Baldur's Gate Has anybody ever tried Melirinda's Icewind Dale II mod?

[Andyman Messiah]

This "female gamers like The Sims" thing is interesting to me, because I have no idea where these female gamers are or where to get ahold of them. 66'6% of all the female gamers I know, which are about two and a half outstanding women, play The Sims mainly to create dysfunctional families and watch it burn. As far as I can tell, there's no difference whatsoever between male and female gamers.

The Witcher is great fun, but it's also one of the most "over-manliest" games I've ever played. It's basically a story about the knight moving from town to town, slaying the dragon, rescuing the princess and receiving a blowjob for his troubles. It's manly romanticism pure and simple. If I have to use a word, it would be cute. Squeaking beds are obviously The Witcher's equivalent of trains driving into tunnels. I don't have a problem with it. It's the actual courting that gets a little uneasy when you think about it. Maybe I'm a pussy, or a dick (considering that I have one), but I felt somewhat uncomfortable courting the different women in The Witcher. Now, Triss is a very intelligent woman using sex as a way to manipulate Geralt (who really isn't the sharpest tool in the box, btw). Shani, well, the first time you sleep with her is after a party when you're both drunk. Friendly <s>fire</s> fucking, I suppose. But apart from these main cast women, the rest are mainly there to "show their appreciation" and, of course, the big, great male is happy to be of service. Manly romanticism.

Eh.

If I have to choose between The Witcher overly sexualised men (or MAN, I guess) and women and Merlinda's, or any other modder's efforts; then I would choose The Witcher. Modders and some game developers, cough cough, take the most pretentious stance when it comes to romances. It's true that it feels like you're having a whole bunch of butterflies in your stomach when you're in love and stuff, but to put that in writing, without actually writing it, is a challenge and I don't see too many handling this well. Avoiding pretentious bullshit at all cost should be the first step to writing a romance. Keep it simple and gradually work up the butterflies. Triss and Geralt is a cute, simply, believeable romance.

The first step in any romance isn't complicated. You walk up to a chick, compliment her tits and buy her a drink. She'll rip your nuts off but goddamn did you make an impression or what?! I'm ranting and I'm tired so I'm trying way too hard to be funny right now. Let's break it off.

The end.


Watch out for my upcoming romance mod for Fallout 3, btw. Here's a snip:

"Your hair.... like glimmering gold.... like the piss in my sack!"
"Oh, [PLAYER NAME]..."
"Wait a while. Gotta take a leak."

 

[1eyedking]

which are about two and a half outstanding women

wat

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Watch out for my upcoming romance mod for Fallout 3, btw. Here's a snip:

"Your hair.... like glimmering gold.... like the piss in my sack!"
"Oh, [PLAYER NAME]..."
"Wait a while. Gotta take a leak."

Don't forget about stat checks:
"[Intelligence] Hmmm... I think I've figured out where I'm supposed to put my cock."

 

[1eyedking]

Don't forget about stat checks:
"[Intelligence] Hmmm... I think I've figured out where I'm supposed to put my cock."

Immediately followed by "Wow, you really are smart as they say."

 

[Andyman Messiah]

which are about two and a half outstanding women

wat

Bad joke. Frog-edda-buddit.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

What the...? 40% of gamers are female?

Where the hell are they at? The Sims?

Some observations from what little experience i have with female gamers. Note that those may not be a perfect rendition of ALL female gamers, but only of those i have encountered so far.

Both the Graphic Adventure and the Myst-Like Adventure communities have a very important amount of girls, in a couple of online comunities reaching an equal or almost equal proportion of both genders. I also remember there being a good amount, but much smaller than in the previous ones, of girls in the Space Combat scene, and i actually know one IRL (one of my best friends' sister) that can kick my ass in anything that involves flying a starfighter, newtonian or not. I also know from my P&P RPG group several who like games in the style of Space Colony and Startopia, and also Bioware and/or Bethesda games. From the comunities of those two later companies it seems they have a greater amount of females than other kind of games, but not so much as the Adventure genres. Based on some horrible experiences back when i was young and wapanese i can also say there is a bigger amount of girls interested in JRPGs than in WRPGs, i would say because the "Japanese" kind of storytelling.

Curiously, they do not seem to like "those boring number crunching cRPGs" or games that have a lot of non-abstracted blood and violence. They seem to favor games focusing in storytelling and problem-solving, and games that have exploration of detailed locales as part of the gameplay, like in the Myst games for an example. For a pointer about observed likes and dislikes, the day i suggested running a D&D saga i was almost banned from my own P&P club.

So you are not going to get any girls in the Codex, other than the odd exceptions. That girl who likes Space Combat and Bioware games actually lurked around here for a while, by my insistence, and thinks you are bunch of jerks and retards.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Watch out for my upcoming romance mod for Fallout 3, btw. Here's a snip:

"Your hair.... like glimmering gold.... like the piss in my sack!"
"Oh, [PLAYER NAME]..."
"Wait a while. Gotta take a leak."

Don't forget about stat checks:
"[Intelligence] Hmmm... I think I've figured out where I'm supposed to put my cock."

Then there's a perception check to complicate matters. Once you get her naked, willing and bent over your desk (which will require extensive ragdoll physics modding on my part): "[Perception] TWO HOLES!! AY CARAMBA!!"

 

[Andyman Messiah]

bunch of jerks and retards.

We're men! We're men in tights!

I don't care if we scare people away, regardless of gender. Mainly because I honestly hope no one sets out to meet their beloved on a fucking message board, but also because I'm so honest I might as well be a jerk.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Once you get her naked, willing and bent over your desk (which will require extensive ragdoll physics modding on my part)

A Strength check should be there, IMO. If you critically fail you accidentally drop the girl, she breaks her neck and dies. You can do her anyway, but it will reduce your Karma.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

bunch of jerks and retards.

We're men! We're men in tights!

I don't care if we scare people away, regardless of gender. Mainly because I honestly hope no one sets out to meet their beloved on a fucking message board, but also because I'm so honest I might as well be a jerk.

Ah, sorry about that. I was not trying to insult anyone, just offering an anecdote in case "Where are they all?" meant "Why do we just have two or three in here?!"

 

[Andyman Messiah]

Once you get her naked, willing and bent over your desk (which will require extensive ragdoll physics modding on my part)

A Strength check should be there, IMO. If you critically fail you accidentally drop the girl, she breaks her neck and dies. You can do her anyway, but it will reduce your Karma.

You can bypass this by using a combination of great science and repar to program your robot butler to hold her up for you. Of course, the consequence being that you either have to listen to his jokes, drink a lot of water or even get a haircut without knowing about it. (Are you aware of what goes on with your hair when you're fucking? I'm not.)

 

[Andyman Messiah]

bunch of jerks and retards.

We're men! We're men in tights!

I don't care if we scare people away, regardless of gender. Mainly because I honestly hope no one sets out to meet their beloved on a fucking message board, but also because I'm so honest I might as well be a jerk.

Ah, sorry about that. I was not trying to insult anyone, just offering an anecdote in case "Where are they all?" meant "Why do we just have two or three in here?!"

I don't really know what you're apologizing about. We're cool. I'm not insulted. TAKE THAT APOLOGY BACK, FOOL! :wink:

edit: Seriously, most of the Codex come off as jerks and retards because, well, we have a lot of jerks and retards. I myself go back and forth between good poster, jerk and retard all the time. It's hardly no surprise why people don't think of the Codex as a magical mushroom kingdom full of wonders. It's sad, really.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

What the...? 40% of gamers are female?

Where the hell are they at? The Sims?

Some observations from what little experience i have with female gamers. Note that those may not be a perfect rendition of ALL female gamers, but only of those i have encountered so far.

Both the Graphic Adventure and the Myst-Like Adventure communities have a very important amount of girls, in a couple of online comunities reaching an equal or almost equal proportion of both genders. I also remember there being a good amount, but much smaller than in the previous ones, of girls in the Space Combat scene, and i actually know one IRL (one of my best friends' sister) that can kick my ass in anything that involves flying a starfighter, newtonian or not. I also know from my P&P RPG group several who like games in the style of Space Colony and Startopia, and also Bioware and/or Bethesda games. From the comunities of those two later companies it seems they have a greater amount of females than other kind of games, but not so much as the Adventure genres. Based on some horrible experiences back when i was young and wapanese i can also say there is a bigger amount of girls interested in JRPGs than in WRPGs, i would say because the "Japanese" kind of storytelling.

Curiously, they do not seem to like "those boring number crunching cRPGs" or games that have a lot of non-abstracted blood and violence. They seem to favor games focusing in storytelling and problem-solving, and games that have exploration of detailed locales as part of the gameplay, like in the Myst games for an example. For a pointer about observed likes and dislikes, the day i suggested running a D&D saga i was almost banned from my own P&P club.

So you are not going to get any girls in the Codex, other than the odd exceptions. That girl who likes Space Combat and Bioware games actually lurked around here for a while, by my insistence, and thinks you are bunch of jerks and retards.

Sounds about right, though I'm surprised at them being into Space Combat. Didn't think it'd have enough fairies.
Why do only men have good taste? Why am I not gay? I wish I was. It'd be fun. Minus the sodomy.

 

[MetalCraze]

Watch out for my upcoming romance mod for Fallout 3, btw. Here's a snip:

"Your hair.... like glimmering gold.... like the piss in my sack!"
"Oh, [PLAYER NAME]..."
"Wait a while. Gotta take a leak."

Don't forget about stat checks:
"[Intelligence] Hmmm... I think I've figured out where I'm supposed to put my cock."

Then there's a perception check to complicate matters. Once you get her naked, willing and bent over your desk (which will require extensive ragdoll physics modding on my part): "[Perception] TWO HOLES!! AY CARAMBA!!"

[Strength] I can hold you without my hands, baby!
*Strength check failed*
*Groin crippled*

 

[Wyrmlord]

Seriously, Lestat, that was brilliant.

 

[Lesifoere]

Melirinda is a problem for me as a designer and as a female gamer. If guys had as much disdain for playing a game that forced you to play the opposite sex as she does, I'd find that abhorrent.

I find her abhorrent in any case. It's as if she's trying to justify every single stereotype about women who happen to game, ever.

While I can understand her motivations, her takes on certain topics and the militance of her stance I think is... I hesitate to use the word damaging, but possibly what I mean is somewhere in there.

Yes, my feeling exactly. It's frustrating, and I do not want to be lumped into the same category as this woman in any sense whatsoever.

...I admit, I don't really want to play The Witcher because the extent of interaction with women in it seems to be "Hi Gerhalt I would like to jump on your penis now" - that just seems dumb, even more dumb than it is sexist. I think wanting good character interaction is something that ANY player - regardless of gender or, you know, whether or not you're Melirinda - is not unreasonable to want or even - to a certain degree - expect.

Meh, I've no idea why this impression is so rampant. I'm female, I played TW, I enjoyed it; I know a few other women who share the opinion--hell, you can find a surprising number of female posters on the official Witcher forums. The thing is that the Witcher gives full attention to fleshing out the main female characters, making them their own people with their own motivations and personality. Triss, Shani, even Adda (the last of which treats Geralt as a potential sex toy; Triss uses sex--among other things--to manipulate him). Let me tell you something. Bioware's female characters, I find, are a lot more insulting. I assume you have played their games. Have you tried the female romantic interests?

- Bastila. The romance dialogue is nothing sort of embarrassing, and you're basically flirting with an immature, emotionally stunted child. She becomes completely codependent on Revan for everything and unloads her issues on him as if he were her therapist.
- Aerie. MY WINGS, MY WINGS. Emotionally damaged little girl who needs the Bhaalspawn's manly, manly shoulders to cry on.
- Jaheira. Her husband, the love of her life, is barely cold and already she's coming on to your Bhaalspawn. Nice. Despite being much older than the PC, despite being a woman of experience and strength, she too melts into pink goo and loses all trace of emotional independence.

And on, and on. Personally, I'll take the Witcher's main female characters any time, any day. Yes, the minor NPCs tend toward "hihi let's have sex nao", but the game's being faithful to the books, and the books owe very much to sword-and-sorcery traditions which are, yes, rife with misogyny. But they also have female characters able to stand on their own feet, from Ciri to Yennefer to Nenneke. CDPR is obviously aware of this, which is why Triss and Shani get the kind of writer attention they have. All the sex with female NPCs can be avoided, and interaction with them certainly goes beyond the insertion of cock into cunt.

 

[Worm King]

If you ask Siegfried to attend the party, he and Shani will kick it off. In the end, I think, they agree on a date. I was hoping that Shani would get away from Geralt but apparently nothing further happens between her and Sieg. What I hate about romances is that every single companion must fall in love with you. Why couldn't there be a companion who finds your advances repulsive and has her eye on someone else from the party?

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

If you ask Siegfried to attend the party, he and Shani will kick it off. In the end, I think, they agree on a date. I was hoping that Shani would get away from Geralt but apparently nothing further happens between her and Sieg. What I hate about romances is that every single companion must fall in love with you. Why couldn't there be a companion who finds your advances repulsive and has her eye on someone else from the party?

Mira in KotOR 2 says you're too old for her.

 

[Jaesun]

...I admit, I don't really want to play The Witcher because the extent of interaction with women in it seems to be "Hi Gerhalt I would like to jump on your penis now" - that just seems dumb, even more dumb than it is sexist.

That's why I still have not picked up a copy of The Witcher. The thought of playing a supar horny hetero-sexual male... is just not appealing to me. I *completely* understand that IS Gerhalt personality in the books. Though *supposedly* you can ignore teh b00bie cards and the sexuality in the game, but doing so, would not really be playing Gerhalt "in character".

I'll eventually cave in, one day and buy a copy, but that day is not today.

 

[Lesifoere]

Why would you care about playing Geralt "in character"? The game offers you the choice not to play him as a horny walking penis; faulting it because you don't want to take that choice would be pretty stupid.

(Not that rejecting all casual sex would be particularly out-of-character for him. He does do one night-stands in the books, but it's nowhere as often or as obnoxious as most people think. I counted only one instance of casual sex in Blood of Elves and two in The Last Wish.)

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

If you ask Siegfried to attend the party, he and Shani will kick it off. In the end, I think, they agree on a date. I was hoping that Shani would get away from Geralt but apparently nothing further happens between her and Sieg. What I hate about romances is that every single companion must fall in love with you. Why couldn't there be a companion who finds your advances repulsive and has her eye on someone else from the party?

Mira in KotOR 2 says you're too old for her.

And then there's Mira's advice about men for Handmaiden.

And Kreia's comments for the male Exile about female party members in general.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

I suppose you can play Geralt as some kind of cool-blooded professional character instead of the James Bond I think most of us played.

Though seemingly completely random lines often lead to sex, so dodging it could be hard. One of the worst things about TW for me is that I don't like almost anything about Geralt. Especially his disinterested voice is really grating to my nerves.

 

[Annie Mitsoda]

Hm. Good points made about The Witcher.

And TRUST me, I'm not saying Bioware does romances well, oh my GOD no. The talk between Kaidan and my Commander Shepherd kept making me snicker. It was like high school romance. "Oh, Shepherd. We should go to my room. AND DO IT. It would be AWESOME. Heh. Hee."

I WANT to see a game do romance well, and I nearly had that opportunity (not on SoZ), but it was not to be. My point is they take a fuckload of time and a lot of skill to do well, if at all, and I can understand why people want them. I like compelling character interactions, and romance NEEDS to fall into that category to work well, and sadly that is something lacking with most games. Aforementioned time/skill issues, yes, but the fact of the matter is that it's lacking, and people want it, and that's justified.

I DO take offense at many things Merlindra says and does because I don't think she DOES create that in her mods - everything that I've read of the Bishop mod makes him into a romance novel stereotype with sparkling eyes and a soft gooshy center instead of actually an angry, jaded person who's lost faith in humanity and in himself. Actually making that a compelling romance would be, I have to admit, pretty interesting, but god DAMN she does not do that AT ALL.

And no offense, but you don't see a lot of female Codexers on here probably because for EXAMPLE the first time I came on here, I got the usual "pix plz" "tits or gtfo" and links to goatse.cx spammed at me - and I doubt that was a special welcome just for li'l ol me, right? It happens, many don't want to go through with that, or they create their own online communities, or join others that don't happen to be the Codex. Or many just don't join and go HAY EVERYONE I HAVE A VAGINA, so you don't even know they're female. Fuck, I was on a message board once for a full year and everyone assumed I was a dude because I had a Brak avatar and didn't go HELLO GOSH DARN I AM HAVIN MY PERIOD. We all have our own presumptions about gender and none of them are fully right for anyone.

ACTUALLY I WOULD LIKE TO ASK: compelling character interactions in games - not just romances. Where at? What game, what character, why? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Annonchinil]

I never finished The Witcher but it seemd that lust was only a motivation, it didn't really explore sexuality. And really lust in games has been done before, just with no got-to-collect them all cards.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I DO take offense at many things Merlindra says and does because I don't think she DOES create that in her mods - everything that I've read of the Bishop mod makes him into a romance novel stereotype with sparkling eyes and a soft gooshy center instead of actually an angry, jaded person who's lost faith in humanity and in himself.

It gets worse outside of the flirt pack. When she is trying to write like that.

Here's my idea of how to (accidentally in the example) do a proper romance:

Dialogue line 1 with Neeshka in the Merdelain Inner Sanctum NWN2 OC.

Point being: Don't write about it outside of the last climactic event, and keep it down to one or two lines even then.