Hearts of Iron 3 at Armchair General

[Burning Bridges]

<strong>[ Review ]</strong>

<p><a href="http://www.armchairgeneral.com/hearts-of-iron-3-pc-game-review.htm">Armchairgeneral.com</a> has <a href="http://www.armchairgeneral.com/hearts-of-iron-3-pc-game-review.htm">reviewed</a> Hearts of Iron 3, giving it a meagre 70%</p><blockquote><p>Passed Inspection: </p><blockquote><p>Good strategic level of war with enough operational level to make it fun; division-building with mix-and-match brigades is a major step forward in the genre; tech tree covers wide breadth of era tech advancement but stays simplistic enough to grasp by most players. Industrial production, research and development work well. Unit graphics are passable, and map is easy to read and understand.</p></blockquote><p>Failed Basic:<strong> </strong></p><blockquote><p>Even at version 1.3, game is often buggy and crashes. Odd diplomatic processes result in strange alliances and unexpected results that will ruin a game. AI still needs tweaking on production, diplomacy and technology to create a historically accurate and balanced simulation. Heavy system requirements require a fast computer, fast graphics card and lots of memory. Supply system is confusing and poorly implemented.</p></blockquote></blockquote><p>the reviewer, who called himself a "long-term Paradox junkie", comes to this pretty disenchanted conclusion:</p><blockquote><p>Overall, <em>HOI 3</em> is a disappointment in its current state. It is not a bad game, per se, but the differing parts of the game itself do not work well together. The diplomatic and military AI is nearly useless in single-player mode. Strange actions by the AI and an overly difficult supply system further hamper a rewarding game experience. Given Paradox&rsquo;s past track record, I suspect that the game will emerge to be an excellent simulation around patch 1.6 or 1.7 &hellip; just about the time <em>Hearts of Iron 4</em> comes out. </p></blockquote><p>In the end that seems to be right the thing to say. We all know by now in which condition games of high complexity, especially strategy games, are directly after release, and yet, when HOI3 came out, we all ran into the shop like little children, and bought it. Am I right?</p><p>Spotted @ <a href="http://www.armchairgeneral.com/">Armchair General</a></p>

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

The tech system is total fail.

Look, it works by cycling techs, the top X many get researched all at the same rate, and when a tech is completed it goes to the end of the queue. What happens is that you will need almost all techs but not to the same degree, and so will put nearly all in your cycle, but you will only want to prioritize a few. So you end up constantly needing to move techs up from the bottom to the top of the queue for your research to stay efficient.

Awful design. Stupid unnecessary micro-management but then it makes aspies feel intelligent.

 

[kris]

The tech system is total fail.

Look, it works by cycling techs, the top X many get researched all at the same rate, and when a tech is completed it goes to the end of the queue. What happens is that you will need almost all techs but not to the same degree, and so will put nearly all in your cycle, but you will only want to prioritize a few. So you end up constantly needing to move techs up from the bottom to the top of the queue for your research to stay efficient.

Awful design. Stupid unnecessary micro-management but then it makes aspies feel intelligent.

That is hardly the problem with the Tech. I obviously would chose every new tech that is up for research and change if something is of priority. I see no more micromanagement than before. Hell in hoi2 you had to choose both a tech team and the technology, which was more work than in hoi3.

The problem is the leadersystem and the theoretical knowledge. in how that makes the stronger much stronger and the weaker much weaker. the only solution they have made for this is stopping tech rushing for the big nations.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I only played around a bit with a press copy but I found the presentation of army stacks unacceptable. I don't know what kind of short time memory the typical HOI player has acquired, but for me it's simply too taxing to memorize hundreds of nato symbols by endlessly clicking through spreadsheets. It is one thing to create a system that is processing a lot of data, but you also need to think how to present the information. One of the first things the player needs to know is how much military strength is available, and where. Since there aren't any visual cues, all I can do is investing tons of paper, time and memory. The 3d units didn't help at all since they give practically identical information for almost every different stack.

The end result is a game that appears much more complex than it actually is.

 

[Casus belli]

That is a problem. The NATO symbols system is really incomplete in that game, or insufficient. It's not possible to zoom out and survey your armies, making plans, because there is no way to know (AFAIK) how many divisions you have there, just by looking.

 

[Shuma]

I was one of the early purchasing fools, and this makes the 2nd time in a row I've been burned by a Paradox game (LOLROME). My fondness for HOI2 led me to think these guys make really great games and that supporting their efforts was worthwhile. I've come to question that conclusion greatly now, and probably will always wait for the first expansion to any of their games I buy.

It's too bad cause HOI3 was a game I really wanted to like (reminded me a little of MOO3 at release) and Paradox is a company I want to support.

On another note, I don't fully understand the change in realism that Paradox is going for. People expect a grand WWII game and they certainly expect to be able to influence the outcome of that war. They've taken things to this weird extreme where almost anything can happen. Most of the fanbase had a hard time choking down the transition from scripted realism to event-driven sandbox style gameplay.

I'm not sure it's in the best long term interests of the franchise, but I guess we'll see where it goes. I do love that they've implemented a proper chain of command, and I like the idea of being able to delegate military command to the AI if you like. Build-a-division is certainly a nice addition as well.

Presentation definitely needs improvements. Shoot, even HOI2 had stacks with division numbers on them. Okay, SU has 57 divisions here, I have 39, I can hold. Naval combat is STILL lacking. They've had years to tweak things and make it right. Still the same problems surfaced.

And the weather system. WHO GIVES A CRAP? What a waste of prgoramming effort that was. It's cute that they thought it mattered that the global climate should be accurate and be determined by these complex mathematical computations. Of course, they completely failed and every sea province was drenched in perpetual storms, but even if they succeeded, who cares? A simple system like HOI2's was perfectly functional and served all the purposes it needed to: it snowed in Russia in the winter, it was hot in the deserts, it elsewhere rained occasionally, and that's about it. Why bog the game down with needless complexity? Sure, I can check the exact temperature and barometric pressure in Mogadishu, but what the fuck does that matter to my Panzers rolling through? All I care about is if it's raining or not, assuming I care to check the weather at all. Instead we get the CPU-paralyzing mess that added literally nothing to gameplay.

TL;DR: HOI3 weather system was dumb.

 

[kris]

I played a little some day ago before my computer crashed. The weather system was what I noticed. Apparently we never have summer where I live.

 

[Leapchild]

If you're up for a game just join my hamachi network

Name: Cyborgsniper
Pass: 123

(1.3 patch)

 

[GarfunkeL]

No surprise sheek is spreading more unfounded butthurt

The end result is a game that appears much more complex than it actually is.

Not really. Zoom close enough and the symbol transforms into a stack and you can accurately see the size of it. Enemy stack visibility depends upon your intelligence.

It's not possible to zoom out and survey your armies, making plans, because there is no way to know (AFAIK) how many divisions you have there, just by looking.

Uh, you have the hierarchy tool, you know. Select army from there, the map will show you where that army is. You can select army corps and map will show you where the corps HQ and its divisions are. Would you like huge numbers to float over provinces instead?

the transition from scripted realism to event-driven sandbox style gameplay.

They did the same already with EU3 and it was clear from the start that they were planning the same thing in HoI3. Don't be surprised. I don't like it myself but it wasn't a surprise.

Naval combat is STILL lacking. They've had years to tweak things and make it right. Still the same problems surfaced.

Not really. They made a new system because the one from HoI2 was horribly mangled along the years. Fans clamoured for carrier air units as separate units and that is what we got. It also changes naval combat mechanics. Take a CA+DD TF against a BB+CL TF and you'll have a very satisfactory naval combat.

And the weather system.

Luckily Johan has admitted as much.

There is going to be patch 1.4 and then there will be an expansion. Read more at Pdox forums:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457690

and

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459552

 

[Burning Bridges]

Uh, you have the hierarchy tool, you know. Select army from there, the map will show you where that army is. You can select army corps and map will show you where the corps HQ and its divisions are. Would you like huge numbers to float over provinces instead?

It's obvious you played too much HOI and too few other games otherwise you wouldn't be asking these questions.

 

[Shuma]

sheek? butthurt?

I posted legitimate criticisms of the game. Some positives, some negatives, and I left out the biggest reason why I don't currently play the game.

Performance.

It still sucks, and from the admittedly quick look I took at the 1.4 patch links you posted, Paradox agrees. I will definitely try it out again when 1.4 gets put out. I loved HOI2 and I want to love HOI3, but so far it's been a drag to play.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Wasn't talking about you Shuma Hobbit Lord of Mordor = Sheek

It's obvious you played too much HOI and too few other games otherwise you wouldn't be asking these questions.

Very much possible. TOAW3, HoI3, SP:WAW/MBT/WW2 and JA2 are basically the strategy/war-games I've played extensively for the last two years (or so). In others I've only tried demos. In which way should I widen my horizon?

 

[Burning Bridges]

Ah, nevermind. When I tested HOI3 I found no other option but to scribble down all my divisions, that's all.