elander_ said:
When will you open the game site? Fans could help you designing the game user interfaces and give you some ideas. For example campaign maps or world maps similar to RoA. This stuff does so much for crpgs with special and random encounters.
The game site will be opened AS the press-release, with a Pick-Your-Own-Path styled Comic as the introduction. The timing will be around major completion of the engine, leaving scripting work and tweaking, which will take a bit of time.
I don't foresee user maps for the main of the game, as it's story-intensive and the story is planned to change with the character's chosen direction. We are thinking of adding in a couple of "extra" games along with it, including a game similar to Rampage but with a spider-like Walking Eye.
We wrote the game preparing it for quick insertion into a game engine, with the elements pre-named and structured long before there was an engine. We have two engines we're looking at, one a base from Irrlicht, one a homebrew. The neat thing about having a few data structure gurus around is that we may even be able to use both engines at some point. That also helps for releasing the game onto, say, Linux and OpenBSD.
Synthis Process Modeler is quite a great find for our uses, from plotting story paths to AI logic, and I recommend it as a development tool. Flowcharts rule as writing and development supplements, and I could only imagine what some of the Ultimas could have been if they had used this instead of sketched flow paths.
Thats the way to go. But what about other ways to be yourself besides dialog like specializing in a "prophession" like thief who barely touches a weapon or a talker that uses persuasion and can convince other people to do things for him?
I will say that it is a personal goal to achieve a similar non-combat possibility as in Fallout. There will still be combat and danger, but you might have to run like hell if you don't want to fight. This means there is no definitive "big bad boss", but may be if you decide to play a certain way, only that once objectives are met and tasks are completed, the story can progress on. I personally planned to include Saint's favorite, Low-Int speech options, and those with a cult of personality can even become Mayor - even if they are Low-Int characters. How they become Mayor is something we hope gives a chuckle, as much of the game is social commentary.
I'll open a thread in the RPG forum later about it with some more basic info, details on what we intend, etc. I have some unpleasantness to take care of in the meantime, and then I hope I can pretty much stop wasting my time on it.
Kharn said:
Rosh said:
Even so, I find it amazing that someone until recently off-site seemed to understand the material and what was going on even better than the NMA staff. Care to explain that one?
Yes, it's you.
Amusing, but no. I will admit the fellow gave me a laugh, and if it's not too much to ask, could you PM him my zzn.com e-mail addy? Silencer should still have it, unless he's too lazy to even read his own mail while bullshitting around TO. The fellow has some good insights, a bit better than you it appears, and if he's got you fooled into thinking he's me then maybe I could use their talents as a writer. It is amusing my current team, since I've not looked at NMA until recently, and yet someone that I have had no fucking clue about has you convinced that it's me. Else I might have been a bit more prompt with the reply to the <s>"article"</s> three part sad cry for attention. But uh...congrats again for being more clueless than a common forum user. :D
Actually, you never mentioned that before, and it's more of a valid reason.
No, that's the first time I've *publicly* said so.
The point still essentially stands, though. As I understood from you, action in the month of July could have made a difference. Seeing inaction on our parts, you decided not to act either.
I was acting in the way I could, but not with having to deal with your drama shit. It could have made a difference, because as you yourself have reposted in January, they have a playable build.
I'll be very honest with you, Rosh, I think you have a point and that I was wrong in a lot of things. I saw the rumours and it did not even occur to me to post them. The lackluster reactions they got on DaC didn't encourage me any further. So I didn't post them, which according to you is either a sign of ignorance or not caring. Maybe you're right, I don't see the need to draw it into a personalities debate. I'm of the opinion that you could easily either have posted it yourself or implanted the idea that it should be posted *on time*, rather than 4 months later. Nobody asked you to carry the burden by yourself, but nor were you encouraging anyone to carry any burden for you.
In that context, I'm posting your post above on NMA. Too little too late? Stupidity? Laxness? Inconsistency? "I won"? Sure.
Or, it could be easily explained along with your drama buddy's PM I reposted, as if it should be a secret as to whom your tag-team partner was in this game of denial.
Which pretty much summed up your entire behavior here, at NMA, and DAC at the time, and how people on the NMA admin forum were trying to get you to save face even then.
Ok, but then you're not really any better than us in effect. Are you?
I spoke to a few developers who, however they could from their positions, could benefit from some guidance I offered and suggestions I made.
You stirred up inter-site drama, ignored leaked details, don't care to get any industry contacts and then whine over a three-part article aimed at Bethesda - after it's noted that Bethesda has a playable build of the game.
I wasn't the one waiting for Bethesda to come around and talk to him, then whined because they weren't talking to him. Remember, you and Silencer were the ones envious of Emil posting over at DAC.
Rosh said:
So why should I be the one giving you the info, have my sources demanded from me, if I'm going to be the only one trying to do the work?
Call me crazy, Rosh, but if you wanted people to work with you, why didn't you ask, rather than posting the rumours and expecting people to read your mind/intentions?
Well, I think after publicly correcting them over their "Bethesda hasn't told us anything yet" idiocy, with
what Bethesda has said and
is reposted on the Fallout 3 info page (amusing that you want to crow about fixing parts of the site and fail to read it as well...), it becoming a bit tiring after a while.
Now put that in context of the "rumors", and you should get a pretty clear picture.
And, if you wanted Bethesda to work with you, why didn't you ask around instead of doing a whole load of Jack Shit and then later post up a whining article?
No you don't. You know damn well that you're way too respected to be criticised for doing something like that, and that equally it would not have been taken down. That's not in doubt.
Really? The rest didn't seem to think so, and, well, I'll let your crony speak for you:
Okay, think about this for a minute:
Rosh claims that he spoke to a Bethesda dev who claimed some things.
How is this different from 'anonymous guy on the 'net claims'?
Not enough? How about yourself?
sanyok21 said:
Rosh said that his source was a bethesda developer, and he told him what you guys posted as a news-"rumour". No, it's not an official info, but it seems to be pretty much reliable, doesn't it?
Really? Can you name the developer? Do you know how involved he is in Fallout? Do you know how Rosh is translating what he was told? Are you sure the developer isn't jerking him around in a guerilla-war attempt to discredit us?
Lots of reasons to believe it, lots of reasons not to believe it. Lots of reasons to ask questions.
If you want to believe it blindly, I tip my hat at you, go ahead, but don't expect everyone to agree with you.
Also; moot point.
So much for "way too respected to be criticised"...
Remember, it was you Orderites that came up with the "Bethesda hasn't told us anything" mantra.
Personally, I'm still kind of surprised by that. As far as I know, it was pretty much asumed it would be console-pc from day 1, yet some people expressed surprise at hints in that direction.
I can't take responsibility for other people paying attention, though.
So then why am I about the only one drawing the connections, while other people are going "D'hurr...Bethesda hasn't told us anything yet!"
Fine then, get the fuck outta the way and listen to those who have been talking to Bethesda. Oh, wait, you'd rather bicker with them and stir up more shit like you did when VDweller released his info.
Rosh, I never pretended to look for developer contacts. That was never my job on NMA, nor with Van Buren* nor now. As far as I know, there is an NMA team each of whom has his own jobs to take care of. Are you saying getting developer contacts is the only relevant job on NMA and every admin should be doing it?
...
It is expected for a news ADMIN of ANY FANSITE try and get developer contacts for news input or developer contact. What, did you think it was for the Forum Administrator to do that? Or how about the useless Webmaster off playing WoW? Exactly who were you expecting to copy a clue from?
For fuck's sakes, that's a mere newsie's job too, as they are the public/developer input to the site.
No wonder you're this fucked up...you only copy what you can find from other sources, and don't bother to dig for more sources. As I have said before, NMA has had moderators post news and do it better than you manage to copy+paste from DAC.
* - Apparently, having everything handed to you by Briosafreak made you lazy and incompetent.
Rosh said:
You are, in essence, putting yourself on the same level as the other work and effort people have done in the past for the Fallout franchise, and that's simply dishonest as hell.
I am?
If you're going to recount a history, try to make it sound like you've been fighting the valiant fight for years, when you've done nothing but copy news from other sources and haven't bothered to try and talk to Bethesda on your own...then it's time to stop pretending. Earlier, you said it isn't your job to dig around for developer contacts...so why the fuck are you posting a three-part article whining for developers, Bethesda, to talk to you?
For the socially retarded: If you want someone to start talking to you, you might want to be the one to initiate communication. It is what you want, after all, and things don't just happen by sitting on your ass and whining about it.
I've never had any personal beef with VDweller, and what do you base this on?
The long and pretty amusing little tiff you had with him over two sites that led to your arguing with him over useless shit instead of paying attention to the vital bits of information that he had to say.
There was a reason why I hadn't posted the info myself, and that's because it was too dangerous to trust you with. You have proven, numerous times, that drama takes priority than your duties.
So far you've not wanted to respect their secrecy. You also have not shown that you respect the information that they took risks to get and give, by playing Order-style inter-site politics and bitching over doing your job. You again show no respect for them by insisting that I should have gone ahead and posted the info, when there was a specific reason for the way it was handled, so you can drop this excuse, children. You claim that I didn't care about Fallout then? Amusing, since I was the one talking to people working on the title, while some Orderites were "doing what they do best", stirring up inter-site drama and other garbage. And now you want to look like the wounded one, when you haven't bothered to do your job nor get off of your ass to really talk to anyone who may be willing to at Bethesda. It's called "try to figure out who is still there who isn't a total dipshit, and use the logical mailing system to directly contact these people". Same way a lot of people at V13, DAC, and NMA used to get contacts all over Interplay. I find it *quite* hard to believe that you've all suddenly become fansite newbs to forget this.
DAC does their thing, and it's an effort. You, and what NMA has become, are just willing to sit there and stir up forum politics while not bothering to really do your job, instead using your position to post articles to whine, instead of talking to people to get the point across. Again, I and my sources saw your retention abilities when I would post something QUITE contradictory to your mantra of "Bethesda hasn't told us anything yet", and later shared a laugh at "DC Comics". Again, sending Briosafreak to goldmine under a few BIS desks isn't going to work this time, and hasn't, as I've been telling you since...well, since Freaky Pete has been opening his yap. DAY FUCKING ONE. Whining that Bethesda isn't talking to you years later, and NOW challenging them to talk to you, is just too hilarious. As you, yourself posted as news in January:
In other news, while commenting on RPGCodex' take on Fallout 3 on our forums, RPGCodex head honcho VDweller stated that "[t]hey are not targeting the Fallout fans at all. If they were, they would be here now, talking to you, would they not? They already have a playable build, yet they didn't show anything to you. Ask yourself why."
So, that means "we don't post rumors" has somehow gone out the window between your use of that as an excuse, and when you decided that needed to be posted. And, don't you think that since it mentions a playable build, that most of the mechanics have been designed and developed already?
And now Sander's become a little too drama-tarded to think as well:
Okay, think about this for a minute:
Rosh claims that he spoke to a Bethesda dev who claimed some things.
How is this different from 'anonymous guy on the 'net claims'?
Let's see...because I've been around the Fallout fandom for a pretty long time, a lot longer than anyone else currently at a Fallout site, have spoken with developers of ALL Fallout-titled games since Fallout 1 was being developed, been involved with more than 3 Fallout fansites (DAC, NMA, V13, with some help on others), have been a public figure in said fandom and others with knowledge about the Fallout franchise to aid developers to improve upon the initial poor design of a spin-off (FOT), spread word of mouth to aid in the humiliating death of a poor spin-off - a title pirated more times than legitimately purchased (F
OS), and have been in contact with current Bethesda devs to give a few nudges here and there where possible, while leaking the occasional tidbit overtop the NMA Mantra of "Bethesda hasn't told us anything yet."
Yeah, "anonymous guy on the net". Your excuses sicken me. What the fuck have you kids done lately? Posted an article. Go you. You are the fans, you have to put the effort out to talk to the developers. If the developers want their ass kissed, they'll freely hit the speed-dial button for GameSpy/IGN. If you want something of substance, you're going to have to get your lazy ass off of the forums and fire up some e-mails and do some digging for yourselves. It isn't just going to fall into your lap, and Bethesda isn't particularly nor publicly forthcoming about questionable items in their games. Remember the leveling scheme, amongst the litany of problems of Oblivion, that was a recurring theme at NMA for a while?
And now, more drama whoring without bothering to think:
Kharn said:
Do you know how Rosh is translating what he was told? Are you sure the developer isn't jerking him around in a guerilla-war attempt to discredit us?
Then let's assume that I am wrong, and have been fed false information. Then you can kiss my ass, as you'll get a decent, proper sequel that Bethesda has taken pride and effort to produce in a faithful, forthright manner.
*LAUGHS* Wake the fuck up, kids.
And now, I reward your lazy excuses, by giving a lot of public attention to your lack of spine, your lack of effort of doing anything for yourself, and your fondness of inter-site politics getting in the way of fighting for quality in a game franchise. I point out the irony of you whining about Bethesda not talking to you...when you haven't put forth any fucking effort to talk to them in the first place!
You get the game you deserve for that laziness and preference to drama whore. I already knew the game was fucked - Bethesda is making it. Enough said. Seeing to what extent it could have been changed with a bit of community effort and more people growing a pair to publicly confront Bethesda would have been a bit better, but it seemed more like a contest of who could publicly fall onto developer dick first. So, enjoy getting fucked. If you had been paying attention to the general Fallout news instead of just merely reposting it, you could have read between the lines that they are waiting until they have it almost finished until they unveil more details about it.
So, in other words, I was tired of being the only one doing the effort. My contacts were initially made AS "Rosh @ NMA", and it was because I appeared outspoken and passionate about the title that they talked to me. That means any of you lazy little shits could have done the same. Only VDweller, Myself, and apparently someone at DAC have done this. Yet you want to throw up an article as if you have been doing something? Quit pretending, children.
You, NMA, can be summed up with a common excuse you've been using for the last 2 years as to why you can't be bothered to do shit:
"Bethesda hasn't told us anything yet."
