Forgotten Realms vs. Greyhawk

[King Crispy]

I know this is an age-old subject that I wouldn't be surprised to learn has already been discussed! here to death already, but I recently discovered and started enjoying this site which has some really great little details about the Greyhawk universe from the owner's own campaign. It got me interested in Greyhawk again and specifically in the differences between the respective two universes' own versions of the Underdark.

Here are just some of my own thoughts about the two campaign settings regarding interesting ways that they contrast each other.

- The two obviously have a very different "feel". Greyhawk of course seems much older (which it is) and more austere or authentic to me. FR brought a new and exciting flavor to D&D in its time but has quickly worn out its welcome with many fans, myself as well I have to admit.

- FR seems to be more highly varied in its climates and population types. Greyhawk almost certainly contains most if not all the same types of cultures as the Realms, but they don't seem as prominently featured, which is more proper to me, the more exotic locations and cultures remaining so.

- Both worlds have their VIP's and Who's Who's, but at least with Greyhawk they're somewhat restrained, whereas in Faerun it seems like there are 20+ level archmages and super characters hanging out on every street corner. FR magic also seems to grow on trees (and probably literally does somewhere).

- With the Underdark regions, I find Toril's more fascinating than Oerth's. It is much more extensive, and mysterious. The more highly alien societies like the Aboleths are featured more prominently there, whereas in Greyhawk's version there is much more of an unknown factor, which is certainly how its creators intended to keep it. The Drow are certainly overdone in FR, but some of their cities and the detailed and amazing way some of them have been fleshed out (e.g. Ched Nasad) are fascinating.

If the commercial success of FR hadn't run so amok, what with all the ridiculous novels and overhyping of things like Drizzt' career and all that stupid shit, as a setting it would remain much more appealing in many ways. With Greyhawk, that hasn't happened so it still retains its authenticity IMO and may never grow stale.

Admitting this is a completely cursory overview and apologies for sticking this in GRPG, but hoping for some interesting insight and very jaded opinions. :D

 

[Excidium]

Dark Sun!

 

[JrK]

I just take FR for the pantheon. I rewrite the rest meself, except for some geography.

 

[SkeleTony]

FR was largely crap...but it made up for it's lack of quality with a MASSIVE world!(/sarcasm)

Greyhawk was not brilliant either but aside from Dark Sun what D&D setting WAS worth a shit?

Not that I care as far as my gaming goes. A generic fantasy world full of orcs and dwarfs and shit is all you need for a good RPG, as long as the game mechanics are decent(which D&D has NEVER been).

 

[felipepepe]

If the commercial success of FR hadn't run so amok, what with all the ridiculous novels and overhyping of things like Drizzt' career and all that stupid shit, as a setting it would remain much more appealing in many ways.

Exactly this. FR has a great pantheon, well-know locations and good lore, but it so....POP. It's almost as if you don't visit the Underdark, the Spine of the World or say hi to Drizzt/Elminister, you aren't playing it right...

 

[deus101]

FR did the quantity bit right, which i say is very important for a setting(even if you have to blow of your lunch money on tons of source books)

 

[Destroid]

You don't need really need quantity, I've played RPGs that have never left a single city.

 

[Reject_666_6]

Planescape is the only answer.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Both are pretty much okay excuses to go and kill a whole shitload of monsters, with a bunch of mysterious lands full of things to interact with...using swords not words.

Anyway, it's not so much the setting, as much as it's the DM. Forgotten Realms can be great with a competent DM and Ravenloft can be a munchkinized monty haul affair with a poor one. Sure, some settings lend themselves better to certain kinds of gaming, but it still mostly comes down to the DM.

 

[Jaesun]

Anyway, it's not so much the setting, as much as it's the DM.

This.

 

[Metro]

Greyhawk always seemed dull to me. Granted FR was filled with every possible cliche you can imagine. Your only escape is... SPELLJAMMER!

 

[Volourn]

FR> GH

GH is a dumbed down version of FR... na,d yeah, I know GH came first. But, it's so shit. The characters are shit, the stories are shit, the world ism shit. There's nothing that makes it stand out. Nothing.

Pretty much allm the other D7D settings stand out in some way. Be it RL, PS, DS, SJ, FR, or whatever. But, GHG is the epitome of generic,. Fr is definitely not generic.

And, the claim that Fr has 'worn out its welcome' is bullshit sicne the most successful games are based in the FR and it's by far D&D's most successful campaign settings. The others have their fan niches but that's it.

P.S. I do like Mordenkainen or hwoever the fuck you spell his name. L0L

P.S.S. That's probably the most memorable part of the GH setting... many of the classic wizard x name's spell in the PHB are based on GH mages.


P.S.S. The retarted argument that GH is better because it's less popular is just dumb. The whole reasonn why FR was created was b/c GH was such a fialure as an 'official' camapign. They don't even bother to make box sets or books for it and just keep it in the best PHB 'cause it simply would not fukkin' sell 'cause it's such a fukkin' joke.
R00flefagsz!

 

[DemonKing]

Dark Sun!

This.

If I had to pick between Greyhawk and FR I'd probably go for FR, simply because I'm more familiar with it, although I kind of liked some of the stuff in Greyhawk, like having an entire country run by an evil demi-god.

 

[deuxhero]

G: Eberron.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I never really got into Greyhawk as it seemed rather bland. FR was basically the default setting of most of their fiction and sales for awhile (other than Dragonlance, I suppose) but it's also fairly generic except with everything you can think of crammed into it and I find that the setting lends itself to Monty Haul campaigns where everyone has a bag of +5 swords, so bleh.

I liked Dark Sun, haven't checked the relaunch though, and my friends and I used to enjoy the Birthright setting for its take on ruling by divine right and such. Midnight's kind of interesting if you go into unofficial settings - for the whole LotR except Sauron won the War of the Ring premise.

Eberron is terrible shit.

 

[hakuroshi]

Grayhawk is a generic fantasy setting and was meant to be as it was the first one. And sometimes you need just this. I like it as a quiet countryhouse which is bland and boring but homey and you can just rest here and don't worry about anything. It's good for old school dungeoncrawls but hardly anything more elaborate.

 

[Ulminati]

Eberron was the best setting Clerics of the Coast ever got their hands on. It's a travesty they killed it off again so quickly. A world in which the highest-level named NPC is 10 and an army of low-level adepts make everyday conveniences with magic was a fascinating place to explore.

The 3.5 books were really good too. A 150 page book would have 130 pages of fluff and 20 pages of crunch. By comparsion, most FR sourcebooks were almost 2/3rds (or more) lists of new feats, spells and ways to twink out your d00dz.

The pathfinder campaign setting is decent too. It's stuck somewhere in-between Greyhawk and FR. closer to GH than FR, but still has enough variances to feel like more than Ye Olde Generic Worlde

 

[waywardOne]

FR is full of faggots. Nuke it from orbit; it's the only way to be sure.

 

[mondblut]

Greyhawk was not brilliant either but aside from Dark Sun what D&D setting WAS worth a shit?

Ravenloft and Birthright, duh.

 

[KevinV12000]

I think the Forgotten Realms started out much better than Greyhawk, but the inevitable slide to ever more powerful characters and ever more amazing events have left FR ridiculous. The same thing happened to the Thieves World shared world series—they both started out with relatively modest characters and good stories and ended up with characters becoming gods and everything, even the standard ink quill, ends up being magical.

Another factor in FR’s slide is something that I’ve noticed both in gaming and in the larger culture: given time, the evil factions and characters become much more powerful in the fiction while the good factions are driven by internal strife and destruction. So, in the beginning, Cormyr was a solid, good-aligned kingdom with reasonably powered leaders who were neither goody-two-shoes nor vain and valueless nobles. So, of course, now in the lore all those leaders are either dead or retired and the new leaders don’t share their ancestors’ noble aims. Meanwhile, every two-bit evil character has grown to demi-godhood.

So, given this “shared world syndrome” Greyhawk has come out looking better because, oddly enough, it’s mediocrity never attracted so much attention that it became the subject of that syndrome.

OMG, I have given this way too much thought. Me geek.

 

[mondblut]

Anyway, I never was an expert on Greyhawk, but it left on me an impression of being way too character-focused. Open any page of any book at random and it is always Mordenkainen this and Iuz that and Rory something. FR, due to its sheer size, is much easier on "signature characters", there are whole empires out there which never have heard of Elminster or Azoun, let alone Drizzt or Volo (which makes those empires luckier than us consumers ).

 

[Mortmal]

One more step towards pen and paper rpg cryspy, you know you cant avoid them. Greyhawk or FR ? Why choose any , play both. Greyhawk is a bit more magic light, in overall seems more realistic coherent and darker than FR to me , but FR has much more to tell and huge lore, at least in 3.5.However a poor DM can make any of those settings utterly sucks.

 

[Phelot]

Ravenloft!



Hey Crispy, I remember that site. It has that awesome interactive map of the city, but it's not working at my work computer

 

[Zed]

ToEE is the only Greyhawk thing I've played (CRPG-wise or otherwise).

But it doesn't matter anyway because I'm a huge BG fanboy. Forgotten Realms all the waaaay.
Drizzt is a huge fag though.

 

[Jaesun]

Ravenloft!

That is honestly my favorite setting but none of the DM's I played with back in the day would ever do a campaign in it. :/ Assholes.