X-COM Firaxis - XCOM: Enemy Unknown + Enemy Within Expansion

[kris]

I've never ever had this happen in about 30 missions. I'd be glad if I was proven wrong but it really seems like the aliens are just static groups that appear when you move into their LOS.
playing on Impossible.

They group is indeed just a simple marker until spotted. You will never get fired at or ambushed before spotting the enemy, you can loose sight of it momentarily though, since they get free move.

They move, but they never spot you and shoot at you in the same turn. I've had many occasions where I end the turn having not seen any aliens. Some patrol marker paths into the range where it turns into aliens, they move into view. The patrol gets their "we see you" cutscene and another free move. What is happening if I end turn not having seen aliens, then aliens move into my range during their turn, if that isn't a patrol?

Rotating spawning points. I am not saying it is that, but I think it is very likely going by my experience of the game.

 

[Gozma]

Is there a TB squad tactics game that you Boring Shit Banal guys think is good but isn't reliant on sniper-spotting or sight range manipulation? I was sick of UFOD/TFTD and JA2 for that, and by the late phase of XCOM EU guess what you are mostly sniper spotting. I liked the earlier parts where doing run and guns with shotgun assaults was more dominant.

Yes. Shadow Watch. A turn based and very board-gamey title from around the turn of the century with only 6 characters with each of their specialty battling it out with criminal or terrorist organisations in small isometric maps. Your accuracy or damage isn't affected by range, only by cover and shooter skills.

Wow, that actually looks good, I was expecting some Quake-era 3D abortion. I'll get it

Rotating spawning points. I am not saying it is that, but I think it is very likely going by my experience of the game.

That's possible I guess. But then what is the difference between a "rotating spawning point" and a marker that mimics moving around the map (a "patrol")?

 

[Storyfag]

What is happening if I end turn not having seen aliens, then aliens move into my range during their turn, if that isn't a patrol?

Since they don't shoot at you, but simply get their "spotted" animation and run for cover, that's not a patrol, that's just retarded.

 

[Gozma]

It's a patrol as in it moves. That was what people were saying didn't happen. It matters in a lot of cases like for example where you are getting wandering patrols joining fights. I had a mission in my firestorm grind where I was trying to (overconfidently) kill the mind-controlling sectoid commanders in a ship and patrols of a cyberdisk and three heavy floaters joined halfway and I managed the impossible task of getting a colonel assault killed before I got shit under control.

 

[Gord]

I don't really get why they made the alien "patrols" just run for cover when first spotting you instead of directly attacking.
Too difficult for post-decline generation?
Then again, they provided Ironman and Impossible, which seem to provide quite some difficulty.

 

[Gozma]

Sounds like an executive decision that it would be "unfair" in a game where a couple of crits can kill your highly invested RPG man. It does let you play faster because you can just ignore cover for the people in the squad that aren't uncovering fog of war.

It removes all the tension from the "sweep the open areas" parts of missions once you have reliable firepower like powered-up squad sight snipers.

 

[tuluse]

I don't really get why they made the alien "patrols" just run for cover when first spotting you instead of directly attacking.
Too difficult for post-decline generation?
Then again, they provided Ironman and Impossible, which seem to provide quite some difficulty.

The aliens always get a free turn and have 360 degree vision. If you got shot at every time you moved forward the game would be nearly impossible I think.

 

[Fart Master]

Interesting. Started a new game and in the second mission I caught a sectoid hiding behind a car and it didn't get the "WE SEE YOU" animation, it just sat there and I had it flanked. I shot it and on the next turn another sectoid ran into my overwatched soldiers. Couldn't get any screenshots because print screen just gave me black screens.

This hasn't happened once in about 8 hours of gameplay so I'm inclined to believe its a bug.

 

[Gozma]

They could let aliens that spot you only on the alien turn get a shot without breaking the game, it would just make cover crawling over the maps way more important and slow, and every once in a while one of your dudes would get killed by a UFOD-level "unfair" crit. It is possible for enemies to pop into existence without them spotting you (eg by a battle scanner or ghost armor, or maybe proximity) and since they exist and move normally they actually CAN see you and shoot you in the same turn. I lost a bunch more RPG badasses on a terror mission because I reaction fired a hole in a wall, exposing a bunch of heavy floaters that went apeshit and got their free move and fired in the same turn.

The game is REALLY reminding me of a roguelike at this point for another reason, because it's deadly enough even on classic that when you play irritated and bored (the fucking plot UFO failed to cooperate even more) you get people killed. Is there more plot to do after I finally take it down and ground mission it? I mostly just want to get back to early game when it's more fun

 

[Jaedar]

I have to say, I really like the changes to the strategic layer. Cash and alloys/elerium is quite sparse so you really have to prioritize. Managing the tradeoffs between keeping shitty countries from leaving the project and developing regions with good bonuses is pretty interesting too.

It's a shame the tactical layer is kinda bad. Not terrible, but its not very interesting at all. Everything is so very random and unlike the original, you don't have the numbers to smooth it out. And then you get a high level sniper with squadsight and an assault with rapid fire and everything becomes kinda trivial.

 

[UncleJimb0]

This game is kicking my ass.

This pleases me.

I'm playing on Classic Ironman. I'm able to carry most of the early tactical missions, but on my best game loss so far I've been overwhelmed twice at terror sites by SWARMS of chryssalids...and cyberdiscs on the second, as well. Once I have carapace armor and lasers I can generally defeat the mutons, but my snipers keep dying before they get godlike powers. All this would be manageable, but I canNOT keep world panic down. Even when I'm doing well countries start leaving due to abductions and occasional satellite losses and god forbid my squad gets wiped at a terror or I have to abort a mission cuz half the planet will defect to the aliens on the spot.

I actually am finding that I enjoy the tactical game, and I appreciate how the strategic game makes you actually plan ahead and make REALLY tough choices.

I keep thinking I should switch to normal, but the Classic difficulty is making this game really addictive.

I'm really glad I didn't cancel my preorder after the demo.

 

[Jasede]

Keep talking, you're renewing my interest. Is there a demo?

 

[UncleJimb0]

There is, but its about the worst possible presentation of the game.

I would take the time to write out a thoughtful response, urging you to give it a try...but screw you, I've got another Ironman to attempt!

 

[Black]

Keep talking, you're renewing my interest. Is there a demo?

Seriously, man?
There's always a demo.

 

[Jasede]

There is, but its about the worst possible presentation of the game.

I would take the time to write out a thoughtful response, urging you to give it a try...

but screw you, I've got another Ironman to attempt!

 

[Black]

There's also extended demo: enhanced edition.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

The demo is two scripted tutorial missions on easy difficulty, Jasede it would show you the most basic shit (You move on squares! There's low cover and high cover! There are classes!) you could learn from watching a few gameplay videos. I guess it's worth it if you can play that and keep in mind the full game is hard as shit on classic ironman.

 

[Jasede]

I'd rather read more about what you guys have to say. Usually your peers are a better guide on what game you'll enjoy than anything else.

 

[Gozma]

Edit: ^^^ wait until it's cheaper, it's basically like some sloppy but interesting Eastern European game except with pointless AAA cutscenes

Damn impossible is pretty retarded. Took me like a half hour to find a first mission that is winnable. The first time I tried it put me in that graveyard around a church map and like 10 fucking sectoids patrol-spawned on top of me on the first alien turn and shot me to shit instantly. The first couple of months of missions could easily be unwinnable ones, too, although at least you have the option to abort after the first one. I think the midgame-lategame would actually be fun, though, because it's too easy on classic

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Damn impossible is pretty retarded. Took me like a half hour to find a first mission that is winnable. The first time I tried it put me in that graveyard around a church map and like 10 fucking sectoids patrol-spawned on top of me on the first alien turn and shot me to shit instantly. The first couple of months of missions could easily be unwinnable ones, too, although at least you have the option to abort after the first one. I think the midgame-lategame would actually be fun, though, because it's too easy on classic

I've had some missions like that on classic. You start getting to the point where you think you've got a handle on sectoids, then you'll land in a mission with tons of the fuckers immediately and just get overwhelmed. Sorta like when I lost most of my best soldiers in my previous campaign in a mission against thin men and floaters. Had some bad rolls and patrols flanking me and things went south fast.
The map IIRC was something like an office attached to a warehouse. Had floaters and thin men on the office side which is how all my soldiers were positioned for cover, and then a group of floaters came from the warehouse side.

Speaking of cover, here's what some dude has figured out as far as how accuracy works.

Stuff I've learned. Maybe common knowledge, maybe helpful. This is all in classic difficulty.

The basics of aiming:
Each unit has an aim stat. That = the base percentage to hit.
Light cover is -20% to hit, heavy cover -40%.
Flanking from the side negates all cover bonuses, but doesn't add to the base aim. 50% critical chance, though.
Flying units are 20% harder to hit (always in light cover, essentially)
Close range adds an aim bonus. Shotguns (and other weapons, I'm sure) get an aim penalty at longer ranges. Need to do more tests to figure out how this works, exactly.
Elevation is a single state (I think!). As long as you are higher than your target, you get an aim bonus. I think it was 20%, but that seems too high. You're also harder to hit. I'll need to recheck these numbers.
A poisoned soldier has a -20% aiming penalty.

Misc:
Mind-melded sectoids have +50% critical chance. Kill the sectoid that is sending out energy and you'll kill the other guy as well.
Simply holding a medpack (having it in inventory) makes that soldier immune to poison.
Holotargeting (heavy ability) adds +10% to all allies aiming at that alien even in the heavy's shot misses.
A unit that is dashing (using both moves at once) gets a dodge bonus against reaction/overwatch shots. Not sure how bug, though.

 

[Gozma]

Impossible would be way more fun if they'd cut sectoids back to frag-grenadeable 3 health, then the first month wouldn't just be smashing your face into an RNG. After that you would have some levels on your dudes and some heavies with rocket launchers to carry you through to early midgame.

 

[Surf Solar]

I guess this means I am fucked.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

You let England fall?

 

[Surf Solar]

No, they were at only 2 panic levels, but bailed out on the last monthly report (which I got an "A" grade for, even oO )

Guess I have to start again. :D

 

[Blaine]

Trying to figure out what will and will not allow LOS in this game is incredibly aggravating, considering that when you move, you are stuck with that move unless you save scum. Apparently, the side of a mountain is A-OK to shoot through sometimes, while the edge of a door covering your shoulder blocks your view of a Floater you're practically French kissing. For fuck's fucking fuck.

Also, the bulkhead walls of an interstellar UFO are destructible with any plasma weapon, yet a 1980s panel truck parked at a gas station won't take a scratch from them. Consistency is a lost art.

PS: Surf Solar, thank you for tipping me off to that German image sharing site. Imgur, Imageshack and Photobucket are all bloody terrible. Imgur was good until it started weirdly re-sizing and inflating anything other than <50kb JPEGs.

 

[Jasede]

What about tinypic?