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Harebrained Schemes General Discussion Thread

Will HBS stay on the path of the incline?

  • Yes, it will always stay on the right side

    Votes: 26 9.7%
  • For some time yes, then it will inevitably fall

    Votes: 45 16.8%
  • It already started becoming a decline

    Votes: 33 12.3%
  • It is alrady a decline

    Votes: 30 11.2%
  • It was never an incline to begin with.

    Votes: 69 25.7%
  • How the fuck could I know?

    Votes: 47 17.5%
  • kingcomrade in order to make well thought answers meaningles

    Votes: 18 6.7%

  • Total voters
    268

almondblight

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2004
Messages
2,549
Hong Kong was a good game (not great but still good).
The main problem of the game was WAY TOO MANY WORDS!
But the game still had a nice story / missions and some excellent companions (some even better than those in Dragonfall).
I am not talking about the mechanics since the whole trilogy had more or less the same mechanics.

Hong Kong was a huge decline from Dragonfall in almost all areas. I'll repost what I said before:

SR:HK is a pretty steep decline from DF: DC. Probably the biggest problem was the mission design - there just weren't any missions as good as Dragonfall’s, and there were barely any challenging fights. Dragonfall also had a decent amount of non-combat gameplay. For instance, in a single mission in DF you have a choose your own adventure type element where you're sneaking up on an employee (with skillchecks as well), then you have an office where you have to guess the password for the computer by looking at hints on the guys personal devices, then you have a dialogue with the cleaning person you have to successfully navigate to not get the alarm raised (which is more complicated than the usual "Etiquette Cleaning: Is that a model 450F broom? Awesome! You won't call security, right?" stuff you get in HK).

In HK, you're mostly just clicking on every hotspot to trigger the next event (kind of like SRR). The only exceptions to this I can think of are the broken PDA in the bonus campaign and the knapsack puzzle in the museum mission (there's also a guess the password puzzle in the museum mission, but it requires that you Google it). You also get the feeling that they were trying to do more complex things, but didn’t have the time to do them correctly. You’re left with silly stuff like walking up to a cook who doesn’t know you at all and telling them they should poison their guest for being demanding (they readily agree), or walking up to another cook that doesn’t know you at all and telling them they should help you break into the apartment of their guest because the guest is demanding (different mission; they also readily agree).

The combat was a cakewalk 98% of the time. Part of this might stem from the lack of a Very Hard difficulty mode, but it's also because less attention was paid to encounter design in general. For instance, Dragonfall used turrets well in a number of missions. I don't think they showed up in HK at all, except that you could use them yourself in one part of the bonus campaign. The only two encounters I thought were decent were the one in the lobby during the fengshui mission (if you shoot your way in and don't try to sneak through the lobby) and the final fight in the bonus campaign. Dragonfall had a number of challenging encounters, so the lack of them in HK was pretty disappointing.

The backer content is also terrible. You have a lot of runners looking like comic-con attendees, and of course they all have to be super nice people. Shadowlands in Dragonfall seemed like an online forum for shadowrunners, and in HK it seemed like Reddit.

A lot of little touches were missing. There seemed to be a lot fewer checks than in Dragonfall. Definitely more racial checks (I don't remember any in HK), but also skill checks. They barely used e-mail, whereas it was used quite well in Dragonfall (people in the hub contacting you about updates, people from previous runs contacting you to catch up, etc.). They also did away with the claim payment system from Dragonfall (not a big thing, but it was a nice touch).

As for the writing - as others have said, the quantity isn’t an issue so much as the text dump nature of it. Dragonfall had some pretty text heavy sequences (like the team meetings or the conversation with Vauclair), but I always enjoyed it. SRHK is bad because it has really boring walls of text, and there’s little interaction from your character (other than selecting one of three different variations of “go on” every few paragraphs).
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
447
There is no room in the market for a mediocre or barely good game

What. There are lot of room in the market for mediocre and barely good games. It's just a matter of finding the "audience" that "click" on the game you made.

The problem with this latest Lamlight game of theirs is the fact that its artstyle, gameplay, theme, and everything is not reaching any real audience. Then come the insane price tag for what looks like indie game quality at best and you have your product failing.
The lesson here is to not let your damn budget spiral out of control. HBS's previous successes were made on low-seven-digit-figure budgets. They spent 6+ times as much as they usually do and expected their success to scale..? Spendthrift Ebba's the one who likely deserves the brunt of the blame for this, but Wester should have done a better job of reeling them back once he became CEO again in late 2021. Cutting the cinematic trailer and using very sparse or no voice acting were very easy decisions that should have been made. Letting them have two years or cutting it just to one would have been difficult, but with the benefit of hindsight, it would have been better for Paradox's finances if they had cut out that year. Game possibly/probably would have been worse as a result, but they were looking at a money-loser regardless. Comes down to how much money you're losing.

The sad thing is that Harebrained were actually a very efficient low budget operation. They pushed out three Shadowrun games (including modding tools!) in the time it took many developers to produce one game. At the time many Codexers were impressed by this, and wished other studios could be like Harebrained.

I don't understand why they didn't keep doing it. Did they not make money, despite seeming to be quite successful on the player end? Or is this another story of bored devs leading to the collapse of a company because they don't want to do the same thing again? Although I have to question the sanity of devs who want to make something that looks like Lampfucker Lounge over Shadowrun.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...e-to-acquire-harebrained-schemes-faq.1103665/

When Paradox brought HBS this is what they said about the studio:

HBS will continue to focus on what it does best which are tactical games with rich stories.

This speaks volumes about what Paradox thinks of HBS and by extension what HBS thinks of themselves (since they would have never sold to Paradox if they didn't think everyone is on the same page).
 

Phinx

Augur
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Messages
107
So are there any worthwhile modules for the Shadowrun games? They come with a level editor after all. Someone has to have made something good with it.
You can give my UGC a crack which will be uploaded on this weekend. My first hub is currently in testing by a few people. I will be uploading the fist hub along with 3 major missions, 4 minor repeatable missions, and 3 side quests + tons of NPC's this weekend.

And as the next few sets of missions are done with testing I will releases the next set which hopefully will be in two weeks from now. I've also polished a ton of the early dialogue, as well as giving my runners all custom move sets. So best to wait for my new update, over trying my old one.

 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,845
Paradox and Harebrained are officially over https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/...attle-based-developer-seeks-new-opportunities

Paradox Interactive (Paradox) and Harebrained Schemes (HBS) – developers of the Shadowrun trilogy, BATTLETECH and The Lamplighters League – have decided to part ways on 1 January 2024. The separation is the result of a mutual agreement, stemming from each party’s strategic and creative priorities. Paradox will retain ownership of The Lamplighters League and other games developed by the studio. HBS will seek new publishing, partnership, and investment opportunities.

“Paradox has refocused its strategy towards its core niches within strategy and management games with endless qualities,” said Charlotta Nilsson, COO of Paradox. “We and HBS’ leadership have been discussing what would happen after the release of The Lamplighters League, but a new project or sequel in the same genre was not in line with our portfolio plans. Hence, we believe that a separation would be the best way forward. We’re very happy that this talented, gifted studio has the chance to continue and can’t wait to see what they will make next.”

“Harebrained Schemes will support The Lamplighters League through the end of the year while we seek funding and partnerships for an independent future in 2024," said Brian Poel, Studio Operations Manager of HBS. “Our studio mission remains the same: to make games that challenge your mind and touch your heart.”

Perhaps HBS will go crawling to Microsoft and offer to make some Shadowrun and Battletech games for Game Pass. :lol:
 

negator2vc

Scholar
Joined
May 1, 2017
Messages
314
Location
Greece
WTF??!
I thought Paradox acquired the studio. They weren't just the game's publisher.
Will HBS give back the money (~7 mil)?
 

Axioms

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
1,520
Damn I posted this a while ago in the Lamplighters thread, forgot about this one.

This is just insane stuff. What a shit company.
 

Hellraiser

Arcane
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
11,364
Location
Danzig, Potato-Hitman Commonwealth
how do you part ways with your own subdivision

Like this I guess:

404.jpg
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,530
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Corporations do sometimes spin off parts of themselves. If they don't want to deal with some part of the business anymore but the head of that division wants to strike it out on his own, a deal is made and off they go. The company I work for did this once.
 

motherfucker

Educated
Joined
Aug 23, 2020
Messages
271
I'll forever remember how in Dragonfall I got prompted for admin password and absentmindedly typed "admin" and it fucking worked. That game was full of small details like this. HK had some very interesting mission designs though, with the museum spirit and building feng shui
 

scytheavatar

Scholar
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
Messages
447
how do you part ways with your own subdivision

Presumably Paradox still owns all the Harebrained shares and anyone who wants to buy Harebrained will need to pay Paradox. But Paradox will have no input in whatever indie game Harebrained is making next.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,845
how do you part ways with your own subdivision

Presumably Paradox still owns all the Harebrained shares and anyone who wants to buy Harebrained will need to pay Paradox. But Paradox will have no input in whatever indie game Harebrained is making next.
They're not saying it's up for sale. They're saying as of January 1st, Harebrained is free to do whatever they want (which includes going out of business if they can't find someone to buy them or fund a new game).
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,654
Man, I was going to make a comment on how the latest HBS game flopped to the point Paradox was writing it off as a loss and then I came into see that Paradox has finally woken up and kicked the cunts to the kerb. Looks like there are still a few working brain cells at Paradox that the woketards have not managed to get yet.
 

bobocrunch

Educated
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
148
love when retards say shit like this not realizing the woke shit they whine about is because of paradox
 

Cael

Arcane
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
20,654
sorry not aware of who you're raging over on twitter today
Funny way of admitting you were wrong you got there. I thought it was pretty well-known that HBS went woke without Paradox ever needing to interfere. Sad to see some Weissmann cocksuckers still refusing to admit to it.
 

cpmartins

Cipher
Joined
Jan 9, 2007
Messages
535
Location
Brasil
sorry not aware of who you're raging over on twitter today
Funny way of admitting you were wrong you got there. I thought it was pretty well-known that HBS went woke without Paradox ever needing to interfere. Sad to see some Weissmann cocksuckers still refusing to admit to it.
The only thing you need to do is look at BattleTech's writing. It's horrifyingly bad. Insultingly so.
 
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