Fucking Ultima II Man

[ScottishMartialArts]

Why am I playing this shit?

 

[Jaesun]

Indeed. Un-install that shit and start at Ultima IV. It all starts from there.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

But but I have to get a skull key so that I can steal the plane. I won't let this banal piece of shit defeat me.

 

[Exmit]

Why am I playing this shit?

Because of this:

 

[MMXI]

If you actually know how to complete it, Ultima II is better than Ultima I. If you don't know how to complete it, it's probably the second worst Ultima.

 

[Excidium]

Damn he looks pretty good on this pic.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

I just can't believe that Garriot never noticed that the grinding this game makes you do is really fucking boring. The adventure elements of it, i.e. figuring out how to complete the quest, are pretty good; it's just the dependency upon finding completely random treasure items by grinding for hours that is tiresome as hell.

 

[MMXI]

I just can't believe that Garriot never noticed that the grinding this game makes you do is really fucking boring. The adventure elements of it, i.e. figuring out how to complete the quest, are pretty good; it's just the dependency upon finding completely random treasure items by grinding for hours that is tiresome as hell.

Get a boat in Pangaea and sail around the island shooting cannons at enemies for a couple of hours. Use your money to level up your statistics. You should have gained enough of those items to beat the game with.

 

[Jaesun]

It's a terrible game SMA. Seriously, it's like Richard Garriot was out on a gigantic crack binge making I II and III then finally sobered up and then made IV.

 

[jancobblepot]

If you actually know how to complete it, Ultima II is better than Ultima I. If you don't know how to complete it, it's probably the second worst Ultima.

 

[MMXI]

It's a terrible game SMA. Seriously, it's like Richard Garriot was out on a gigantic crack binge making I II and III then finally sobered up and then made IV.

Nothing wrong with Ultima III for the time. Nothing at all. Stop being all next gen!

 

[Sceptic]

Nothing wrong with Ultima III for the time. Nothing at all. Stop being all next gen!

This. Ultima I was also pretty amazing for its time.

U2, on the other hand, has no excuses.

If you actually know how to complete it, Ultima II is better than Ultima I. If you don't know how to complete it, it's probably the second worst Ultima.

I'd argue it's the second worst anyway. Knowing how to complete still entails loads of grinding and lots of stupid stuff to do. Not to mention the whole damn game makes no fucking sense whatsoever. And dungeons and towers are utterly useless. And so is the entire solar system aside from Planet X.

Good thing LB went on to make the much superior Ultima 3 after this one.

 

[MMXI]

If you actually know how to complete it, Ultima II is better than Ultima I. If you don't know how to complete it, it's probably the second worst Ultima.

I'd argue it's the second worst anyway. Knowing how to complete still entails loads of grinding and lots of stupid stuff to do. Not to mention the whole damn game makes no fucking sense whatsoever. And dungeons and towers are utterly useless. And so is the entire solar system aside from Planet X.

Hmm? If you know what to do you won't need to visit any other planet other than Planet X, so that's irrelevant. Ultima II didn't have any of that retarded TIE fighter shooting in. Dungeons in the first two Ultima games (and Akalabeth) sucked anyway, so not being required to enter dungeons is a bonus. Towns are far more unique and interesting to explore, though full of retarded in jokes and pop culture references (Fallout 2 before Fallout 2), but again you don't need to talk to NPCs if you know what to do. The only thing worse is the grinding, but even that doesn't take too long if you are content with finishing the game with less than maximum statistics.

 

[mr.doo]

Out of curiosity, if ultima II was the second worst ultima then which one is the worst ?

 

[Luzur]

Ultima II was more a experiment testing out stuff Garriott found cool for future Ultimas then a true Ultima game.

Out of curiosity, if ultima II was the second worst ultima then which one is the worst ?

Ultima 9.

 

[MisterStone]

SMA if you need a final excuse to stop playing that game, when you get to some of the planets use a mapping gen and make note of the retarded shit such as pack man and ghosts drawn from shrubberies on the map.

We should just sell indulgences to people so that they don't have to feel bad about skipping over shit games like this.

U III is a bit better, but does not hold up very well. ($10 indulgence)

U IV decent, still a bit creaky by modern standards. ($20 indulgence)

UV- BRILLIANT (not playing is mortal sin!)

 

[mr.doo]

I suspected as much, even if I find the comparison waaaay exaggerated. I mean ultima IX was quite a disappointment for any fan of the previous games such as myself and it was seen as little more than a average game in 2000, now comparing it with a 1982 game ? Come on

 

[jancobblepot]

SMA if you need a final excuse to stop playing that game, when you get to some of the planets use a mapping gen and make note of the retarded shit such as pack man and ghosts drawn from shrubberies on the map.

We should just sell indulgences to people so that they don't have to feel bad about skipping over shit games like this.

U III is a bit better, but does not hold up very well. ($10 indulgence)

U IV decent, still a bit creaky by modern standards. ($20 indulgence)

UV- BRILLIANT (not playing is mortal sin!)

 

[MMXI]

SMA if you need a final excuse to stop playing that game, when you get to some of the planets use a mapping gen and make note of the retarded shit such as pack man and ghosts drawn from shrubberies on the map.

 

[ever]

A lot of games from this time were very goofy like that. Might and Magic for example.

Remakes of the first three games using the retconned lore could be interesting. Britannia in the age of Darkness, I wonder how Lord British himself woudl want those with today's hardware capabilities.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

bunch of haters here

Ultima was just the cash rocket that gave one man the gift of space

did any of your so called heroes tim cain or chris avellone or todd howard leave the earth to dance among the stars no the only people they dance with are people from gamespot if they're lucky

 

[Sceptic]

If you know what to do you won't need to visit any other planet other than Planet X, so that's irrelevant.

"90% of the game world has no reason for existing" is hardly irrelevant; coherent, cohesive game world with lots of exploration and lots of interesting things to find is precisely what makes MM6 or WOX such good exploration games. Even Ultima 3 had an interesting game world to explore, where almost every town had something interesting, whether plot-specific or not. With Ultima 2 the only reason for exploring 90% of the world is "let's find what crazy shit LB has thought of putting there". It's the same Theme Park accusation levelled at Bethesda, except 24 years earlier.

Ultima II didn't have any of that retarded TIE fighter shooting in.

Which was pretty much the only retarded thing in all of Ultima 1. Ultima 2 had:
- New Jester. No comment.
- Computer Camp. No comment.
- The USSR military base. No comment.
- The whole time travel shtick. No comment.
- The clerk says: Welcome to Hotel California! THE CLERK SAYS: WELCOME TO HOTEL CALIFORNIA!
- ROBERT WOODHEAD SAYS: COPY PROTECT! COPY PROTECT!
Need I go on?

Towns are far more unique and interesting to explore, though full of retarded in jokes and pop culture references (Fallout 2 before Fallout 2), but again you don't need to talk to NPCs if you know what to do.

Towns are more unique, definitely. But more interesting? the retarded references make it anything but interesting. And "it's not bad if you have a walkthrough or have memorized all the essential steps to victory" is never an excuse in my book.

As you may have gathered, I'm not overly fond of the game

LB himself wrote at one point that U2 was the game he was kinda embarrassed of, the "pot-pourri of weird ideas" (exact words IIRC) that made no sense. It shows. I don't hold it against him because he learned a LOT from the experience, both in terms of design and programming (it was his first all-Assembly game) and because there was no industry at the time and almost everything was an experiment. In fact, I'm far less virulent than I used to be about the game because in hindsight I do see it more as an experiment than as a proper game, but at the time everyone around me was enamored with it and I just hated the damn thing.

A lot of games from this time were very goofy like that. Might and Magic for example.

Except MM1 kept the goofiness quite in check, at least until you reach the Inner Sanctum. MM2 on the other hand went full retard with it. See a pattern there?

New Jester

You know, what I really remember of New Jester is that army of, well, jesters that try to kill you. By comparison, finding out much later on that it's a pacman map was pretty tame compared to the WTF moment trying to stave off the jesters.

 

[MMXI]

If you know what to do you won't need to visit any other planet other than Planet X, so that's irrelevant.

"90% of the game world has no reason for existing" is hardly irrelevant; coherent, cohesive game world with lots of exploration and lots of interesting things to find is precisely what makes MM6 or WOX such good exploration games. Even Ultima 3 had an interesting game world to explore, where almost every town had something interesting, whether plot-specific or not. With Ultima 2 the only reason for exploring 90% of the world is "let's find what crazy shit LB has thought of putting there". It's the same Theme Park accusation levelled at Bethesda, except 24 years earlier.

Why are you comparing it to Ultima III? Ultima III shits on the first two games regardless of whether you know what to do in them or not. The first game has just as much irrelevant crap as the second, if not more. At least Ultima II has towns that are actually reasonably fun to explore (and necessary for clues). The first game has more towns than any other Ultima game, and they are all irrelevant.

Ultima II didn't have any of that retarded TIE fighter shooting in.

Which was pretty much the only retarded thing in all of Ultima 1. Ultima 2 had:
- New Jester. No comment.
- Computer Camp. No comment.
- The USSR military base. No comment.
- The whole time travel shtick. No comment.
- The clerk says: Welcome to Hotel California! THE CLERK SAYS: WELCOME TO HOTEL CALIFORNIA!
- ROBERT WOODHEAD SAYS: COPY PROTECT! COPY PROTECT!
Need I go on?

At least the towns are unique and NPCs have shit to actually say to you. In comparison, it feels much more detailed than the first game, regardless of all that retardedness.

Towns are far more unique and interesting to explore, though full of retarded in jokes and pop culture references (Fallout 2 before Fallout 2), but again you don't need to talk to NPCs if you know what to do.

Towns are more unique, definitely. But more interesting? the retarded references make it anything but interesting. And "it's not bad if you have a walkthrough or have memorized all the essential steps to victory" is never an excuse in my book.

I disagree. They were more interesting and more unique. I remember stealing food from the drive through in Port Bonifice and then running away from the guards. I remember picking a lock to the Pirates Harbor, running from the KGB, killing a civilian blocking my way, stealing a ship, sailing around the the space port and blasting off into space. In comparison, getting into space in the first game involves grinding cast and buying a space shuttle... at a shop. You complain about Ultima II being retarded, but Ultima I allowed you to buy space shuttles in local shops. And how do you get into space in Ultima II? Time travel to the future, make your way over to the remnants of the Soviet Union, steal one of their test shuttles and blast off into space. It might be more wacky but at least it fit in with the general goofyness.

As you may have gathered, I'm not overly fond of the game

I can tell.

LB himself wrote at one point that U2 was the game he was kinda embarrassed of, the "pot-pourri of weird ideas" (exact words IIRC) that made no sense. It shows. I don't hold it against him because he learned a LOT from the experience, both in terms of design and programming (it was his first all-Assembly game) and because there was no industry at the time and almost everything was an experiment. In fact, I'm far less virulent than I used to be about the game because in hindsight I do see it more as an experiment than as a proper game, but at the time everyone around me was enamored with it and I just hated the damn thing.

It did many good things that lead to the later games, though. Towns stayed basically in the same format up until Ultima VI. Picking up vital clues from individual NPCs stayed with the series forever (basically). The time gates became the moongates etc.

New Jester

You know, what I really remember of New Jester is that army of, well, jesters that try to kill you. By comparison, finding out much later on that it's a pacman map was pretty tame compared to the WTF moment trying to stave off the jesters.

New Jester was pretty awesome. It was just retarded but without being annoyingly retarded. At first I tried to talk to the first jester I saw. Walked up to it slowly. Then I saw another behind it walking towards me. Then another. Then I realized the town was full of them. I started wondering how I'd be able to keep track of which ones I had spoken to (in case any of them had anything unique to say). Didn't get the chance to implement my strategy, though, as they swarmed me, blocked me in and forced me to kill them.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Ultima II was Richards crash course in machine code. Nothing more, nothing less. When you look at what was around at the time, it isn't that big a deal. Things didn't start to heat up until 1983 with Ultima III, unless you enjoyed Wizardry.

What else was there back then?

Ultima IV, Lords of Midnight, Phantasie, Bard's tale...they were to come in '85.

Things got progressively better after that...until the dark times...until the decline...

I remember stealing food from the drive through in Port Bonifice and then running away from the guards. I remember picking a lock to the Pirates Harbor, running from the KGB, killing a civilian blocking my way, stealing a ship, sailing around the the space port and blasting off into space

Ah yes....hilarious times. But you are correct. It had a lot more fun things to do than Ultima I.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

So does XP matter for anything in Ultima 2? Or is it just the equivalent of your score?