Fuck you, John Carmack.

[EvilSatan]

Doom and Quake were shit compared to HL2, Crysis 2 and hopefully Rage.

Valve faggot detected .

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Quake is ugly as balls though. It was a step ahead in technology back then, but DOOM graphics aged a lot better IMO.

I like graphics of Quake without acceleration and blurred textures, though. Too bad that just like Doom, trying to play it gives me a motion sickness.

 

[Konjad]

Unreal > Quake/Quake II
Unreal Tournament > Quake III Arena

Face the fucking truth!

 

[Angthoron]

Unreal > Quake/Quake II
Unreal Tournament > Quake III Arena

Face the fucking truth!

but bro also consider this that there was unreal 2 and it was leaps and bounds better then unreal and then also unreal 2003 witch was so greatful that i was happy when it was pubish. AND ALSO!!! games rly get beter every year cause graphics get better and sound and gameplay i mean come on get real doomtwo couldnt even jump or make sweet sweet kill animation so just hold down button and shoot shoot and maybe collect some health if you suck. now games are much more realistic and interactive and also so close to roleplaying b/cause youre no longer some nameless pollack running away from a mars concentration camp but are a badass enough dude and maybe can talk and not just wiggle eyebrows. and also health regen is a good idea becasue you dont have to run back and waste time and instead you just be in covers and it helps you quick but you can still maybe die.





Also, yeah. I liked U/UT way more than Q2/Q3. That's not to say I didn't like Q2, but one playthrough through that was more than enough (though replaying Q2 now) - Unreal I can still replay every other year.

 

[Lord Rocket]

Doom is the best FPS. Or, more specifically, Doom II is as it has the most perfect balance between weaponry and enemy variety ever seen in an FPS (sans Revenant which is the only reason the super shotgun really needs to be present. I know the more hardcore players tend to really like the Rev for it's versatility but the fact it excels in all roles makes it a rather boring enemy, and homing rockets are a right cunt. Also, the super shotty makes fighting Pain Elementals not as interesting as it should be. No Revs and super shotty, that's what I reckon), although Doom's level design was far more inspired than the sequel.

Anyway the real reason I'm posting is to point out that some Rage actual play footage is up on the web. Seems less linear than CoD et. al. but it looks pretty easy; although, it might be balanced for attrition rather than hiding which would be nice. F'rex

edit: and when I say 'hiding' I do of course mean popamoling, my mistake

 

[Trash]

Fun part is that even today Doom is pretty much awesome to play. Recently tried Half Life and Quake and they just did not come close.

Still, Rage looks like it could be mad fun. Racing around with buggies, over the top enemies and gunplay, whacked out story? Yes plz.

Not to mention that it looks brilliant.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Unreal > Quake/Quake II
Unreal Tournament > Quake III Arena

Face the fucking truth!

I prefer the atmosphere of Quake/Quake II.

 

[Berekän]

Unreal Tournament > Quake III Arena

You wish...

 

[MetalCraze]

He is right. Q3 has nothing on UT. Maps, speed and gamemodes are all superior.

 

[Max Heap]

Unreal > Quake/Quake II

I second this!

However I'm playing Quake: Scourge of Armagon (Mission Pack 1) at the moment and it's awesomeness knows no bounds.


Unreal itself is still one of the best FPS out there. Too bad Unreal 2 had nothing on its predecessor. Also Epic is a console dev now.

 

[J_C]

He is right. Q3 has nothing on UT. Maps, speed and gamemodes are all superior.

This.

 

[BelisariuS.F]

He is right. Q3 has nothing on UT. Maps, speed and gamemodes are all superior.

UT doesn't have strafe jumping. The game is too slow for me.

 

[toro]

The latest trailer for Rage was pure shit.

This is why getting opinions about games from this place is so banalshitboring. Everything is either super awesome or pure shit, and the retards here have brains incapable of finding anything accurate. The rage trailer made me interested in a game that I had previously dismissed, which is pretty good for "pure shit"

Well, watch this: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/making-of-rage/717458
Maybe your brain is irradiated, but I did not say that the game is shit, I said that the trailer is pure crap. Cause when they hype "shotguns" as a new gimmick, is beyond the usual corporate shit, is plain retarded. In fact, this trailer pissed me and not only. And I don't think that was their intention.

Crap trailer != crap game. Comprende?

 

[shihonage]

Unreal's first level was excellent. The rest was throwaway crap.

But UT > Q3.

 

[toro]

These arguments about old versus new shooters reminds me that the Codex is retarded and that I'm enlighted.

Anyone who seriously thinks some fucking trigger-happy brainless game with levels that only consist of cylinders, quader and cones versus todays evolved FPS design is better seriosuly needs to check a doctor. Or better, just fuck off and do something else.

My comment was related to Quake multiplayer, cause whatever you are doing in a MP shooter today, it was already done 15 years ago in Quake. Not to mention that "corridor shooter" term did not exist then.
But what made me rage, was your comparison:
HL2 - half-baked story, easy as shit and ... meatless. Sucks in multiplayer.
Crysis 2 - manages to fell more boring than the first one and.... u play a superhuman. That's a great challenge in itself. Not to mention it sucks in multiplayer.
Rage - the new comer. Wanna now why it will suck? Let me guess: scripted like Doom3, wingstick messing up all the combat, arcade racing and stiff animations. But a good open-world or a good story might save this game. However it will suck in multiplayer.

Is true that many shooters managed to offer better single-player experiences, but in MP, the difference is not big. The only games that can rival Quake longevity are TF2 and CS, but their existence is linked to Quake. Neither HL2, Crysis 2 or Rage are or will be played as much as Quake. And Quake is played even today.

 

[toro]

I don't care about Doom, but please, stay the fuck away from Quake.

If you like Quake and are not a graphic whore then there's no reason not to like Doom. In terms of gameplay and level design they're pretty much the same thing. Quake just updated the engine to true 3D.
(though I would argue that no FPS has ever managed to surpass Doom Episode 1 in Deathmatch for sheer elegance and balance)

When Doom was released, I didn't have a computer. Then when I got one, I started with Quake DM4 and I could not go back to Doom or Duke Nukem. That's why I don't comment about those games, but I understand the nostalgia that surrounds them, at least for the people that played them at the right moment.

 

[sea]

I don't understand the problem. id Software are in the business of making money, and they do so by making good games. They're delivering a product and they want to do that in the best way they can. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Carmack's point is that the "games must be innovative/different/etc." crowd, typically associated with indie developers, can be damaging because it reduces the creation of games to change and innovation simply for the sake of it, not because it leads to quality gameplay. I'll take a game with excellent and well-though-out mechanics over a short platform title with Tim Burton artwork and a half-baked message about environmentalism any day. The other stuff? Sure, I'll take those too, but they're extras, and they shouldn't compromise the rest of the product.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

It was the interaction between Romero and Carmack that lit the Doom fire.

Romero = Creative brain.
Carmack = Logic brain.

Carmack makes nice engines. CryEngine3 still looks better to me. But Carmack is brilliant!

But without a creative gene, any games he produce will decline.

Painkiller was awesome.

But face it, it began with Doom and ended with Half-life. That is all.

We can never hope to see another innovative "shooter," because once the dynamic evolves out of "shooter" territory, it will no longer be a shooter, but a stealth-action game or so on. Right now, the genre is all marketing hype, Call of Duty or otherwise.

 

[sea]

We can never hope to see another innovative "shooter," because once the dynamic evolves out of "shooter" territory, it will no longer be a shooter, but a stealth-action game or so on. Right now, the genre is all marketing hype, Call of Duty or otherwise.

I think it's more just that there are only so many ways that you can simulate the act of shooting people before it gets stale. With that in mind I'd much rather see people look at perfecting the act and its various permutations rather than trying to see how many different genres they can blend their shooters with before people start scratching their heads.

 

[TripJack]

Doom II is as it has the most perfect balance between weaponry and enemy variety ever seen in an FPS (sans Revenant which is the only reason the super shotgun really needs to be present. I know the more hardcore players tend to really like the Rev for it's versatility but the fact it excels in all roles makes it a rather boring enemy, and homing rockets are a right cunt. Also, the super shotty makes fighting Pain Elementals not as interesting as it should be. No Revs and super shotty, that's what I reckon)

wat

i don't see how revenants are a boring enemy considering how fast they fuck you up if you're not careful besides it's not like the homing rockets are hard to get away from even on -fast which i don't even think makes them faster

and what is this shit about the super shotgun i usually prefer rockets or the chaingun for revenants and of course the super shotty works wonders on pain elementals even the single shotgun works beautifully when you are at point blank range, which is the best place to be against a pain elemental



Also UT>Q. Still need to play Unreal 1 though.

 

[kingcomrade]

Er yeah -fast mode does make the rockets faster and they are very difficult to get away from in any sort of open area. As I mentioned my friends and I play Doom regularly and basically dislike all of the Doom 2 monsters except for the Mancubus and the Hell Knight. Then again we always play on -fast and gayballs (pain elementals) are just obnoxious, same as with revenants on fast.

Unreal 1 was honestly not a very good game. The first level was very atmospheric and it had a decent soundtrack for its day, but I found the rest of the game rather boring and the guns limp.

UT and Q3 were both pretty decent. We know skyway is a massive hypocrite and is just as silly as franchise fanboys he supposedly hates. He played UT so it is god and every single other shooter of the era was total absolute shit, like the other retard was saying.

 

[ArcturusXIV]

What "permutation" would you most like to see?

I feel like I lack arms in the shooter. I can barely crawl boxes six inches above my head. I want a freerunning shooter! With shadows, stealth, gunplay, and general environmental interactivity, along with the AI to use it.

But then, it wouldn't really be a shooter, would it...

 

[Sceptic]

I understand the nostalgia that surrounds them

There is no nostalgia, only good design.

Unreal's first level was excellent. The rest was throwaway crap.

Hell no. Early Unreal was linear corridor shooter boredom. Then it gets awesome.

 

[Lord Rocket]

Yes an enemy that is good at everything is boring. Good SP play in Doom means exploiting monster weaknesses (ie. using the level to your advantage), and one that doesn't really have any makes fighting them boring. Also, what the fuck's the point if it makes basically every other monster look like shit. It's tougher and has more melee damage output than pinkys and their ranged attack accuracy and damage makes basically every other monster - exception: arch vile, for the simple reason that it doesn't use projectile attacks - look like a sucker too.
The super shotgun is also a boring weapon for the same reason, it's only weakness is against big hordes - a weakness it shares with the normal shotgun, which is rendered obsolete by the super (IT IS NOT A PISTOL FFS). Don't say 'long range' as the chaingun still exists and that is the pro's sniping weapon. Or the rocket launcher/plasma gun if you've got a clear path. NB the reason why the super is boring against pain elementals is the same reason it is boring against all enemies - that it 'works wonders' against them. Fucking rocket launcher equivalent damage output, irrelevant weaknesses, runs roughshod over existing weapons balance = decline.

 

[EvilSatan]

 

[Mister Arkham]

Eh. He's not really defending bad FPS's he's saying each one doesn't need to have something super innovative in it and he's right. The problem with today's CoD's and such isn't that they're all the same, it's that the core mechanics and gameplay are simply awful. In fact, many of them seem to be trying to add new shit to spice them up and they fail. Look, in DNF you get to drive around in a mini car ROFL OMG! No.


If you think about it, Duke3D, Blood, Shadow Warrior, Outlaws, etc etc were all good games, but they didn't really do much that was different from one another. They were built on fun level designs, fast action, and fun weapons.

This, for the third time and a thousand more. The man's not looking down on creativity or artistic merit, he's looking down on the people who are so up their own asses that they forget that first person shooters are supposed to be fun and enjoyable first, and "art" second.