Heroes of the Storm

[Eyestabber]

Wait WUT!? HoN still exists!?? Lulz

I've a backer account full of bells and whistles on that game, simply because I bought it way back when for 20 or 30 dollars "one time charge". Yeah, right...

No HoN died with f2p .S2 management are retards and deserve all that is happening with them.

What exactly IS happening to them? Do tell, I'm curious since I've left HoN after getting a Dota 2 beta invite and never looked back. That engine never felt "right", despite the mechanics being there. Hated the art too. But enough about me: what happened to S2 games and HoN!?!?

 

[Sykar]

I have not played HoN in a while. Did not want to invest so much time to get good in it. HoN and Dota have a steeper learning curve than LoL and HotS imho.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Game is dead in the west and Strife(their new LoL clone) is hilariously bad and nobody is hyped( http://steamcharts.com/app/339280 ),they cut 30 people last year too.Going the way of the dodo.

 

[Bester]

while HOTS looks like Unreal 4 engine HD textures.

The textures are handpainted, so it doesn't. UE4 is famous for its realistic rendering, but handpainted is another style entirely - they use only diffuse maps, while UE4 realistic rendering requires to use diffuse, normal, specular and gloss maps.

I would commend HOTS for a neat character design and beautiful animations though.

from Dota 2. They did not have to pay a team of designers to create the game (as it's really just DotA: Source)

Nevertheless, they spent 5 years making dota 2. Also, they monetize dota2 very well, just differently. I would've loved to see that approach in Hots. Hots inherited its main flaw from LoL - there are no hats in the game. Nothing tangible, nothing to trade, nothing to bet on games, nothing to buy/sell, nothing to be happy about like when you suddenly get an item, etc. Skins are good and well, but it's an inferior invention.

 

[Eyestabber]

HoN's death was something awfully predictable, since the game was just a DotA clone with some minor twists here and there. It was pretty obvious that the REAL DotA would be that game's natural predator and it totally WAS. LoL at least managed to find it's own audience, but HoN was a shameless cash-in. Still, I don't regret paying for a small "DotA fix" untill the real thing came along.

 

[Bester]

As for locked abilities: REALLY!? I mean, you have to get to Lvl X or pay Y dollars to be able to E people, else you can just Q and W them!? REALLY!??!?

That's not how it is at all, you got it wrong.

You have a choice between 2 different ults on all heroes at level 10. At other levels, you can chose to upgrade any of your skill in a unique way, meaning if you don't take a range upgrade to a spear ability at level 4, you'll never be able to pick it up again, since you'll have a choice for different upgrades at other levels. This allows you to build a character very differently, depending on the team composition and the general situation.

Untill you play 2 or 3 games on a hero, some upgrades are locked. This is to allow you to familiarize with the hero. However, when you reach level 15 (or was it 25?) on your account, you unlock all upgrades on all heroes and don't have to worry about it anymore. 15th level is acquired by playing 2 days or so. 25 requires a week.

And paying doesn't change anything, you can't unlock them earlier by paying.

 

[Eyestabber]

Ahn, that's ok then. But it still feels like hand holding.

I preffer DotA's "sink or swim" aproach, but to each his own, i guess.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I wonder why S2 Games didn't just make another Savage game. Savage and Savage 2 were cool and to be honest they were very identical to MOBAs, but in 3rd person. Didn't know about Strife and I can't stop laughing at them for even attempting to make a casual MOBA after how badly HoN bombed. These cucks don't learn. They are gonna go out of business and they have no one else to blame but themselves. Should've continued to try and refine that Savage formula, because it was, at least imo, and still is, somewhat unique.

 

[Eyestabber]

no one else to blame but themselves.

If you're one to believe in rumors, you COULD say they also have Icefrog to blame. I've read some horror stories about how Icefrog worked at S2 and then fucked them over and gave tons of code to Valve when he came on board. Old story, but do some googling and you will find a blog post from a Valve employee blowing the whistle on Icefrog's "work ethics". Fun drama stuff...

EDIT: here's all dem sweet drama: http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com.br/ (text is in english, don't worry)

 

[Bester]

HoN's death was something awfully predictable, since the game was just a DotA clone with some minor twists here and there. It was pretty obvious that the REAL DotA would be that game's natural predator and it totally WAS. LoL at least managed to find it's own audience, but HoN was a shameless cash-in. Still, I don't regret paying for a small "DotA fix" untill the real thing came along.

By the way, do you think dota2 found its audience? The number of players stopped growing, the game is staling.

- To pros, LoL is more appealing because LoL pays better.
- To noobs... in the same way that LoL is more newb-friendly than dota2, Hots is even more so.

LoL and Hots have a future, dota2 doesn't seem to have one, despite its deep mechanics. The reason is simple - a game lasts too long, the amount of heroes to chose from is discouraging, and the graphics are somewhat to be desired. Even dota1 looks more beautiful than dota2. LoL basically took dota1 graphic style and improved it over time. Hots got a variation on the wow style, which is proven to be successful. Dota2 invented their own style and it's not so good. And this shit is as important as game mechanics.

It's not like dota2 will die, but it's reached its peak. From now on, it'll only sink. Unless someone turns it around via sdk by making a more dynamic mod.

 

[Eyestabber]

Bester

You are probably right. We will have to wait and see.

LoL always had a bigger playerbase than DotA 2, so that's not really a surprise. But I think DotA 2 will survive, if only because of the "REAL heir to the MobA genre" thing.

 

[Sykar]

HoN's death was something awfully predictable, since the game was just a DotA clone with some minor twists here and there. It was pretty obvious that the REAL DotA would be that game's natural predator and it totally WAS. LoL at least managed to find it's own audience, but HoN was a shameless cash-in. Still, I don't regret paying for a small "DotA fix" untill the real thing came along.

By the way, do you think dota2 found its audience? The number of players stopped growing, the game is staling.

- To pros, LoL is more appealing because LoL pays better.
- To noobs... in the same way that LoL is more newb-friendly than dota2, Hots is even more so.

LoL and Hots have a future, dota2 doesn't seem to have one, despite its deep mechanics. The reason is simple - a game lasts too long, the amount of heroes to chose from is discouraging, and the graphics are somewhat to be desired. Even dota1 looks more beautiful than dota2. LoL basically took dota1 graphic style and improved it over time. Hots got a variation on the wow style, which is proven to be successful. Dota2 invented their own style and it's not so good. And this shit is as important as game mechanics.

It's not like dota2 will die, but it's reached its peak. From now on, it'll only sink. Unless someone turns it around via sdk by making a more dynamic mod.

Dota has my all time favorite hero though: Invoker. Played him to death in the original Dota map in WC3.

 

[Daedalos]

God so many LoL and Dota shills in this thread.

FANBOYS, please get the fuck out of this thread, it's clear you don't like the superior game. Quit being butthurt about it, and go to the LoL and DOTA threads.

You are unwanted here.

 

[Hobo Elf]

no one else to blame but themselves.

If you're one to believe in rumors, you COULD say they also have Icefrog to blame. I've read some horror stories about how Icefrog worked at S2 and then fucked them over and gave tons of code to Valve when he came on board. Old story, but do some googling and you will find a blog post from a Valve employee blowing the whistle on Icefrog's "work ethics". Fun drama stuff...

EDIT: here's all dem sweet drama: http://icefrogtruth.blogspot.com.br/ (text is in english, don't worry)

I remember some controversy now that you mention it, but it's been a while. I'll have to read the link you provided once I have the time to do so. That said, disregarding if Icefrog dicked over S2 or not, they themselves are still the at fault for going at the MOBA market in the first place. Perhaps less so with HoN since it came out at the time when the market was on the verge of exploding with all sorts of pale imitators, but not quite there yet, whereas Strife and its failure is completely their own fault and stupidity for trying to make another appealing casual MOBA in an oversaturated market.

 

[abija]

HoN's death was something awfully predictable, since the game was just a DotA clone with some minor twists here and there. It was pretty obvious that the REAL DotA would be that game's natural predator and it totally WAS. LoL at least managed to find it's own audience, but HoN was a shameless cash-in. Still, I don't regret paying for a small "DotA fix" untill the real thing came along.

Neah, HoN would have been fine if they had proper management. There were some wall of texts on reddit if you are curious about all the dumb shit they pulled.
Not to mention, the big one, there's a chance icefrog would have continued with hon and maybe dota 2 wouldn't even exist.

The reason is simple - a game lasts too long, the amount of heroes to chose from is discouraging, and the graphics are somewhat to be desired. Even dota1 looks more beautiful than dota2. LoL basically took dota1 graphic style and improved it over time. Hots got a variation on the wow style, which is proven to be successful. Dota2 invented their own style and it's not so good. And this shit is as important as game mechanics.

Just NO. Dota 2 is the best looking game in the genre by far, from engine capabilities to art and execution. Environment, hero models, spell effects, proportions all look better in dota.
About the style, they might have invented it but the map looks an awful lot like first Diablo 3 act 1 images shown at Blizzcon in 2009 or smthing.

As for the amount of heroes... how is it any less discouraging to have them behind a fucking paywall?

 

[Bester]

from engine capabilities

That's interesting, could you elaborate on that?

 

[Great Deceiver]

HoN's ridiculous position in the market can only be attributable to S2 themselves; they came up with a horrible monetization model that they later revoked, Maliken (the owner, which not coincidentally is also the name for a hero in the game) is a complete asswipe, etc. Just bad business decisions and weak management; blaming Icefrog is pretty laughable.

I agree that Savage was a cool concept and I played a lot of S2 back in the day. They really should have gone back to that instead of trying to ape LoL for the nth time.

re: the whole Dota 2 and engine debate, I think Source is great, but remember Source 2 is coming, and that means all sorts of possibilities for the game, from easier custom maps to improved assets/effects/everything. The game is peaking at 800k users a day, that's a very healthy number and I think there's a lot of possibility for growth. A couple of months every year the numbers are artificially inflated due to seasonal circumstances (TI crowd, special events, etc.) but it's been consistently increasing; I don't see where the doomsday predictions are coming from at all. Maybe twitch viewer numbers, but who gives a shit about that?

 

[GreyViper]

Regarding TLV the mines map is ideal for them, when camping entrances for escapes and one farming skulls inside. But yeah heavy intense micro at start, when you get the skills it gets better.

 

[Metro]

God so many LoL and Dota shills in this thread.

FANBOYS, please get the fuck out of this thread, it's clear you don't like the superior game. Quit being butthurt about it, and go to the LoL and DOTA threads.

You are unwanted here.

Please do not outshill the king of shills, Brenner.

 

[GreyViper]

Bit off topic, but how long will Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 be free to play? Back to topic, my god that grind to lvl 30, just to PVP.

 

[Metro]

Do you mean how long until they become F2P? Never? There's no monetization system tied to them anymore.

 

[sbb]

a very long time

 

[GreyViper]

Do you mean how long until they become F2P? Never? There's no monetization system tied to them anymore.

Odd thing is, I haven't spent any dime on Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2. Yet when I downloaded them yesterday and tried them out they ran with no issues. SO is this some kind of trial thing?

 

[Metro]

Starter editions, you're capped at like... level 20 for D3 and SC2 I guess you can only play a couple campaigns missions or something.

 

[abija]

Deep game, much pro scene: http://www.dailydot.com/esports/heroes-of-the-storm-etc-bot/

TLDR: pro game, player disconnects, bot gets 3 in mosh pit wins team fight.