Haven't played a strategy/tactical game in a while, go modern or classic?

[Jocund]

I have a strategy/tactical itch that needs scratching, and I've been away from these types of games for a good while (Civ3 I believe is the last game I played).

There are games considered to be classic in the genre that I've never played. I'm wondering, in choosing a game to play, if there's anything modern that's come out that's widely considered a must-play that I should dive into, or if I'm better off visiting a classic for the first time.

I know it's a wide genre, with differing opinions, so I'll try to give some examples of games I've really enjoyed, and what I've enjoyed about them, to give you an idea of my tastes.

1) Final Fantasy Tactics - I know it's more of a (J) RPG, but the combat system was very enjoyable to me, with the mix and match skill and class system and turn-based combat. If I had to say a dislike, is that it sometimes felt a bit too small scale (5 party on map max), and I sometimes wish there were a more grand campaign that required using multiple parties or more units.

2) X-Com: UFO Defense - The combat, again, obviously. The base management aspect was okay, but definitely underwhelming compared to the combat. I liked how (if you managed to keep them alive) soldiers would improve and rank up, and the threat of permanent death (although sometimes the deaths can be frustrating if they feel unpreventable). Biggest dislike would be the clunkiness of some aspects of the game (where can I throw my flare? I'll just click a bunch until it works), and the interface. Also, I swear they give you new recruits with terrible stats on purpose.

3) Heroes of Might and Magic 2/3/4 - The map exploration with heroes/parties is great, as well as fighting neutral monsters and being able to capture resources / level up and equip your hero / learn spells with your hero based on buildings. I know 4 isn't the most popular of the series, but I really enjoyed having the hero be a controllable, movable unit on the battlefield. Dislikes - the maps for combat were a little overly simplistic/small, which is really both a like/dislike, because the combat can be quick. Despite being able to have multiple parties, the unit recruitment limit always made me tend to have one good/big party, and parties of mostly heroes running around collecting stuff and scouting, rather than multiple fully equipped/capable parties.

4) Civilization 3 - More of an overarching strategy that didn't always involve combat (founding cities, managing income/corruption, trading). Dislikes - No tactical combat, the combat in general was "stack of death" moving across the map, the other options for winning the game that didn't involve combat could kind of feel underwhelming.

Without wanting to create a massively long text, I'll just cut it short there. I like fun combat mostly, preferably turn-based, and having a more overarching grand campaign/sense of progression/strategy level is great.

Some classics I've never played, but have thought about: Master of Magic, Jagged Alliance 2, Age of Wonders (any of them), X-Com: Terror from the deep. The only thing I'm worried about playing these games is battling the potentially outdated/clunky interfaces and mechanics.

I haven't kept up with new releases really at all, so I couldn't say I've been thinking about any of them, but I'm hoping maybe there's something that has become a new or modern classic.

So, any thoughts on whether I should go classic or modern?

 

[agris]

Endless Legends is a current Strategy-board darling. Take a peak.

 

[Damned Registrations]

You have to play Master of Magic. Probably my favourite strategy game of all time. It has aged quite well and never been outdone.

 

[Eirikur]

You might want to give Darkest Dungeon a try. It's only in early access, but runs very smoothly and has top ratings. High playability, I strongly recommend it.

It's called a roguelike turn-based RPG, and has many strategic elements. You rank up your heroes like in X-Com, and upgrade your hamlet in-between missions. It's Ironman-only, so there's no possibility of savescumming. Dead is dead.

Lovecraftian to the extreme.

 

[Modron]

Definitely go with the classics, though some newer games might be worth your time as well eg Blackguards (the first one), FTL (is a decent time killer if you can tolerate the RNG) and Xenonauts (do add the community mod for lots of different maps though) are pretty good for what they are. Don't know if you played the Silent Storm series (+Hammer and Sickle) but those are pretty fun. As far as console S-rpgs go the Front Mission series is worth playing.

 

[whatevername]

Play Master of Orion 2, Jagged Alliance 2, Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic (the AI sucks balls so only maps that give it huge advantage are playable).
Avoid like plague: HMM6, AoW3, newXCOM, Xenonauts

 

[Declinator]

Definitely play Jagged Alliance 2. Combat is better than X-Com in almost every way and the interface is much better though still not exactly great. There is still some counter-intuitive stuff but not much of it is of great consequence. Also, don't play with 1.13 mod first time even if some will inevitably recommend it. Many of its "improvements" are rather questionable.

Silent Storm is the clumsy and awkward cousin of JA2: perfectly playable and fun for the most part but few would pick it before JA2. One thing it does better though is that it shows the chance-to-hit numerically.

If you want something on the scale of Civilization but with combat that is much more interesting than simply stacks of doom, take a look at Hearts of Iron 3. Heavy on the micromanagement side and has a slightly steep learning curve so if that is not your cup of tea you might want to stay away.

Avoid like plague: ...newXCOM

New X-COM is a solid game even if it is a stripped down, simplified version of the original. Few would argue against the new version having the superior interface.

 

[spectre]

Some classics I've never played, but have thought about: Master of Magic, Jagged Alliance 2, Age of Wonders (any of them), X-Com: Terror from the deep. The only thing I'm worried about playing these games is battling the potentially outdated/clunky interfaces and mechanics.

Even if you didn't really like Civilization 3, Civ 4 (especially when modded) is much better. One of the best things about it is that attempts to fix (and succeeds to a degree). It's probably the high point of the series, easily rendering previous iterations obsolete. Civilization 5 tried to fix the formula a bit more and managed to break it. While the result can be a step in the right direction if you're into more tactical combat, the biggest flaw is that the AI cannot work it very well. It's also more boardgamey than previous iterations.

Terror From the Deep is basically Ufo Defense, more of the same thing but harder and reskinned for a fresh look. The interface is the same, so it shouldn't be a problem.
If you were to choose something newer, both Xenonauts and the newXcom by firaxis are inferior propositions, but one cannot really be picky in this genre.
SEXCOM feels like a watered down version of the original with flashy graphics, and Xenonauts feels closer to the original.
They get a little bit better when modded, Long War is the mod of choice for SEXCUM, whereas for Xenonauts it seems to be the Community Edition mod, but I haven't tried this myself.

Jagged Alliance 2 is a fantastic game and you should go and play it now. While I've heard complaints about the interface, I honestly don't think you'll have any problems if you read the manual. It's one of the rare gems born of luck, opportunity and genius.
There's plenty of threads around if you want some beginner info on the game.

If you liked Homm 1-4, nothing wrong in playing Heroes of Might and Magic V. Be sure to grab the expansions. It won't in any way surpass HommIII, but it can be fun.

From the stuff that wasn't mentioned, you can look at the UFO series: Aftermath, Aftershock and Afterlight. These are real time with pause tactical games that are totally unrelated to Xcom Ufo Defense.
They are pretty story driven, but ypu don't have to play them in order (the first game is pretty clunky and it tries to ape xcom but doesn't really succeed).

In a similar vein, 7.62 High Caliber uses similar real time with pause controls in a modern setting. It's a pretty buggy game, but has redeeming features.
The unofficial mod has some terribad writing, but fixes the game a bit.

Silent Storm series is great too, especially the physics engine was pretty amusing for its time. Hammer and Sickle is not for everyone in that it's closer to an adventure/rpg hybrid, but the first two games are good fun.

It also seems that Total War games slipped under your radar. Just pick your favorite period and give it a go. Shogun and Medieval Total War were the first games and arguably best in the series, the campaign map was simplified which made it easier for the AI to work.
If you absolutely need the eyecandy, Shogun 2 is a good starting point. Medieval 2 has some great mods, so does Rome (it's also a better game than the recent Rome 2). Napoleon is also ok (much better than the broken mess that is Empire). I heard Atilla is ok, but didn't have the chance to test it.

 

[Ulminati]

Xenonauts is a good game and a way better successor to XCOM UFO Defense than nu-XCOM will ever be.
Wargame: Airland Battle or Wargame: Red Dragon are solid RTSes.
Jagged Alliance 2 is best game ver, so if you haven't playing it goes without saying.
For 4xes, Civilization 4 (with expansions) is probably the best Civ to date. It's almost as good as Sid Meiers Alpha Centauri, which you should totally play if you haven't.

 

[pakoito]

Endless Legends is a current Strategy-board darling. Take a peak.

 

[Jocund]

Thanks for all of the suggestions. It sounds like there's a lot of mixed feelings of modern games (xenonauts, endless legends, new x-com) all in this one thread alone, while classics are still universally recommended (which I guess shouldn't be surprising).

At the moment it sounds like I'll probably look into JA2, but I'm definitely still open to more recommendations/discussion if anyone has more. Endless Legends looks interesting in particular, are there any more opinions on it?

 

[Ulminati]

Endless legends looks nice, but the AI is awful and it gets boring really fast

 

[Norfleet]

This is a genre that really hasn't made any significant advancements over the years. It's never been sensitive to MUH GRAPHICS, and mechanically, there hasn't really been much in the way of improvement, which is why the oldies are still the goodies.

 

[Raghar]

There are games considered to be classic in the genre that I've never played. I'm wondering, in choosing a game to play, if there's anything modern that's come out that's widely considered a must-play that I should dive into, or if I'm better off visiting a classic for the first time.

Well great games if you can get them for free (and they should be released as noncomertial freeware) are
Fantasy Wars, then Elven Legacy. Play them in order. (Also small hint. Either play for gold medal, or loot everything. The middle ground is the hardest, and you'd seriously weaken yourself by not looting something just to end one turn faster when it would be bronze anyway.)
Eador - Genesis. It's a game for long evenings. Either play on skilled or expert. I found removing starting money boost on lower difficulties works better than playing on higher difficulties.

Amazing game, you can play as evil and old faith, and you'd get unique units for each 4 combination of alignments.

 

[Shevek]

Xenonauts is a good game and a way better successor to XCOM UFO Defense than nu-XCOM will ever be.

Naw, I have been playing the new X-Com with the Long War mod and its pretty sweet. I agree its lacking in vanilla but Long War makes it a worthy successor.

 

[ArchAngel]

Xenonauts is a good game but also flawed. UFO breaches get old after a while (not enough variance) and there is no Psi powers for your team. And learning curve for Air combat for new players is huge. I quit my first try at the game because of Air Combat (I never played previous Xcom games for that part of the game) and only got back to it after watching a guy stream his play on Twitch and seen how he manually handles it.

And I also want to mention Master of Magic, this is game many have tried to make new versions of but none have fully succeeded so far. I think Endless Legend comes close in overall gameplay and fun factor but it has no spells. Others failed in basic stuff like UI or fun or just overall not a good game (like Fallen Enchantress or Worlds of Magic - although WoM is still being fixed).

As for Age of Wonders 3 vs older games, I had more fun with 3. I know it has no siege play but overall I found it a fun experience. But I only played campaign missions in them and I am only comparing those.

Xenonauts is a good game and a way better successor to XCOM UFO Defense than nu-XCOM will ever be.

Naw, I have been playing the new X-Com with the Long War mod and its pretty sweet. I agree its lacking in vanilla but Long War makes it a worthy successor.

Long War is cool but it still has no dread of Open Xcom Impossible Ironman play where you make a wrong step and your soldiers get one shoted left and right
Or groups get blown up by Alien Grenade. Or my favorite, downed Crysallids only sleeping and then on some turn suddenly get up and proceed to one shot near by Xcom troops and turning them into zombies. No other Xcom game gives you a bigger sense of dread at that point.

 

[adddeed]

Jagged Alliance 2?

Dont, unless you're some sort of gun junkie and LOVE long tactical battles. I personally got tired of it. Its a great game though.

 

[MilesBeyond]

For fantasy TBS, you've got a few choices. The AoW series is one of my favourites, and IMHO 1, SM, and 3 are all different enough that they're all enjoyable independent of one another. AoW 1 is more Warlords-y, AoW SM is more Master of Magic-y, and AoW 3 is kind of its own thing (though probably more on the MoM end of the spectrum). Of all the TBS 4X games I've ever played, AoW 3 is probably the one that has the best tactical combat, and the earlier installments are pretty up there as well.

Civ IV is the best Civ, hands-down. Civ 3 was a pretty rough game largely because it introduced a lot of concepts in a way that was pretty unpolished (Great People, Golden Ages, etc). Civ IV took Civ 3's additions and ironed them out into sheer beauty, as well as making all sorts of other awesome changes in its own right. After two expansions Civ 5 has become playable and even enjoyable at times but it has got, simply put, the single worst AI of any strategy game I've ever played. No question, no contest. If you see it on sale you'll probably get your money's worth from the game, but don't expect an amazing game.

Eador is pretty solid. I'd recommend Eador: Genesis over Masters of the Broken World though. MotBW is basically just Genesis but with better sound, better graphics, and more bugs. It's not that Genesis is significantly better so much as that it's a fair bit cheaper with no real downside unless you can't stand lower production values.

Elemental is notoriously bad but its second expansion pack, I think it's like Fallen Enchantress Legendary Heroes or something? The fact that they dropped the name of the game from the expansion pack should tell you something. Anyway, it's decent. Nothing amazing, but probably better than Civ 5 IMHO. If you've exhausted your other options and are still craving more it's not a bad choice.

GalCiv 2 is up there as well. Think Civ in space. Unlike Civ, it has really solid AI - some of the best I've ever seen in a TBS, as a matter of fact. They recently released the 3rd one but I haven't played it myself.

Speaking of Civ In Space, have you played Alpha Centauri? If not, then play it. Just play it.

I still haven't gotten around to playing Endless Legend but apparently it's top notch as well.

Heading back to the early-mid 90s now...

The Simtex games are legit. Some of the most horrifically flawed AI of any TBS game (but hey! Still better than Civ 5) but nonetheless an absolute blast to play. To this day, Master of Orion and Master of Magic cast immensely long shadows over scifi and fantasy 4X games, respectively. MoO 1 and 2 play fairly differently. 2 is a bit more Civ-like, so if micromanaging is your thing you'll probably prefer it. If not, you may find yourself enjoying MoO 1 more. Though they're packaged together on GOG so it may not really matter. Just avoid MoO 3 like the plague.

Lords of the Realm games are pretty rad. They're kind of like the precursor to the Total War series, in some ways. Games about small-scale feudal management that hinge on a razor's balance between economy and military. Whether the first or second is best depends on your perspective, but again - they're packaged together. Also like MoO, the third one is absolutely abysmal.

The Disciples series is fun for a bit. They're very simple, but that's not always a bad thing. Goodness knows that after ten hours of working on a dissertation, playing a slightly more mindless game can be a bit therapeutic. The combat and economy are pretty limited, but most of the game's appeal comes from levelling up your soldiers along different upgrade paths. Once again (sing it along with me!) the third installment is not worthwhile.

Similar to Disciples in some ways, but with an emphasis on tactical combat rather than strategic building, is a free indie game called Battle for Wesnoth. Definitely worth getting because, I mean, it's free. If you like FFT and similar games you should probably check it out. Way more emphasis on the tactical end of things than the RPG development, but it's still there and crazy fun.

Finally, there's an old game called Imperialism 2. Think of it... Think of it like if Civ and Europa Universalis had a baby. Yeah, think of it like that.

I'm sure I'll think of more later, but those are some games that come to mind off the top of my head.

 

[Suicidal Meat Slapper]

I know everyone else here has spoken of this game, but honestly, Jagged Alliance 2 still remains as the epitome of strategy gaming. The combat is engaging, addictive, and quite challenging, even at the later levels of the game. The AI keeps you on your toes while the player characters (mercenaries) are what really give the game its spirit by way of superb writing and the fact that it contains the best voice-acting I've heard in any game.

Silent Storm, while bugging, provides a very close experience to JA2 and many of the gameplay aspects remain unchanged.

Darkest Hour: A Hearts Of Iron game is a mod-turned-standalone of Paradox Interactive's Hearts Of Iron II. While the AI is questionable at times and your allies are usually worthless, it is worth checking out if you've played other Paradox games and are interested in the years from 1933-1963. There is also an abundance of mods that can greatly expand replay value while offering many more options to take during that time period (USA becomes fascist, allies with Hitler, and invades/annexes Mexico while the UK coups Japan and brings them into the Allies)

In case you haven't played it, X-com Apocalypse is highly recommended. While it was released years before it was planned to be completed, Apocalypse has much to offer in its unfinished state and provides an intriguing and unique experience if you can get past the first few hours and the game's difficulty curve. Also, the team who brought OpenXcom are currently working on OpenApocalypse which will open up mod support and a chance to create the game it was meant to be in the first place

If you're a fan of Warhammer 40k, also make sure to check out Chaos Gate. It takes many of the elements of the X-com formula and mends it with the Warhammer universe along with limited units, strong map design, an interesting story, and one of the best soundtracks put to gaming.

Master Of Orion 2 needs no introduction and is the greatest 4-X TBS made. With endless replay value, the game is Civ in space that comes without the bullshit that infests most Civ games. Diplomacy is more reliable, the technology tree is great, and combat can be won with the use of massive dommstacks. The Very Difficult Choice (VDC) mod fixes most issues that had existed in the vanilla game along with the improvement of all mechanics that existed in game.

UFO: Aftermath is also recommended if you can stand real-time with pause. The story, while cliched, is told well and creates an imposing atmosphere. With the combo mod, it comes out as on the of the better strategy games after Jagged Alliance 2. However, don't go in expecting another X-com because the two games are mutually exclusive when it comes down gameplay and Aftermath's base management and air-combat are both lack-luster.

 

[pakoito]

No love for Fall from Heaven 2 and its modmods? They took Civ IV and made it into an awesome fantasy game with lots of races and quirky mechanics. They even tackled the endgame by ending a doomsday clock.

Dominions 4 is still king on mechanics tho, but its strategic layer is lacking.

 

[ArchAngel]

Someone ban this fool! (or at least delete his post)

 

[Baron Dupek]

spectre

In a similar vein, 7.62 High Caliber[....]
The unofficial mod has some terribad writing, but fixes the game a bit.

I strongly disagree. It feels like writing have more style than almost every game, I ever played.
Unless you have allergy to cheese and like modern writing (which sucks in 99%, p.bland).

 

[Jimmious]

Some classics I've never played, but have thought about: Master of Magic, Jagged Alliance 2, Age of Wonders (any of them), X-Com: Terror from the deep. The only thing I'm worried about playing these games is battling the potentially outdated/clunky interfaces and mechanics.

Just play JA2 bro. You know nothing about tactical games without this experience

 

[spectre]

spectre

In a similar vein, 7.62 High Caliber[....]
The unofficial mod has some terribad writing, but fixes the game a bit.

I strongly disagree. It feels like writing have more style than almost every game, I ever played.
Unless you have allergy to cheese and like modern writing (which sucks in 99%, p.bland).

Biggest problem was that it stood out like a sore thumb. There was no mistaking when you were entering mod territory.
I agree that at least it had "some style" and I can stand a bit of cheese, but that thing was simply trying too hard. I can take a barf joke or two in my military-themed game, but ffs, it gets old when repeated for the fifth time in a row.

 

[MilesBeyond]

No love for Fall from Heaven 2 and its modmods? They took Civ IV and made it into an awesome fantasy game with lots of races and quirky mechanics. They even tackled the endgame by ending a doomsday clock.

Dominions 4 is still king on mechanics tho, but its strategic layer is lacking.

FfH 2 is something I have yet to be able to really get into and enjoy just because the AI likes to spam trash units and as a result the game gets ridiculously bogged down towards the late game. The mod itself is really cool, but... it just becomes soul-crushing towards the end.

I know people like to say long AI turn times come with the 4X territory but they really don't, you know? Long AI turn times is usually a product of poor AI optimization, rather than the fact that the AI has a lot to process. It's like... I once had a rack-mounted effects unit. It was bizarrely unresponsive and would randomly turn off for no real reason. I opened her up, and the problem wasn't something with faulty wiring or that the process was too complex. The problem was that I guess to piece it all together someone had left glue all over the place.

That's what 4X AI is often like. You take a game with bad AI or long AI turns and it's usually not because the game is simply too complex to allow for good, fast AI. It's because everything's all over the freaking place. It's because some guy was designing the AI and then he quit to become a lumberjack but he didn't leave notes before he quit so when the new guy was brought on he had this AI already partially in place but no idea what direction it was heading in and there's not enough time left for him to redo the AI from scratch so his best bet is to do something new and kind of try and fuse it with the old stuff and then they're getting really close to the deadline and the AI still isn't done so they bring on a third person to help the second one but the second one works in the LA office and the third one works in the Philly office and they never actually connect.

tl;dr usually if a 4X game has really long AI turns it's not because it's so complex, but rather because the AI is being put through a crapload of useless tasks, e.g. it might just be programmed to do something like "If Wheat is within borders, build Farm on Wheat" but because of the way things are worded it'll scan its territory for Wheat every single turn, even if it hasn't expanded its borders. That alone isn't going to have a noticeable impact on turn times, but combine it with a million other similar things and it sure as hell will.

Add to the fact that AI programmers probably aren't going to have the time to do extended playtests, and the people who are hired to playtest the game will probably just say "Oh well, 4X games are like that, right?" and you're left with... yeah.