Game Date?

[Edward_R_Murrow]

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Here is another explanation. Gothic 3 was shipped when all the pieces were put together. It was a brilliant, but absolutely unpolished game, which is a shame, because
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Have u posted any link on combat ,i f yes then plz give me link

So....you like casino gambling? Shame you happen to be an advertisement...your ideas weren't too bad.

 

[Fez]

Well spotted. I removed the sneaky asshole's adverts.

 

[Claw]

So... where's the download link?

 

[Jedi_Learner]

...

 

[Jasede]

I will answer for VD.


When it's done.

 

[Jedi_Learner]

...

 

[Elhoim]

Like it will be out on Thursday done.

 

[Frau Bishop]

Well spotted. I removed the sneaky asshole's adverts.

I LOVE RAPE

Now the Codex will get appropriate google hits, good work.


Oh man, can't wait til it's Thursday! I even installed Dungeon Lords Collector's Edition out of pure desperation.

 

[Müg]

Like it will be out on Thursday done.

Sir, do not play with my heart.

 

[Woetohice]

__

 

[spacemoose]

A few thoughts I had on making the towns look more interesting:

* baldur's gate and PST towns did not have individual houses as much as amalgamations of buildings - built so close that they were essentially a giant wall of houses. this would be fitting I think, particularly if placing objects haphazardly and at irregular angles (ie occupying tiles along some diagonal) is not a problem.

* every 'house' object could be made to have a 1-2 tile border specifically made for transition into its surroundings - weeds growing from the foundation, trash cans propped up against the walls, piles of garbage, broken bricks lying around, ditches, grass transitioning into cobbled road or a dusty path. this would mean a bit of art work, making unique transition tiles for every building but I think it would be worth it.

* roads and paths should be more prominent - I've seen just one road in the screens so far. they also need transitions into surroundings

 

[laclongquan]

Just my piece of ore
(not even sure it worth one centime yet)

As I remembered, towns of Fallout are not that interesting, either. Basically, bunch of houses slap together, with a few differences here and there just for shit and giggles.

True, nearly each town has some differences from others: Modoc is different from the Den, or Broken Hill, for example, but not that much. And Cities are different from towns (obviously) but the differences between cities are not too detailed (one exception is SanFrancisco).

Looking carefully at each town and city, there's quite a monotonous line and block of houses.

And if my memory serve, nearly no one complain about the simplicity in towns and cities. So gamers are not that nitpicky, right?

End of my piece of ore.

 

[Elhoim]

Just my piece of ore
(not even sure it worth one centime yet)

As I remembered, towns of Fallout are not that interesting, either. Basically, bunch of houses slap together, with a few differences here and there just for shit and giggles.

True, nearly each town has some differences from others: Modoc is different from the Den, or Broken Hill, for example, but not that much. And Cities are different from towns (obviously) but the differences between cities are not too detailed (one exception is SanFrancisco).

Looking carefully at each town and city, there's quite a monotonous line and block of houses.

And if my memory serve, nearly no one complain about the simplicity in towns and cities. So gamers are not that nitpicky, right?

End of my piece of ore.

We are working on creating different town districts right now. Check this thread, and give us your opinion:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... topic=32.0

 

[obediah]

Just my piece of ore
(not even sure it worth one centime yet)

As I remembered, towns of Fallout are not that interesting, either. Basically, bunch of houses slap together, with a few differences here and there just for shit and giggles.

True, nearly each town has some differences from others: Modoc is different from the Den, or Broken Hill, for example, but not that much. And Cities are different from towns (obviously) but the differences between cities are not too detailed (one exception is SanFrancisco).

Looking carefully at each town and city, there's quite a monotonous line and block of houses.

And if my memory serve, nearly no one complain about the simplicity in towns and cities. So gamers are not that nitpicky, right?

End of my piece of ore.

We are working on creating different town districts right now. Check this thread, and give us your opinion:

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/in ... topic=32.0

Christ, you guys are redoing the cities now? Doesn't anyone there have the balls to say "Enough. We're fixing bugs and releasing?". It's your game, so I guess it's your right to follow countless other developers into the "perfect game" black hole, but that's not what gamers want or need. We'd much rather have a stream of flawed but improving indie games.

It's obvious that AoD is a much richer game than the 2D game we were hearing about over two years ago, but it's not any closer to release. Iron Tower missed a great opportunity to release AoD as a modest little indie game and use the resulting feedback to make a second more ambitious game. As is, we may get one awesome game, but with a development history that those involved will not want to repeat.

 

[Jasede]

Disagree. We've been waiting for a nice indie RPG for ages, where's the harm in waiting another few years until AoD is done? I am all for polishing. What do they lose by taking lots of time? Nothing, as far as I can tell.

 

[Jora]

VD said in a recent thread that he's sick of his current main job and is planning a full time career in indie business. From that point of view it kinda makes sense that they want to create games that are more than a steady stream of flawed gems. In another thread he said he'd like to administer two projects (by two teams) simultaneously in the future.

But yeah, if the game won't be ready by Thursday or Q1 2008, I'll cut his balls. :evil:

 

[Rulion]

Give them all the time they need, IMO. Do I want to play AoD now? Very badly. But I don't want something that I'm going to get and think "This was almost good."

I could just play Eschalon for that.

 

[obediah]

Disagree. We've been waiting for a nice indie RPG for ages,

Why wait? There is a steady but slow stream of nice indie RPGs. I will pick up AoD when it is released, and it has a lot of promise, but I am no longer "waiting" for it. Why spend high school pining after the fickle prom queen when there are plenty of attractive girls willing to roll around in the back seat of a car with you.

where's the harm in waiting another few years until AoD is done?

What makes you think it will be another few years? As far as I can tell the release date is being picked from a poisson process. The next 6 months could be the it, or we could be looking at new super-amazing test screen shots four years from now.

I am all for polishing.

Me too. But polishing is full of pitfalls. Polish-Content loops. Diminishing Returns. Polish expiration.

E.g. In one of my first conversations with VD, he stated that he wasn't concerned about variable resolutions because most people playing AoD wouldn't have an LCD monitor. Within 2 years most people will have a 16:9 monitor, how long will it take to redo all the interfaces to be 16:9 and fit standard resolutions?

What do they lose by taking lots of time? Nothing, as far as I can tell.

Time that could be spent on the new game? First time developers never get everything right. The feedback from people actually playing the game is invaluable. The time spent incorporating the nth interface revision for AoD would be much better spent on the first interface for AoD2, which would address feedback from hundreds of people that have used it, rather than tens of people that have looked at screenshots.

Over the past two years of art and interface work, VD has countlessly been working on story, characters, etc. All of that work could have been on a new game. With the amount of effort put into AoD, there could have been a less polished AoDT(heoretical), and AoD2 that was just as polished as AoD wil be.

 

[Jasede]

Hmm, now that you put it like that you raise valid points and I find myself being compelled by what you said. Doubly so if that "VD full-time indie-developer" thing is more than a rumour.

 

[VasikkA]

Word on the steet is; due to recent revisions to level design, a Thursday release is becoming more and more unlikely. We might be looking at a Friday, or even a Saturday release, folks.

 

[k_bits]

Has anyone mentioned that crazy idea of copying the layout of real towns / villages?

It should be easy enough to find intersting sites via Google map / Earth, no?

 

[obediah]

VD said in a recent thread that he's sick of his current main job and is planning a full time career in indie business. From that point of view it kinda makes sense that they want to create games that are more than a steady stream of flawed gems.

You've got it backwards. As an after-work hobby, AoD is merely a frustrating example of software development pitfalls. As a business venture, it is a disaster. I found an announced demo release date of September 2005. Games intended to feed people rarely survive a 2+ year delay, and break even even less.

In another thread he said he'd like to administer two projects (by two teams) simultaneously in the future.

To be brutally honest, he hasn't (with AoD) demonstrated the skills required to succeed in that sort of endeavor. I'm optimistic that AoD will be great game but the project has been managed poorly. Maybe VD has learned from AoD, and his next game will managed better. But as is, there is no way I'd hand him a bag of money to make a game.

A project leader delivers a high quality product on time and on budget. This means having a solid vision statement, realistic ambitions, a thorough understanding of the capabilities of team members, and constantly staying abreast of progress and identifying potential problems. Game project leads are never this good though, because the pay is shit.

But yeah, if the game won't be ready by Thursday or Q1 2008, I'll cut his balls. :evil:

Ouch. I'm not looking to hurt anyone. It's just tough love and frustration. I hope that after the project, they are willing to take a long look at the process and post a "Don't do these things we did" for other Indie developers.

 

[Jora]

You've got it backwards. As an after-work hobby, AoD is merely a frustrating example of software development pitfalls. As a business venture, it is a disaster. I found an announced demo release date of September 2005. Games intended to feed people rarely survive a 2+ year delay, and break even even less.

Yeah, I understand that. However, since the game is still a hobby project (and only one of the goals is to enter full-time development), I think they can afford the delay. I know nothing of their plans, likes or dislikes, but with Oscar (Elhoim) onboard and pretty much everyone here praising the graphics, they may finally have an idea of what level of quality to shoot for and how they're going to accomplish it.

To be brutally honest, he hasn't (with AoD) demonstrated the skills required to succeed in that sort of endeavor. I'm optimistic that AoD will be great game but the project has been managed poorly. Maybe VD has learned from AoD, and his next game will managed better. But as is, there is no way I'd hand him a bag of money to make a game.

Well, I know nothing of game development, so I'm not going to comment either way.

A project leader delivers a high quality product on time and on budget. This means having a solid vision statement, realistic ambitions, a thorough understanding of the capabilities of team members, and constantly staying abreast of progress and identifying potential problems. Game project leads are never this good though, because the pay is shit.

Since the game is still only a hobby project that VD and others are doing in their spare time, you can't really say they've exceeded the budget or schedule. And as it's their first project and one that is still searching for it's identity and the potential buyers, AND as the team wasn't even completely full until recently and as they're all without previous experience and pretty much testing the waters and flexing their muscles... I'm willing to believe in their ability to stay on a tighter schedule the next time they make a game.

Ouch. I'm not looking to hurt anyone. It's just tough love and frustration.

I understand completely. :D AoD is pretty much the only game I'm looking forward to that's going to be released any time soon. IMO they don't even need to implement sound effects.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Christ, you guys are redoing the cities now?

Yep.

Doesn't anyone there have the balls to say "Enough. We're fixing bugs and releasing?".

Why? To prove what point?

It's your game, so I guess it's your right to follow countless other developers into the "perfect game"...

Because that's what the industry suffers from. "Perfect" games that were in development too long.

... but that's not what gamers want or need. We'd much rather have a stream of flawed but improving indie games.

I guess that's what Feargus thought when he started his slam-dank series. Gamers would rather have a steam of flawed games than a few "perfect" ones. We all know how that story ended.

Iron Tower missed a great opportunity to release AoD as a modest little indie game...

... and then go out of business Zero-Sum style.

... and use the resulting feedback to make a second more ambitious game.

The market is unforgiving to indie games. While a real studio can make a game like Dungeon Lords and survive to make another Dungeon Lords game, we can't. Indies live or die by their first game. Considering that I really, really want to leave my job and start making games for a living, can you blame me for taking my time to do it right? It's not like I'm collecting pre-orders here.

Part 2

As a business venture, it is a disaster. I found an announced demo release date of September 2005. Games intended to feed people rarely survive a 2+ year delay, and break even even less.

It's our first project. The development time includes switching to a new engine, customizing that engine, making mistakes, learning what works and what doesn't, becoming "experienced" for the lack of a better word.

To be brutally honest, he hasn't (with AoD) demonstrated the skills required to succeed in that sort of endeavor. I'm optimistic that AoD will be great game but the project has been managed poorly. Maybe VD has learned from AoD, and his next game will managed better. But as is, there is no way I'd hand him a bag of money to make a game.

A project leader delivers a high quality product on time and on budget....

What a load of crap. I haven't seen many software projects, including games, that were delivered on time, on budget, and in a "high quality" state). Hellgate London anyone? Bloodlines? KOTOR 2? Btw, what do all these games have in common? They were developed by very experienced teams working full time and knowing what they are doing.

Now, compare it to our situation. Nobody had any experience. Nobody worked on the game full time. We did it over the internet. If you ask me, it's a fucking miracle that we made it that far.

 

[bezimek]

@ Vault Dweller

I have one small question:

Do you have or planing to have worldwide publisher ? Buying hardcore games in Poland are not easy task. Many good games are relased by Cenega. I would love to play original version of AoD. So could you answer my question ?