HoI2: Vichy France?

[dagorkan]

Browsing through the scenarios this looks like a nice sized nation (2 research teams, 30 IC) and could be a good challenge... Aren't any guides on the Paradox wiki. Wondering if anyone tried it? Is it possible to defect to the Allies or is it hard-coded against? Eg, if I joined the allies and Britain liberated a French territory would it go to de Gaulle or to me?

Historically Petain was Roosevelt's preferred partner and possibly could have done a deal - there were reportedly covert diplomatic links, but it blew up when the governor of Algeria was assassinated by a Free French agent.

I've only played games as Canada, Greece and South Africa so far which all played pretty much by the book, except Greece which stayed 'neutral' (got into wars with Germany's and proxies but without managing to be accepted by the Allies).

 

[Araanor]

1. It's always possible to join any alliance with any country, but the success depends on your relations, your ideology and more factors.
2. Vichy France only has national provinces over south france, so there's no way you're getting the rest of France from the Allies. You can view national provinces by getting into diplomatic mode. They are marked by a round black mark.

Anyway, defecting to the allies will immediately put you at war with the axis. Which is to say, you're screwed, if they aren't already invading Germany.

I think some of the better choices in HOI is Italy, China and Japan. Not overly strong, but good potentials for action and expansion.

 

[dagorkan]

1. It's always possible to join any alliance with any country, but the success depends on your relations, your ideology and more factors.
2. Vichy France only has national provinces over south france, so there's no way you're getting the rest of France from the Allies. You can view national provinces by getting into diplomatic mode. They are marked by a round black mark.

Anyway, defecting to the allies will immediately put you at war with the axis. Which is to say, you're screwed, if they aren't already invading Germany.

I think some of the better choices in HOI is Italy, China and Japan. Not overly strong, but good potentials for action and expansion.

OK, well I tried this out and it's not very good.

1/ Several of France's best historical military leader's don't exist or have screwed up stats (no General Juin, no de Lattre de Tassigny)
2/ The IC distribution is messed up, you get a total of 2 IC from the whole of the colonial empire and about zero resources, so once you lose mainland France you can't produce anything or even feed your troops or redeploy troops you already produces (TC overlood). On the other hand, de Gaulle who seems to have only a portion of Western Africa has 30+ effective IC.
3/ As you said, no 'cores' in occupied France. Also if some of your colonial provinces are taken then liberated by Allied powers (who you've joined) they'll keep them for themselves, unlike Free France which gets them automatically.
4/ Joining the Allies after refusing to hand Algeria over to Italy makes the AI completely broken. You are at war with all the Axis powers and have a huge foothold in continental Europe but nobody bothers to land any troops, I was holding off Germany for two weeks and all I saw were a couple of South African and other minor power bombers using my bases.

 

[spacemoose]

the AI is broken with a human vichy player because the developers never expected anyone to actually want to play vichy france

 

[dagorkan]

the AI is broken with a human vichy player because the developers never expected anyone to actually want to play vichy france

Why not? I can play Belgium and Uruguay which both have strategy guides available.

1. It's always possible to join any alliance with any country, but the success depends on your relations, your ideology and more factors.
2. Vichy France only has national provinces over south france, so there's no way you're getting the rest of France from the Allies. You can view national provinces by getting into diplomatic mode. They are marked by a round black mark.

Anyway, defecting to the allies will immediately put you at war with the axis. Which is to say, you're screwed, if they aren't already invading Germany.

I think some of the better choices in HOI is Italy, China and Japan. Not overly strong, but good potentials for action and expansion.

What's more interesting, should I play Nationalist China or Communist China?

 

[Araanor]

Vichy isn't particularly interesting in HOI.

Both chinas are probably interesting. I've only played with the nationalists and I have that game going still. Either may be pretty hard if you're not experienced with the game. Awful tech, bad tech teams, low infrastructure and weak leaders (if plentiful). It's different to the european theater. I ended up in a war with both the different warlords and Japan at the same time. Kept me on my toes.

They get pretty awful tech teams, so playing with tech team annexation (added in Armageddon) is fun.

 

[dagorkan]

I was also considering Sweden, but I heard that they are screwed as soon as they join any side being such a large (thus indefensible country). Tried them?

 

[Araanor]

I did once. They have decent tech and other stuff, but you can't go far with that IC. I think I annexed Norway and Denmark. I joined the axis. Sent down some bombers, later a few divisions. I got bored and quit. It might be more interesting with IC and tech team takeover.

If you're looking for challenges, it may be a better idea to try out mods.

EDIT: Post of the beast.

 

[Fez]

Communist China is not a bad choice to play a role that is initially small and struggling but has the potential for conquest. You get the fun of fighting more than one enemy.