's level or something) and you also have that Mentor skill that Marsal mentioned which is as stupidly op as in V - you can make tons of high level heroes instantly and send them do do kamikaze attacks or give them the realms skills (additional resources, tropps etc.). Derp.

Or you can buy a hero once someone tries to attack your town and he'll be strong enough to defend it. One of more interesting things in older heroes games was having level 1 hero in some isolated town and trying to inflict as much damage as possible while being able to cast 2 spells, having shit +atack/def and one week worth of units.

I doubt you can do that. AI usually goes around with one super stack and some hero without units. I defeated the AI with few battles as I avoided his superstack and took cities. If the AI have more than one city it suddenly loses its ability to turtle. The superstack will own you unless you got one of your own.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
For some reason I decided to try this again, despite deciding that the beta was bsb.

And yup, the game is still bland as all hell. The forts make exploring the map useless as you're only moving between preset nodes. The towns are so lacklustre that building them up aren't any fun either(the mutually exclusive buildings are nice, but it is not enough). Hero development is also boring as literally no skill, spell or ability feels like a significant thing. This leaves only the combat, and naturally they fucked that up too.

Not only are the maps tiny as shit: any unit can cross the entire map in 3 turns or less, the entire thing has been bloated with ridiculous amounts of health. Even tier one units can tank ridiculous amounts of punishment. I remember in the previous games when ~50 tier one units could easily destroy 20 or so of their own kind. In heroes6, they destroy maybe 3. This of course, makes all the battles an exercise in tediousness. Of course, you can just let the AI handle them, but what the fuck is the point?

I really can't think of a single reason for why anyone would play this instead of H5:ToE or H3. Even the endless battles of King's Bounty seem varied in comparison.
 

kyrub

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
347
Especially with the Eternal Essence mod which improves the AI and allows you to have 8 skills :]

I noticed the mod as well. It seems really a special case in modern gaming history: when was the last time the game programmer from a big company took his own product later to improve the AI (because he felt the work was unfinished when he was forced to give the game for the release)? Incredible.

http://www.eternal-essence.com/
The motivation for this project came originally from the desire to have a fast, non-cheating and challenging AI. In a way I believe that the AI is the core of a strategy game, and once this works, we can delve into using it for many advanced and interesting gameplay features. Buf if it doesn't, we mainly have to deal with workarounds. So, if you are interested in the motivation behind this project, read the objectives section in the AI category.
:salute:


I might even try HoMM V just for the sake of seeing this guys' work. Does the mod speed up the AI turn, Storyfag?
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
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Not that I noticed. But I only started playing with the mod two days ago, and probably screwed up the initial map settings (that is: I did not move the lookahead depth slider at all). Still, the AI is markedly better than in vanilla ToE, giving me and my wife a run for our money. And the damn thing FINALLY picks up treasure and uses Windmills and other once-per-week resource generators.
 
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Oct 20, 2011
Messages
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So yeah, the the game has been out in the PB store for quite some time :> I’m quite surprised that there are so few comprehensive opinions around.

My summary:

- If you’re a fan of the series, play III or V.

I haven’t played the campaign ( don’t really care for the “story” of any of the games; I played quite a few skirmishes and a few multi matches).

The “out of the box A.I” seems better than Heroes V (not counting ToE).

If it has one castle, it tends to turtle up to hell and back, making your life EXTREMELY difficult.

If it has more than one castles, it goes full retard, and retreats with ALL his heroes from the castle you’re approaching and runs for the next occupied castle. Unfortunately, it doesn’t take into account the importance of certain castles ( i.e: capitol built or champion unit building built ) no... if it has more castles, it prefers to run away from you, even from a castle with all building built, to a castle with just a few. Scorched earth to the max! Without the scorched.

The resources have indeed been reduced. Only gold, ore, wood and a generic “blood crystal” are now present. Don’t know if this is better or worse yet, since the mines have been distributed really sparingly on the maps, and the blood crystal resource is incredibly hard to come by ( especially if you play on hard). So if till now I was missing “sulfur” or “gems” in the previous versions, now I’m constantly missing blood crystals. And since this resource is used everywhere ( from upgrades of all of your first tier buildings, to building anything more than tier 2 in the castle, it’s in pretty high demand!)

Next, the graphics. They’re OK-ish overall.

We have incredibly detailed units on the field of battle, nice effects overall.

The downside: the art direction is all over the place, and nowhere near as good and consistent as in Heroes V...

Yes, I know, there a quite a few people who found the look of Heroes V quite disappointing, but at least the art direction was consistent and relevant. In heroes VI, you have overly elaborate units, to the point where they all look the same / almost similar. The inferno units all look the same... the Castle basic unit (when upgraded) looks more bad-ass than the Paladins from HoMM II.... All in all... every game in the series thus far has had that “je ne sais quoi” that when you quickly scanned the battlefield, you automatically knew the rank and power of every unit, even if you hadn’t encountered it before ( and that was a great design feat)... but, alas, that is no more... not only have the units been homogenized in terms of stats, now you can’t even tell them apart by merely looking at them.

Oh, yeah.. what the fuck is up with the undead and toxic green? Is it some sort of new standard nowadays that anything undead should look like something of of Chernobyl? I mean.. I get it if the necromantic magic has some sort of greenish hue to it, and thus the lower tier undead creatures get those fluorescent clouds around them (denoting the fact that they're controlled by a more powerful being, etc), but in this fucking game, EVERY goddamn Necropolis creature either gets a green cloud around or fluorescent , toxic green crystals embedded in the armour. If you upgrade it, then it has more of those crystals. Even if it's a vampire or a lich (creatures that supposedly have free will). And the upgraded versions are freaking covered with those crystals from head to toe, in a toxic green, fluorescent symphony of goo. FUUUUU!

Multiplayer - wise... I’ve played a few matches and I must tell that everything is INCREDIBLY out of balance.

We’ve decided to play with the “hard” rules in effect: pretty big neutral packs and scarce beginning resources. Given the fact that everything is so costly, and that weekly growth of creatures is extremely low, the game boils down to trying to lose as few creatures while capturing the most. And that favours castles such as the Knights and Necros immensely ( because of units that can heal / and resurrect ). Inferno is one of the hardest castles to play, just because of that.


More to come after I play some more.
 

Storyfag

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The H6 version of the Ring of Vitality recently made me laugh. It gives +1 hit point to all creatures. Just like in Heroes III, I hear you say, just one less than in Heroes V... Except the fucking Skeletons of H6 have 30 hp while in Heroes III they have 6, making the ring five times less effective. What, didn't the artifact designers know what the creature designers were doing?
 

Padre

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You expect too much.

I already stated that heals are making this game boring. Couple that with too much HP on virtually everything (but it's mostly noticeable in the core tier) and your game is getting too long just because battles are slow and uninspiring.

Inferno has it's own set of problems because of lackluster units, low growth and shitty racial ability ( lucky or fumble hits, like, really? )
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
I used to post at Celestial Heavens and one guy posted an uber rant that I just :lol:

http://www.celestialheavens.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12440&start=0

This particular paragraph seems like Best Thread Ever material:

Did you know that statistically, humans are outnumbered about 10 million to 1 by ants? Do you fear ants? Do you think you could be killed by 30 starving rats? Units are not equal, that’s part of life! In the fantasy world, Halflings and gremlins are much, much weaker and afraid of dragons which can squash them as easily as humans squash ants. You need a strong hero with good artifacts to lead them to kill dragons! It is natural for a Heroes V Cyclops to be intimidating to goblins and be able to eat them with ease. Why should you be able to kill a champion unit with just a week’s production of core units?
 

Padre

Liturgist
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Felt weird reading it.

He raises some good points and then 1 sentence later goes full derp like with those ants or paladin casting fireballs.
 

Ermm

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Darskin said:
Game is pretty decent, but not for what it is :smug:


Oh, and I fucking hate the voice acting in the campaigns :x

Yes, the trend to include the voice acting, because it's a trendy thing, is stupid. Like, the shit that they sometimes say in some JRPG'S, doesn't sound so bad when you read it and kind of like makes you think you read something like a comic book, but the voice over seems like they hired some hack dubbers from 4kids, and then you feel like you are watching a bad morning's cartoon. Just sad.
 

Ermm

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Serious_Business said:
xemous said:
all homm games are boring and repetitive i never understood the appeal

Seconded, my good man.

However, I am very angry about this, dumbing down, decline of the gaming industry, decline of humankind, everybody is a retard, why am I alone on Earth, cries of rage, etc etc

Games are not dumb. Poor starving developers just try to appease the biggest audience possible, while at the same time keeping hardcore fans happy.
 

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