Heroes of M&M 6 beta

[Darth Roxor]

So Darth Roxor is the new Skyway?

Of course he is. Because your favourite new consoletard game is obviously not total shit. You probably have to play it with a xbox gamepad, it magically turns less shitty on the spot.

And 'waaaaaaaah' you probably have to play it more because it gets 'better' just around the moment I stopped at, huh?

The Codex is going to love this game, sounds like RPGOTY.

 

[Grunker]

He sure is passive aggressive that's for fucking damn sure. Did someone take a leak at your dinner or something? Was just a joke mayn, chill. From what I've seen the other posters write, this game is complete shit, no doubt (which is also the prediction I've expressed in previous threads on the subject).

 

[Darth Roxor]

In related news, Grunker fails his saving throw against recursive irony.

 

[Shannow]

So Darth Roxor is the new Skyway?

Of course he is. Because your favourite new consoletard game is obviously not total shit. You probably have to play it with a xbox gamepad, it magically turns less shitty on the spot.

And 'waaaaaaaah' you probably have to play it more because it gets 'better' just around the moment I stopped at, huh?

The Codex is going to love this game, sounds like RPGOTY.

*g*
It's so hard to get, because there are so many cases in which it's true

 

[JarlFrank]

That town screen looks horrible. It's so fucking minimalistic, what happened to the beautiful art of the previous games? Even the rather lacklustre town screen of 4 looks amazing compared to that shit.

Features (and especially removal of previous ones) sound banal shit boring, might torrent it to try but will stick to 3 and 5 for multiplayer hotseat fun.

 

[Grunker]

In related news, Grunker fails his saving throw against recursive irony.

He has been known to do that once in a while.

 

[ZbojLamignat]

Wait, wait, wait... initiative and initiative bar are gone?

V was an uninspired copy of III with less stuff, atrocious art direction, no mood and one good idea - the initiative. And they removed it for the sequel? Why? Was any explanation given? Or is the idea of initiative simply not awesome enough?

 

[Darth Roxor]

Wait, wait, wait... initiative and initiative bar are gone?

No, no, initiative is still in.

V was an uninspired copy of III with less stuff, atrocious art direction, no mood and one good idea - the initiative.

One good idea... that started in IV

 

[Grunker]

V was an copy of III with the same generic fantasy, more stuff, atrocious art direction, no mood (which doesn't really matter in my strategy-game) and a few really good ideas implemented horribly in IV but perfected in V - the initiative, the active hero. And, it had a few pretty neat small evolutions of three - the "double-upgrade"-system comes to mind. It also features the best skill and level-up system of any Heroes yet, as well as the most interesting and well-balanced mechanics in each race (the rune-system of the dwarves, the changed spell-system of the orcs, the re-worked Necromancy).

Fixed. Was a long fix.

 

[ZbojLamignat]

Must've misunderstood Jaedar's post then.

I'm kind of inclined to try it out myself, but whenever I see the town and recruitment screens and other next gen stuff I get a strange vibe that this is trying to be some kind of browser-fb game.

Grunker - well, you're talking about the last standalone expansion which did incline the game and was in fact pgood. Still, the maps were horribly small (the amount of them was small too) and there was nothing to do on them = boring. I can also go on with magic system being an abortion when compared to III and balance still being mostly f.up, but that's not really a place for that.

Also, the fact that I percieve II as the most gorgeous game ever with III not being far off makes the horrible looks of V feel as a pretty strong decline.

 

[Jaedar]

Wait, wait, wait... initiative and initiative bar are gone?

No, no, initiative is still in.

It might be(tbh, I didn't look) but the initiative bar is gone. All units get one turn per round(barring morale, which now triggers before you act). Hero can, as in 3, cast its spell or make its attack at any time during the round.

 

[Grunker]

Wait, wait, wait... initiative and initiative bar are gone?

No, no, initiative is still in.

It might be(tbh, I didn't look) but the initiative bar is gone. All units get one turn per round(barring morale, which now triggers before you act). Hero can, as in 3, cast its spell or make its attack at any time during the round.

The last bit is good. The fact that heroes were subject to different spots in the initiative-bar was quite imbalanced in #5, especially in the Duel Mode which was otherwise quite decent.

 

[a budda]

Hero can, as in 3, cast its spell or make its attack at any time during the round.

The last bit is good. The fact that heroes were subject to different spots in the initiative-bar was quite imbalanced in #5, especially in the Duel Mode which was otherwise quite decent.

that's the one and only incline over 5...

tbh, it looks more like alpha - lots of balancing and tweaking needs to be made
the system is good (like you could break it) - they added magic defense, initiative is in, some skills can boost it, but here's the problem - you need ridiculous amounts of exp to get them
two single player maps i finished with 7lvl despite crushing everything possible - that's 6 skills - imagine that in h3...
and spells are skills too, so...
there's a fuckton of artifacts but pretty shitty ones, and now the game badly needs loads of scrolls - which is nice, but if they leave like 3 on a map...

the game looks salvageable but they need to do a lot still
what is beyond repair is city development, and you can't forgive them the city screen - it just proves they had no idea about heroes
"unique" buildings? what a pile of shit, some useless ones in h3 were much more useful...
the maps look nice - lots of nice details - need better textures though

all in all, worth torrenting (provided you don't expect anything close to 3), but it will need a good map generator with lots of customisation options or you're left to play with user-made xxxxxxls with lots of stuff in them, atm mediums are simply unplayable

 

[a budda]

ok, finished multiplayer map twice and must say it gets interesting

interface and customisation options (barring stupid skip and defend on the left instead right) are pretty nice

the infamous "convert" option makes it a different game - i mean totally different
seems you need to go for it from day one

you can choose the speed of levelling which provides for completely different replays of each map

it's like someone described some vague idea of a heroes game and the other person wrote it, and was from japan...
seriously...
but i might be tempted to say it may be even a good game, it's just not heroes3, but a pretty refreshing view of the homm system

where's warlock and wizard

 

[Marobug]

So basically it's HoMM5 repackaged with a 6 in the name instead of a 5 ?

All the issues you pointed out were in the last game already. Not a terrible game but nothing special either. I hate to play the old school retard but Homm3 and 4 were by far the best ones imo, at least I could play them more than 10 minutes in a row without getting bored and quitting.

 

[ZbojLamignat]

II is a very good game. It has the best looks, mood and a very good economy (something that is mostly broken in later games unless you play on impossible and start with 0 everything) - things like gold mines actually matter a lot and you have to consider your spendings, even on normal.

Many people hate IV, for me it's simply meh, but you have to remember that in initial release it was in fact bugged to all hell and didn't even have multi.

 

[thesheeep]

Somewhere in the thread it was pointed out that all heroes progress equally and that there are only 2 or 3 types of them.

THAT IS WRONG!

Instead, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXfI5S8Els

As is explained there, in contrast to previous games, you do not have a choice between 2 (or were it three) skills at level up. Instead, you get an ability point you can spend AS YOU WISH, limited by a skill tree, which looks similar to Diablo 2 one, being broader and with less depth.

Given, you still have that Might/Magic classification of skills which looks awkward, but its not even close to stuff like FF progression

 

[Grunker]

Does this mean they've finally done away with the fucking random skill-choices? That is the first bit of VERY good news.

 

[Jaedar]

Somewhere in the thread it was pointed out that all heroes progress equally and that there are only 2 or 3 types of them.

THAT IS WRONG!

Instead, watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqXfI5S8Els

As is explained there, in contrast to previous games, you do not have a choice between 2 (or were it three) skills at level up. Instead, you get an ability point you can spend AS YOU WISH, limited by a skill tree, which looks similar to Diablo 2 one, being broader and with less depth.

Given, you still have that Might/Magic classification of skills which looks awkward, but its not even close to stuff like FF progression

Right, except what you fail to realize is that you are not in any way limited by a skill tree in any shape or form. Any hero can pick from any of the three trees. Your hero specialization only seems to affect what stat boni you get when leveling up. Getting rid of random skill choices by all means, too bad they opened up for ridiculously minmaxed characters by doing it. Prepare to see a lot of guys using nothing but mass haste/slow for ridiculously low costs.

 

[CrimsonAngel]

The more i hear of the game the more i am warming up to it.

Now some things still looks bad, but i might actually get it

 

[Darth Roxor]

See? I told you this would be called rpgoty soon enough.

 

[thesheeep]

Right, except what you fail to realize is that you are not in any way limited by a skill tree in any shape or form. Any hero can pick from any of the three trees. Your hero specialization only seems to affect what stat boni you get when leveling up. Getting rid of random skill choices by all means, too bad they opened up for ridiculously minmaxed characters by doing it. Prepare to see a lot of guys using nothing but mass haste/slow for ridiculously low costs.

If I got the video right, a might hero cannot advance to the max level of magic skills. Or something like that. I was distracted by the funny accent.

Well, all useful characters in any Heroes game so far have been minmaxed as good as the randomness on level up allowed.
It just doesn't make any sense to make a hero with wide spread skills. Maybe with a focus on two things, but not more.

See? I told you this would be called rpgoty soon enough.

It's still a strategy game!

 

[Jaedar]

Yeah, but previously the randomness has been a limiting factor: good luck getting that skill with 2% chance. Base your minx/max around that and you are boned. Not here. Get whatever skill you like at almost any level you like.

Dunno about the max level thing, didn't watch the video, just played the beta a bit. Didn't seem to be a restriction, though I did not play long enough to actually reach a level where I could check proper. But I don't recall the tooltips saying I could not take stuff.

And spreading skills is the only thing that will make sense. Pop-quiz, what's best, one spell or +10% attack to all your units?

 

[Excommunicator]

As much as the random skill selection could be annoying when planning a character, other posters here are right in saying that it prevented the absolute min-maxing, and it introduced some uncertainty and a limited need to adapt your tactics to the available selection.

Given that Heroes has the pretense of strategy rather than role playing, I think the random skill selection added more to the game than it took away. If anything, I would like to see an expansion of this element to force the player to sacrifice and adapt more to any given situation.

 

[thesheeep]

I don't think that's true.
Even with random selection, there was only a limited amount of abilities that could pop up for each type of hero. Or "unfitting" skills had a far lower chance to pop up on level up, not sure here.

In any case, you'd still reach highest nature magic with your nature hero, highest damage bonus with your knight hero, etc. Just the time at which you reached those may have varied a bit, but not enough to force you to adapt to anything. I don't think I was ever unlucky enough to not end up with the abilities I wanted to focus on.

And this little gambling is now gone, which fits the game better, IMHO. I like randomness in character building in my roguelikes, but not exactly in my Heroes. It never really bothered me too much, but I'm still glad it's gone.

Though the skill window... or any window in there looking exactly the same (including the town screen) still turns my stomach around. God, I so hope this is somehow moddable, but I fear it's not.