Delterius
Arcane
TBH, while I can see an advantage in the customizeable AIs I still played Dragon Age and FFXII with very minimal gambit use. I don't see much of point otherwise.
FFXII doesn't even allow you to perform the most basic and common type of action that you can do in any PC RTwP game.
You simply can't adequately micromanage a party and respond to threats efficiently. This is despite the fact that the party size in FFXII is only three characters while the party size in say, the Infinity Engine games is double that + potentially a bunch of summons.
How can a game that automates that process and largely takes it out of your hands be the best RTwP game ever?
To say nothing of the fact that a game that relies so stronly an AI scripting is essentially a game where the primary challenge consists of the artificial intelligence fighting against...itself.
Infinity Engine scenario: An enemy mage is casting a spell and you believe it's an AoE spell. Your characters are cluttered together, so you order them to move to different spots so they don't all get hit by the incoming AoE.FFXII doesn't even allow you to perform the most basic and common type of action that you can do in any PC RTwP game.
Such as?
Spells have to have a target in FFXII. Once you see the red targeting line, you switch to that person and move them away from the other 2. Or, you use Decoy on the person you want to be the target of all damage and position them properly ahead of time so this is never an issue.Infinity Engine scenario: An enemy mage is casting a spell and you believe it's an AoE spell. Your characters are cluttered together, so you order them to move to different spots so they don't all get hit by the incoming AoE.FFXII doesn't even allow you to perform the most basic and common type of action that you can do in any PC RTwP game.
Such as?
You cannot do this in FFXII because to move a character, you have to take control of them and even then, you can't order them to move to a specific spot, you have to directly move them in real-time for the duration of the distance as you would in an action-RPG.
As I said, even something as incredibly basic as ordering a character to move to a certain spot or ordering multiple characters to move or attack, is impossible to do in FFXII. You might argue it's a great RPG (I disagree, but let's not digress), but as an RTwP game it's incredibly lacking.
They have to have a target because the abilities and spells were obviously designed around the control and interface limitations I pointed out. This is hardly a positive thing, and it only reinforces my point.Spells have to have a target in FFXII.
Sounds like aggro managing a tank in an MMO.Once you see the red targeting line, you switch to that person and move them away from the other 2. Or, you use Decoy on the person you want to be the target of all damage and position them properly ahead of time so this is never an issue.
No. You cast a spell called Decoy, and all enemies focus on that person for the duration of the spell, but has a chance to fail. And even if it were...so?Sounds like aggro managing a tank in an MMO.
Highly unnecessary for fights that matter. Late-game encounters are tightly tuned and what you're talking about is wasting time for the sake of argument, because you come in pretty much every JRPG thread to bitch about CRPG's vs. JRPGs.They have to have a target because the abilities and spells were obviously designed around the control and interface limitations I pointed out. This is hardly a positive thing, and it only reinforces my point.
In my opinion these are unfair arguments, using gambits and trying to optimize how to use them is obviously how the game is meant to be played. So much that the game does not give you any alternative way to control a party in this game, which really pisses me off, if there was an option to play the game like classic FFs then we would have a different debate. You certainly don't have to control zero character, the game gives you the possibility to control one and that's what I do, but more than one, not really.You could, but it might get tedious vs trash mobs, which is why the Gambit systems allows you to set parameters for the AI to do everything you want it to do. It's as automated as you allow it, which is great. You can create just the amount of micro you want to have, or none if you want to just grind on auto pilot, if that's your fancy. VS most of the optional boss fights you pretty much have to take control unless you are working with meta data in case you know what kind of gambits to setup to counter the threats.
How can a game that automates that process and largely takes it out of your hands be the best RTwP game ever?
As I said before, the game is as automated as you want it to be. You can have no automation, you can have full automation, and you can have an entire spectrum of everything in between. It's up to the players preferences.[...]All of this is optional, of course. The game doesn't force you to use gambits. At all.
That's half wrong, you can automatize every bad status change healing, HP healing when your characters are low HPs and that sort of things, which makes the game not fun at all. And once again it's the way the game is meant to be played, don't tell me just not to use them, I can also play the game blinfolded but I won't either, you're given only one way to control your party and this way os very not fun to me because it relies on finally automatizing every character but one and playing as only one character just in like all these modern, japanese as western, RPGs I'll never play.There's no universal AI switch for FF12 that you flip on and off and let the game play it for you. For the AI to be successful you need to know the ins and outs of the game and enemy encounters and set it up for success, and you constantly have to change the AI scripting. You have to custom tailor the AI always for individual boss fights, especially the harder optional ones such as the mid to high level hunts and Espers, otherwise it'll just shit itself. A shit player isn't going to win the game unless they know how they are scripting the AI, unless they read a guide.
Yes, I agree with the edgy newfag, the IE games as well as more generally characters doing basically/almost nothing except following you at most until you're asking them to (and with the game thought that way), possibly with the ability to queue actions on the go, are certainly lesser offenders in my opinion. I don't want more AI, I doesn't want any AI at all. Just experiment with turn-based systems just like Valkyria Chronicles or Resonance of fate if you really have to (hint : you don't) try and modernize things.I am not the biggest fan of RTwP, but presumably the thing it has going for it over other combat systems is the simultaneous conflict resolution, i.e. encounters where the key to victory is predicting and responding to the real-time flow of combat. How can a game that automates that process and largely takes it out of your hands be the best RTwP game ever?
I'm not sure I should join the debate since I don't care that much about this game but anyway, I spent hours on the game so why not. Take this only I my own opinions but I completely disagree with you guys here. I hate gambits just like I hate any AI control for party members. Why would I control only one character in an party-based RPG, or even in an RPG at all? I don't know if I consider gambits worse offenders than party members who act entirely by themselves or not, what's sure is that I hate both options with a passion.
In my opinion these are unfair arguments, using gambits and trying to optimize how to use them is obviously how the game is meant to be played. So much that the game does not give you any alternative way to control a party in this game, which really pisses me off, if there was an option to play the game like classic FFs then we would have a different debate. You certainly don't have to control zero character, the game gives you the possibility to control one and that's what I do, but more than one, not really.You could, but it might get tedious vs trash mobs, which is why the Gambit systems allows you to set parameters for the AI to do everything you want it to do. It's as automated as you allow it, which is great. You can create just the amount of micro you want to have, or none if you want to just grind on auto pilot, if that's your fancy. VS most of the optional boss fights you pretty much have to take control unless you are working with meta data in case you know what kind of gambits to setup to counter the threats.
How can a game that automates that process and largely takes it out of your hands be the best RTwP game ever?
As I said before, the game is as automated as you want it to be. You can have no automation, you can have full automation, and you can have an entire spectrum of everything in between. It's up to the players preferences.[...]All of this is optional, of course. The game doesn't force you to use gambits. At all.
That's half wrong, you can automatize every bad status change healing, HP healing when your characters are low HPs and that sort of things, which makes the game not fun at all. And once again it's the way the game is meant to be played, don't tell me just not to use them, I can also play the game blinfolded but I won't either, you're given only one way to control your party and this way os very not fun to me because it relies on finally automatizing every character but one and playing as only one character just in like all these modern, japanese as western, RPGs I'll never play.[/quote]There's no universal AI switch for FF12 that you flip on and off and let the game play it for you. For the AI to be successful you need to know the ins and outs of the game and enemy encounters and set it up for success, and you constantly have to change the AI scripting. You have to custom tailor the AI always for individual boss fights, especially the harder optional ones such as the mid to high level hunts and Espers, otherwise it'll just shit itself. A shit player isn't going to win the game unless they know how they are scripting the AI, unless they read a guide.
Yes, I agree with the edgy newfag, the IE games as well as more generally characters doing basically/almost nothing except following you at most until you're asking them to (and with the game thought that way), possibly with the ability to queue actions on the go, are certainly lesser offenders in my opinion. I don't want more AI, I doesn't want any AI at all. Just experiment with turn-based systems just like Valkyria Chronicles or Resonance of fate if you really have to (hint : you don't) try and modernize things.I am not the biggest fan of RTwP, but presumably the thing it has going for it over other combat systems is the simultaneous conflict resolution, i.e. encounters where the key to victory is predicting and responding to the real-time flow of combat. How can a game that automates that process and largely takes it out of your hands be the best RTwP game ever?
My 2 cents.
With the amount of buffs and debuffs you pretty much need to use (Bubble, Decoy, Protect, and Shell. Bravery, Faith, and Haste being amazing and QOL but not must-have) to survive the tough encounters in FF12, turn-based isn't even in the realm of possibility. Debuffs are obviously a little bit more forgiving because of the Nihopaloa + Remedy trick, but beating most hunts when they first become available without at least Blind is very, very difficult.Obviously a TB game is more preferable in most cases, but for what FF12 is worth as a RTwP game, I think it's pretty good.
Yes, I may not like the combat system but for the record I don't consider that FF12 is particularly easy, it's certainly among the harder FFs if anything, and I understand that the higher challenge is something people like about the game.I said that turning the AI scripting on simply isn't auto winning the game. Yeah making a Gambit to cure bad ailments is easy to do, but it's a far cry from making the game easy mode.
Why someone would buy jrpg with full male cast?Just like with FF15
The price is laughable.
The price is laughable.
A running theme with JRPGs on Steam.
Well, they are made in Japan. And if I understand Codex politics, everything made in Japan goes to the jrpg forum.
In my opinion these are unfair arguments, using gambits and trying to optimize how to use them is obviously how the game is meant to be played. So much that the game does not give you any alternative way to control a party in this game, which really pisses me off, if there was an option to play the game like classic FFs then we would have a different debate. You certainly don't have to control zero character, the game gives you the possibility to control one and that's what I do, but more than one, not really.