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Games you've changed your mind about

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
Now I think its straight up a bad game, and produced many tropes that reduced the quality of other games after it.
Dark Souls introduced exactly ZERO tropes in the westoid gaming industry and barely even had an effect on Japanese games. Even literal Dark Souls clones are a tiny niche and among those clones only an handful are any good.
I disagree. I think Dark Souls introduced and/or popularized the following:
  • Difficulty as a selling point and marketing gimmick in mass games
  • Very slow attacks that lock you in place and you can't cancel
  • The dodge-dodge-dodge-hit cycle of boss combat
  • The dance-around-and-backstab cycle of mook combat
  • Diegetic/in-world explanations for death/save/reload mechanics
  • Honestly, the entire idea of boss battles was brought back to PC gaming by Dark Souls, it was nearly extinct before
  • Focus on environmental storytelling over narrative storytelling
  • Focus on only telling half the story, and letting YouTubers make up the rest
  • A community of people who think its okay for a game to require you read the wiki while playing
And you can go and say "ooooh Zelda did this, ooooooh ICO did that", but the mass adoption or revival of many of these came because of Dark Soul's commercial success. And I'd say about half of them are bad, and I wish they hadn't happened.
I can write a similar list for the Batman Arkham games (the cinematic combat, the "detective vision", etc), or Assassin's Creed, or Far Cry games, but for those games I played them once, and I immediately saw it. For Dark Souls, I thought it won't inspire much change in the overall game design space. Disappointingly, it did. My favorite roguelike genre got hit hard, too, though honestly some roguelikes do Dark Souls better than Dark Souls does itself.

I think you need to start mentioning the actual games that do all of the above.

I'm also not entirely sure what the problem would be even if that was the case. What, you liked braindead popamole gameplay before? Is difficutly in games a negative now after two decades of push a buttom, awesome?

This is just Codex contrarianism without a cause as far as i can see. Any influence Dark Souls would have on the industry would be a positive one if it was true. Only thing is, it isn't. Mainstream games are still simplistic trash. Nobody is taking cues from Dark Souls because mainstream devs are too stupid to even grasp how a game like that works.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
You before: It had no influence.
You now: It had good influence.
And you accuse others of being delusional, contrarian, etc.

I'm not changing the argument i thought i had to add that point as well.

Dark Souls had no effect on the industry because AAA devs are too retarded to understand how a game like that works. Hell, they couldn't even copy Bethesda right as most mainstream games do open world wrong and in a way that completely misunderstands how Elder Scrolls works. Just look at Fag Cry.

But if it DID have an influence, i fail to see how that would be a negative.

So in either case your argument is retarded. "Hurr durr AAA westoid popamole trash has now been ruined by Dark Souls influences". Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
 

Maxie

Wholesome Chungus
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Glory to Ukraine
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Grantham, UK
You before: It had no influence.
You now: It had good influence.
And you accuse others of being delusional, contrarian, etc.

I'm not changing the argument i thought i had to add that point as well.

Dark Souls had no effect on the industry because AAA devs are too retarded to understand how a game like that works. Hell, they couldn't even copy Bethesda right as most mainstream games do open world wrong.

But if it DID have an influence, i fail to see how that would be a negative.

So in either case your argument is retarded. "Hurr durr AAA westoid popamole trash has now been ruined by Dark Souls influences". Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
how is this anywhere in the vicinity of true when SOULSLIKE is one of the most prevalent and most idiotic monikers thrown around for the past decade?
 
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
1,091
Morrowind is the one I had a complete change of heart about. For years I thought it was a shitty Gothic with Wikipedia dialogue. I still think it's that, but I got to discover the game underneath. The amazing setting, worldbuilding, the plethora of overlapping systems. I'm in awe of its vision, even if there's a lot to nitpick. Mods played a huge role in letting me discover the game's potential.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
You before: It had no influence.
You now: It had good influence.
And you accuse others of being delusional, contrarian, etc.

I'm not changing the argument i thought i had to add that point as well.

Dark Souls had no effect on the industry because AAA devs are too retarded to understand how a game like that works. Hell, they couldn't even copy Bethesda right as most mainstream games do open world wrong.

But if it DID have an influence, i fail to see how that would be a negative.

So in either case your argument is retarded. "Hurr durr AAA westoid popamole trash has now been ruined by Dark Souls influences". Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
how is this anywhere in the vicinity of true when SOULSLIKE is one of the most prevalent and most idiotic monikers thrown around for the past decade?

I think you guys are confusing gaming press terminology with an actual influence.

According to the faggy gaming press, if a game requires even the SLIGHTEST amount of effort it's automatically Soulslike. In reality whenever a so called "journalist" uses a term like Soulslike it's guaranteed they have no fucking clue of what they are talking about. Fucking Cuphead is Soulslike. Even nu-Doom is Soulslike according to those brain dead morons why are you even taking this shit seriously?

Show me the concrete examples. Show me the AAA mainstream games that have been altered in any way because of Dark Souls. You think the suites at EA or Ubishit even know Dark Souls exists?
 

Maxie

Wholesome Chungus
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Glory to Ukraine
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Messages
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You before: It had no influence.
You now: It had good influence.
And you accuse others of being delusional, contrarian, etc.

I'm not changing the argument i thought i had to add that point as well.

Dark Souls had no effect on the industry because AAA devs are too retarded to understand how a game like that works. Hell, they couldn't even copy Bethesda right as most mainstream games do open world wrong.

But if it DID have an influence, i fail to see how that would be a negative.

So in either case your argument is retarded. "Hurr durr AAA westoid popamole trash has now been ruined by Dark Souls influences". Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
how is this anywhere in the vicinity of true when SOULSLIKE is one of the most prevalent and most idiotic monikers thrown around for the past decade?

I think you guys are confusing gaming press terminology with an actual influence.

According to the faggy gaming press, if a game requires even the SLIGHTEST amount of effort it's automatically Soulslike. In reality whenever a so called "journalist" uses a term like Soulslike it's guaranteed they have no fucking clue of what they are talking about. Fucking Cuphead is Soulslike. Even nu-Doom is Soulslike according to those brain dead morons why are you even taking this shit seriously?

Show me the concrete examples. Show me the AAA mainstream games that have been altered in any way because of Dark Souls. You think the suites at EA or Ubishit even know Dark Souls exists?
you guys being whomst, myself?
EA's just shat out the sequel to their Star Wars soulslike like last year
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
You before: It had no influence.
You now: It had good influence.
And you accuse others of being delusional, contrarian, etc.

I'm not changing the argument i thought i had to add that point as well.

Dark Souls had no effect on the industry because AAA devs are too retarded to understand how a game like that works. Hell, they couldn't even copy Bethesda right as most mainstream games do open world wrong.

But if it DID have an influence, i fail to see how that would be a negative.

So in either case your argument is retarded. "Hurr durr AAA westoid popamole trash has now been ruined by Dark Souls influences". Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
how is this anywhere in the vicinity of true when SOULSLIKE is one of the most prevalent and most idiotic monikers thrown around for the past decade?

I think you guys are confusing gaming press terminology with an actual influence.

According to the faggy gaming press, if a game requires even the SLIGHTEST amount of effort it's automatically Soulslike. In reality whenever a so called "journalist" uses a term like Soulslike it's guaranteed they have no fucking clue of what they are talking about. Fucking Cuphead is Soulslike. Even nu-Doom is Soulslike according to those brain dead morons why are you even taking this shit seriously?

Show me the concrete examples. Show me the AAA mainstream games that have been altered in any way because of Dark Souls. You think the suites at EA or Ubishit even know Dark Souls exists?
you guys being whomst, myself?
EA's just shat out the sequel to their Star Wars soulslike like last year

Actual Souls-clones don't count.

Also, i can't imagine a game like Fallen Order being worse off by virtue of being a Souls-clone. It's literally the only reason i'm even considering getting the game at one point. If it wasn't a Souls-clone, it would likely be nothing but worthless popamole slop and i'm still on the fence whether it still isn't that even now.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
Actual Souls-clones don't count.
A Star Wars game by EA that literally copies Dark Souls wasn't inspired by Dark Souls, hurrrrrr durrrrrrrrr

As far as i understand it, EA wasn't actually happy with the game being a Souls-clone it's something the devs managed to sneak behind their backs. I remember reading an article on the subject.

So you have ONE AAA game that happens to be a Souls-clone. That's not an influence in terms of design or mechanics that can be felt across the industry. Souls-clones are a very narrow phenomena.
 

whydoibother

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
15,690
Location
bulgaristan
Codex Year of the Donut
Actual Souls-clones don't count.
A Star Wars game by EA that literally copies Dark Souls wasn't inspired by Dark Souls, hurrrrrr durrrrrrrrr
As far as i understand it, EA wasn't actually happy with the game being a Souls-clone it's something the devs managed to sneak behind their backs. I remember reading an article on the subject.
1. That's retarded and obviously false.
2. How does that counter the claim that Dark Souls was influential on the industry?
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
2. How does that counter the claim that Dark Souls was influential on the industry?

Because like i said Souls-clones are a niche, mostly a ghetto one barring a couple of rare exceptions. It stands to reason that Dark Souls being a popular game would spawn some imitators but that isn't the same as claiming the industry as a whole adopted its mechanics and style of gameplay, which is what you were arguing.

I would also argue that the fact most Souls-clones are kinda ghetto shows that the industry wasn't actually that receptive to the success of this franchise. The difficutly and mechanical complexity of Souls scares the mainstream gaming industry. They wouldn't dare touch it if they can help it.
 

Maxie

Wholesome Chungus
Patron
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Messages
6,857
Location
Grantham, UK
You before: It had no influence.
You now: It had good influence.
And you accuse others of being delusional, contrarian, etc.

I'm not changing the argument i thought i had to add that point as well.

Dark Souls had no effect on the industry because AAA devs are too retarded to understand how a game like that works. Hell, they couldn't even copy Bethesda right as most mainstream games do open world wrong.

But if it DID have an influence, i fail to see how that would be a negative.

So in either case your argument is retarded. "Hurr durr AAA westoid popamole trash has now been ruined by Dark Souls influences". Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
how is this anywhere in the vicinity of true when SOULSLIKE is one of the most prevalent and most idiotic monikers thrown around for the past decade?

I think you guys are confusing gaming press terminology with an actual influence.

According to the faggy gaming press, if a game requires even the SLIGHTEST amount of effort it's automatically Soulslike. In reality whenever a so called "journalist" uses a term like Soulslike it's guaranteed they have no fucking clue of what they are talking about. Fucking Cuphead is Soulslike. Even nu-Doom is Soulslike according to those brain dead morons why are you even taking this shit seriously?

Show me the concrete examples. Show me the AAA mainstream games that have been altered in any way because of Dark Souls. You think the suites at EA or Ubishit even know Dark Souls exists?
you guys being whomst, myself?
EA's just shat out the sequel to their Star Wars soulslike like last year

Actual Souls-clones don't count.

Also, i can't imagine a game like Fallen Order being worse off by virtue of being a Souls-clone. It's literally the only reason i'm even considering getting the game at one point. If it wasn't a Souls-clone, it would likely be nothing but worthless popamole slop and i'm still on the fence whether it still isn't that even now.
yeah you go argue with yourself guy
the only person able to match you in dishonesty
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
Actual Souls-clones don't count.
A Star Wars game by EA that literally copies Dark Souls wasn't inspired by Dark Souls, hurrrrrr durrrrrrrrr
As far as i understand it, EA wasn't actually happy with the game being a Souls-clone it's something the devs managed to sneak behind their backs. I remember reading an article on the subject.
1. That's retarded and obviously false.

Nope, it's true. EA didn't trust Fallen Order and they barely dished anything for marketing. This was the game's reveal for fuck's sake lol:



Fallen Order wasn't supposed to be a Star Wars game originally. Respawn was making their own third person action game when EA bought the company and their original game was retrofitted to be a Star Wars game because EA hold the licence. Fallen Order is a fluke, a glitch in the Matrix. If it was up to EA a game like this would have never been made. No multiplayer. No possibility to exploit it with monetization schemes. EA probably just figured they needed to release something Star Wars, whatever it was, just to show they were doing something with the licence and were shocked the game was a hit.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
You before: It had no influence.
You now: It had good influence.
And you accuse others of being delusional, contrarian, etc.

I'm not changing the argument i thought i had to add that point as well.

Dark Souls had no effect on the industry because AAA devs are too retarded to understand how a game like that works. Hell, they couldn't even copy Bethesda right as most mainstream games do open world wrong.

But if it DID have an influence, i fail to see how that would be a negative.

So in either case your argument is retarded. "Hurr durr AAA westoid popamole trash has now been ruined by Dark Souls influences". Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
how is this anywhere in the vicinity of true when SOULSLIKE is one of the most prevalent and most idiotic monikers thrown around for the past decade?

I think you guys are confusing gaming press terminology with an actual influence.

According to the faggy gaming press, if a game requires even the SLIGHTEST amount of effort it's automatically Soulslike. In reality whenever a so called "journalist" uses a term like Soulslike it's guaranteed they have no fucking clue of what they are talking about. Fucking Cuphead is Soulslike. Even nu-Doom is Soulslike according to those brain dead morons why are you even taking this shit seriously?

Show me the concrete examples. Show me the AAA mainstream games that have been altered in any way because of Dark Souls. You think the suites at EA or Ubishit even know Dark Souls exists?
you guys being whomst, myself?
EA's just shat out the sequel to their Star Wars soulslike like last year

Actual Souls-clones don't count.

Also, i can't imagine a game like Fallen Order being worse off by virtue of being a Souls-clone. It's literally the only reason i'm even considering getting the game at one point. If it wasn't a Souls-clone, it would likely be nothing but worthless popamole slop and i'm still on the fence whether it still isn't that even now.
yeah you go argue with yourself guy
the only person able to match you in dishonesty

No, you guys are just being intentionally obtuse in not wanting to see a distinction between "influence" and the mere existence of clones which is not at all the same thing.
 

whydoibother

Arcane
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Joined
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Messages
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Location
bulgaristan
Codex Year of the Donut
Bro, you are a mark, falling for marketing, paying $99 for a Che Guevara t-shirt to wear at the Commie Con you paid $499 to attend.
Suits wrote that suits didn't want to make this game and its a brave rebelion against suits, because suits know marks buy that shit.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,647
Bro, you are a mark, falling for marketing, paying $99 for a Che Guevara t-shirt to wear at the Commie Con you paid $499 to attend.
Suits wrote that suits didn't want to make this game and its a brave rebelion against suits, because suits know marks buy that shit.

Not even gonna bother decipher this gibberish.

My challenge still stands: barring the handful of actual Souls-clones like Fallen Order, Lies of P and the rest, can you point to specific examples of this supposed "influence"? I'm specifically curious about the "git gud" aspect, which implies somehow mainstream games have been made harder because of Dark Souls, something i'd really like to see proven to me. i would also like an explanation for why that is supposed to be a negative if it's real. You liked AAA popamole slop before?
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,226
Location
Bjørgvin
No specific games I can think of, but the more I read actual books and short stories the less interested I am in games with story elements and NPC interaction, and the more I'm leaning towards TB Blobbers and Strategy, ARPGs, and even rogue-likes have been tempting me lately.
For example I really enjoyed Dungeon Siege recently, but I could not work up the enthusiasm for the DS Ultima 5 remake, but I loved the DS U6 remake when I played it about ten years ago.
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,207
Soulslike is one the most popular genre now, in particular among indie devs. If there aren't many AAA soulslikes is just because nowadays there are few AAA games in general, compared to the past. Rolling and respawning is the "modern" equivalent of the old popamole.
 

Poseidon00

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2018
Messages
2,055
I guess it doesn't really count because I was a little brainlet, but when I first discovered the IE games as a young teen, I thought they were entirely unplayable. I grew up on the super nintendo so it wasn't a graphics thing either. It was just too hard, I didn't "get" the aesthetic, I didn't like to read. I was mesmerized by NWN's "action-packed" fighting animations. By the time my attention span had grew a bit I was hooked on them.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,159
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Dark Souls' influence is mainly seen in dodge-roll bullshit - the aforementioned Star Wars game but also Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Valhalla, Horizon Zero Dawn, etc. Dark Souls was definitely the game that popularised this in the modern era, even if it didn't invent it.

I fucking hate it, it always looks like insane anime shit. Ohoho you can't touch me because I'm rolling!!
 

janior

Arcane
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Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
3,710
Location
Ashenvale
I used to really dislike Oblivion, finished replaying it last week with a dozen or so mods and I must say it was a decent time, played Shivering Isles for the first time it was quite amusing. Certainly a better than I had slogging through Morrowind's House Hlaalu speech check extravaganza or morag tong hobo killer simulator.
Playing through Battlespire right now, wonder if that game will deteriorate my view on MW even further.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,159
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Oblivion's my nemesis because I actively want to like it and never manage to. I love the Bethesda formula, I don't really give a shit about TES lore despite being a fan of the series so I can handle the crappy interpretation of the setting, I don't care about the jankiness and find it endearing, I think the visuals and music are beautiful and love the fairytale look everything has... and yet I bounce off every time. As soon as I enter the fifteenth consecutive identical cave full of health bloat enemies I just have to quit.

Any mod recommendations?
 

janior

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Nov 9, 2015
Messages
3,710
Location
Ashenvale
Any mod recommendations?

...and probably something to make magic less shitty but I didn't bother because my character wasn't using any.

Personally I prefer this combo of mods to OOO or Maskar's Overhaul since it's less drastic.
 

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