Grimoire Thread

[Zorba the Hutt]

Btw, this count also includes free keys given by Cleve (IndieGoGo, free review copies, etc)

Sure, though the campaigns had 114 + 159 backers, so pretty small impact in that regard.

 

[Zep Zepo]

New Version. DECLINE 1.2-F (Tested With Grimoire Version 1.2.0.25 R)

New in this version:
Individual toggle of skills per character. (0 locks/hides, 1 unlocks/unhides)
Warning: you can turn off skills you already know, so be careful with your 1s and 0s.
Even if you accidentally lock something, it should retain the Skill Value.

Removed in this version:
The unlock all skills toggle checkbox.

DECLINE v1.2-F
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwWbO4WjDecjRUFlM3p3VEFjS00

Zep--

 

[J_C]

He had a fun experience, but could not enjoy most of it. Makes sense?

Says the person who thinks the game is excellent but will wait for V2:

Maybe Cleve should be honest and tell everyone upfront there's a V2 coming, so people can make the same decision as you made without buying & playing half the game.

I don't know how many of them will be still alive to try V2. I mean, another 20 years is quite a long time.

 

[ThisNameIsFree]

Btw, this count also includes free keys given by Cleve (IndieGoGo, free review copies, etc)

Sure, though the campaigns had 114 + 159 backers, so pretty small impact in that regard.

We will know for sure in September (Cleve should get paid by Steam). If sales really good i suppose he will be sueing everyone.

 

[PhantasmaNL]

So around 4 k sold, which is pretty good i think.

As for the review, it is a relatively huge deal since it is a Codex review. Codex reviews have their own level of drama sometimes. I dont care about reviews personally, and i doubt many will. The Codex reviews are usually fun to read though. You can actually deconstruct a game subtly and with prestige, refraining from plebean terms like TOTALLY BROKEN, EXTREMELY DISAPPOINTING!1!1!1!, DONT BUY!111.

Also, any reviewer who thinks he is on a mission, to warn the unsuspecting buyers and make the world a better place like a lefty lunatic needs to be shunned and possibly banned.

 

[Zep Zepo]

There is one Big Butthurt Baby posting in this thread.

Protip: It's not felipepepe

Zep--

 

[vdweller]

This is one Big Butthurt Baby posting in this thread.

Protip: It's not felipepepe

Zep--

So how long until you disassemble the entire Grimoire binary?

 

[Fowyr]

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Vending tokens are properly stackable (up to 254), but when you put big pile of them into the ACME machine, you will get only 99 credits. And of course they are refunded as 99 tokens.

ACME slugs refunded back as vending tokens. Is it bug or the feature? (I have ACME service ring)

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Are (decent) guns and ammo incorporated into Grimoire? I haven't read anything about it. Is it something that could be expanded into V2 if they're not there Cleve? Guns weren't a memorable part of Wizardry 7, but I spent so much time getting my skills up for disappointment. It was a cool addition though.

You can get one in the beginning from the Sanctuary. There are many goods ones later in the game. I actually have notes to put them into a third place behind a gate but it is very hard to figure out how to get in there.

 

[DavidBVal]

They will see "mostly positive" Steam rating, which usually means that the game is kinda shitty, read some random negative reviews what the deal is and then buy the game or not. No reason to care that much about one person when the game has only 70% of positive reviews and is on the verge of dropping to "mixed" category.

I disagree. Recent dungeon crawlers like Elminage Gothic have a 61%, Monkey Tavern is descending into mixed too. The kind of people that would invest 40 bucks in a game like this, will look beyond the overall rating and put it in context. A 71% positive, given the graphics and the difficulty curve in Grimoire, is pretty awesome.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

I counted today with analysis tool, original lines of code in Grimoire written by me (not counting Shams) is 56,000 lines.

That's impressively concise. Including Shams's code, what's the size of the original codebase?

ADOM is 150k lines, DOOMRL is 159k. Dwarf Fortress was well over 300k in 2013.

And all three source code bases have substantial amounts of hardcoded data, whereas Grimoire is nearly entirely data-driven from outside editors. The game itself is merely an engine that acts on this data. Today in 2017 Michael Feathers and others are beginning to suggest that they represent a much, much higher order of coders called "table driven" programmers. In 1995 I didn't know what I was called, I simply designed it to work that way instinctively.

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

Cleveland Mark Blakemore

Vending tokens are properly stackable (up to 254), but when you put big pile of them into the ACME machine, you will get only 99 credits. And of course they are refunded as 99 tokens.

ACME slugs refunded back as vending tokens. Is it bug or the feature? (I have ACME service ring)

The 99 tokens back is definitely a bug. You should however be capable of buying anything from machines by inserting more tokens.

 

[Zep Zepo]

So how long until you disassemble the entire Grimoire binary?

Clevey-5 says "NO DISASSEMBLE!"

Zep--

 

[vdweller]

So how long until you disassemble the entire Grimoire binary?

Clevey-5 says "NO DISASSEMBLE!"

Zep--

Did he offer any endorsement for the character editor?

 

[Zep Zepo]

So how long until you disassemble the entire Grimoire binary?

Clevey-5 says "NO DISASSEMBLE!"

Zep--

Did he offer any endorsement for the character editor?

No, no tantrum from him about it yet.

Zep--

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

They will see "mostly positive" Steam rating, which usually means that the game is kinda shitty, read some random negative reviews what the deal is and then buy the game or not. No reason to care that much about one person when the game has only 70% of positive reviews and is on the verge of dropping to "mixed" category.

I disagree. Recent dungeon crawlers like Elminage Gothic have a 61%, Monkey Tavern is descending into mixed too. The kind of people that would invest 40 bucks in a game like this, will look beyond the overall rating and put it in context. A 71% positive, given the graphics and the difficulty curve in Grimoire, is pretty awesome.

Elminage Gothic sold like shit (>10k), despite going through multiple sales, and dropping price to $10. Considering the fact that even obscure, cheap Japanese indie games can easily sell >50k copies if they fall into "overwhelmingly positive" zone I'd say that mixed rating might be responsible for EG's failure.
It's unlikely that player's will investigate further since nothing about it looks appealing to someone who had never heard about it before. For a casual store browser it looks like another amateur indie crap. And if someone decides to spent his time and research Grimoire he will run into Clive raging at Felipepe's. And game creator talking shit about people who dislike it is a sign for most people that the game is shit.
On the the other hand as you've noted for some reason Steam is incredibly unforgiving for classic, first person 2D Dungeon Crawlers. They seem to be hit with shit reviews no matter what.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

But is Elminage Gothic better than Grimoire? Should I buy it? It certainly looks more presentable.

Looking at the Steam page, they dropped the support alarmingly fast, the game was released on 18 Sep, 2014 and the last update was on 30 Sep, 2014, only 12 days later. Maybe this is the real reason it got so many negative reviews?

 

[Grauken]

Its a niche game that even among RPG fans will have limited appeal, and most of the people trying it out probably didn't knew what they were getting into

Also the UI could have been better

But its definitely a great game

 

[Roguey]

Also, any reviewer who thinks he is on a mission, to warn the unsuspecting buyers and make the world a better place like a lefty lunatic needs to be shunned and possibly banned.

In the comments section of the review, I'll be sure to let unsuspecting readers know that Felipe is a poseur who pretends to like classic blobbers more then he actually does, never actually having completed one, and that he's better off sticking to hipster crap like Undertale.

 

[Snorkack]

But is Elminage Gothic better than Grimoire? Should I buy it? It certainly looks more presentable.

Looking at the Steam page, they dropped the support alarmingly fast, the game was released on 18 Sep, 2014 and the last update was on 30 Sep, 2014, only 12 days later. Maybe this is the real reason it got so many negative reviews?

Elminage's far more limited in scope than Grimoire. It's basically a Wiz1 clone with more of everything, but nothing really new.
However, within the smaller scope, i'd say it is complete. Every feature works, there is no gross broken-ness and it provides a fair (well, as fair as Wiz1 clones can be) challenge througout the game.

The fast support drop is presumably because it's a port of an older console release.
Among the various Jap-Wizardries and Wiz1 clones, it is by far the best I have played.

 

[Rpguy]

So, would you recommend a restaurant that serves good food ever even if the chef insulted you and kicked you out for suggesting the steak was too salty?

That's actually not that uncommon in the world of haute cuisine, believe it or not.

What about running around in his restaurant claiming you had overheard the chef saying the steak was too salty? That's called a Manhattan landing when you get thrown out because they make sure it is head first.

But the chef did say the amount of salt in the steak was unbalanced

You finally enter the golden era restaurant, you have been on the waiting list for years! Looking at the other customers you see some esteemed members of society. A monocoled waiter approaches. on the menu you see some stinking donuts but this is not why you came here.
In bold letters you see a 40$ steak, with a picture so juicy your mouth starts to water. You hear the chef yelling from the back "Order the steak! I have been growing this cow for years! it is much better than McDonnalds or the other shit you have been eating all those years"
You tell the waiter "steak please, I already paid 100$ years ago! here is my coupon". The minutes go by the dozens, you look at the customers, some are eating donuts, some are sleeping, then someone yells "I am done waiting, I'll go eat somewhere else!" and leaves.
You hear the chef yelling "And don't come back! this place is not for you! you don't deserve to eat this fine piece of steak! it is the greatest steak ever made!!! "
Hours have passed... the smell is great and you are so hungry! "ITZ COMING!!!" you hear from the back. time passes, you start to wonder if the steak will ever come out... why do I stay you think to yourself? then you recall the free small samples they handed outside and your resolve grows.
ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz..... "It's here mister wake up!" Can it be true? did my steak arrive? you look at the plate "ITZ HERE!" you take a bite and starts to chew... "God I am so hungry this is so great... wait is that a bug?!" you spit the steak and crash to the bathroom.
You return to your sit and call the waiter. "Sorry mister no reason to get so fussed up, here is a new steak." You take another bite, you calm down, you chew... "WTF another bug?, I demand to see the chef!", you get up and go to the kitchen and yell at the chef "This steak is horrible, I cant eat it like this!"
"Don't worry sir, here is a new steak, go back please", you go back to your sit, but your chair and table disappeared! "WTF happened to my sit?!" "Sorry sir, you'll have to return tomorrow and make a new order, free of charge" after some shouting and arguing you give up and leave.
A new day arrives, you return and start over. You take a bite and chew, the aroma is great, the texture is nearly perfect but the taste is kind of strange... you go to the chef "Execuse me but why is there so much salt in the steak?"
The chef says he knows the amount of salt is unbalanced but promises eventually the next steaks will taste real good! you go back to your place you finish the steak quickly. Some new customers arrive. "Is the steak really good?" they ask.
"It has great potential but even the chef said he totally messed up with the salt". Out of nowhere the chef comes storming out of the kitchen,a big gorilla like man, with veins popping in his forehead he grabs you firmly and tosses you out of the resteraunt.
"YOU CAN KEEP YOUR STINKING MONEY AND DON'T YOU EVER COME BACK HERE, I NEVER SAID ANY OF THAT YOU PATHETIC EXUSE OF A HUMAN BEING". you are waiting for him to give you your money back but he just slams the door.
"NO STEAK FOR YOU!"

... Credits roll
Fade to black
after credits scene starts:

"A few years later..." written in white letters as we see the golden era restaurant. ( now a successful establishment )

A person with black leather jacket and sunglasses enters the restaurant.

"Do you have a resevation sir?" the hostess asks.
"uhm, yes." The dark figure answers.
"Name?"
"JCD"
"Right over here mister"
JCD sits at the table and checks the menu.
The waiter approaches, "there you go sir, a special dish just for you!"
"Weird" JCD thinks to himself, "I didn't even order yet..."
JCD looks warringly on his dish, he takes a bite and starts to chew... the texture is weird and lumpy, as he swallows he gasps, looks up and whimpers "What the heck you call this thing?"
The waiter is not there, instead he sees the gorila man chef looking at him with a big grin on his face.
"It's my special meal, I call it..."

Spoiler

?CROW?

 

[:Flash:]

I just wanted to correct the record on what one poster said about David Bradley completing his game W7 in less than twenty years. D.W. Bradley had the full support of Sir-Tech, confessed at the court hearing he was simply building on code already heavily debugged by Woodhead and Greenberg, had at least thirty people working on the game with him including a full office staff waiting on him hand and foot and took nearly three years to complete this Wizardry despite it being a mere enhancement of Wizardry 6.

Bradley sent in a fully working version of his RPG before getting hired by Sir-Tech, who then forced him to re-write it in the Pascal system of the earlier Wizardries for V.
Wiz VI and VII, being C programs certainly didn't borrow pascal code, if anything, he borrowed code from his own, never published proto-Wiz V.

This is one of the things that shows the keen business sense of the Siroteks. First they ordered him to rewrite it in the system that was already being criticized for being too old, then they put it on hold for two years, so that Wizardry IV could be finished in the meantime.

 

[CRIT MAGNET]

(English noing my native language, my apologies for the grammar mistakes and stuff)
I've been reading the stuff here for a while but I'm out of popcorn so I could as well reply quickly and share the laugh, I'm having at how ridiculous some people are in the whole argument resurfacing here and there.

The biggest of all :
Cleve : From what I'm reading in your posts, you're a self-centered narcisist. That sums it up pretty well. Your behaviour on the boards is what I usually see on teenage boards. You try to find the best words to sound pompuous and important but the fact is : you're ridiculous. You're mad at one person just because he exaggerated your words and criticized your game with... well pretty harsh words. That would be "ok" in private like if we were in a bar or something. But you went nuts on the steam boards (and here) : a public place where your name as a developper is clearly displayed. Get a hold on yourself. People say you're a grown man then act like some instead of this childish tantrum. You're like "I don't care" but the next post you're writing a 5-7 lines text just to insult and belittle Felipepe ... just for free. For fun. Yeah I didn't see that stuff at that point since highschool and I'm not even exaggerating.
Same for your "defense" like the fact that steam keys aren't promised in the indiegogo thing. WELP that's the worst defense, you could choose, seeing all the other promises... Admit a bit of your wrongs, take a cold shower and try to act a bit professionnal instead of writing stuff just to say "I'm the best, I'm a hero. People who disagree are shit" (exaggeration on my part but it's clearly what stays in mind when reading you)

Felipe : Dude, you're not at the previous' one state but still... CHILL ! I think, everyone got the message about how Cleve acted like a... Well I don't even have to say it because a few people said the same, each one of them in their own way and even people supporting the game "as it is" (waiting for V2 but still finding it's description on steam sufficient and still recommending it to others) sometimes agree that Cleve went nuts and should stop. No need to react to every insignificant stuff, especially when it's from trolls like ones I'll talk about later. Haters are gonna hate. Focus on your stuff, write your review while being the most neutral with 100% facts on the game itself and don't put personnal involvement/personnal grudge in it. It's the best way to prove to everyone that you can still review the game + the best way to say to Cleve : "hey this sucks because this, this and that" (and you're free to say what's good too because you're saying yourself that the game is still good on some points)
TL;DR : Keep coool and ignore trolls

The Lady Error : Yeah you're not even really involved in this but you're so hilarious that I have to say something... Your bad faith is something ! Everytime, someone lets something implicit, you're jumping on it and interpreting it the wrong way on purpose. Your position in the "debate" here is clearly what we call on Internet a white knight. It's funny at first but you're writing so much bullshit that it becomes boring after a while. Even though I don't approve the "you got Cleve's dick in your throat" thing that I saw a few times... you really are being so subjective in all your post and so agressive with nearly everyone that noone can take what you say seriously. Like when Filipe is talking about Cleve not being honest. At the first message I immediately understood that he meant about the steam store description and other "easy to see" communication for the potential buyers. Here I looked at it. Descriptions and news. Tell me if I missed something but I saw no word about a V2 on it. If you want to see the V2 stuff, it's lost in the boards in middle of countless other messages.
This is just an example of course.

Roguey : No need to be so agressive and trying to wage personnal war against Felipe's reputation with your exaggeration is putting you lower than the one, you're having a grudge against... especially if you judge him for liking a game. Like "OMG HE LIKED *insert whatever you don't agree with* ! ALL WHAT HE SAYS IS SHIT !" is the kind of things, I was seeing on children/teenage boards too long ago. Looks like grown people here have issues.


Aaaand yeah I'm lazy so I'll stop here. I know I'll have the "you're not part of the community" whatever bullshit to make my arguments invalid but heh... you could be talking to my butt that it would care more than myself.
Cheers love !


PS : Rpguy you're awesome ! Keep up the good stuff ! Your text touched me emotionnally *applauses with a tear at the corner of the eye*

 

[Pookie]

 

[Brancaleone]

Also, any reviewer who thinks he is on a mission, to warn the unsuspecting buyers and make the world a better place like a lefty lunatic needs to be shunned and possibly banned.

In the comments section of the review, I'll be sure to let unsuspecting readers know that Felipe is a poseur who pretends to like classic blobbers more then he actually does, never actually having completed one, and that he's better off sticking to hipster crap like Undertale.

I'm starting to suspect that Sawyer and Cleve actually are the same person (with a serious case of split personality disorder, obviously), that would explain a lot.