Development Info Fallout 3 may have God-awful music and combat

[Seboss]

I'm pretty sure the guy have composed the theme for at least a couple Bruckheimer movies

 

[Pussycat669]

I just hope the guns drop down like in Metal Slug.

HEAVY MACHINE GUN!

RAWKET LAUNCHA!

Best. Game. Ever.

They should rip off the music as well to solve the problem. Some tracks from Metal Slug 5 seriously rocked.

 

[Seboss]

Oh and btw, for French codexers out there, Canard PC is by far the best French PC gaming magazine ever.
It's pretty much the only French mag that still gives objective, non-watered down reviews.
Well, they gave 9/10 to Oblivion and 6.5/10 to the Witcher but still, it's really worth the read. And it's funny as hell too.

 

[Chefe]

hello world

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Anyway the new weapons fit nicely in the same spirit of these ones.

Sure about that? I look at those weapons, and with the exception of the power fist and cattle prod, see a bunch of guns that shoot out what is basically white hot death. I don't see any goofy pulp weapons there, and I've don't recall any mention of research into them.

Check Amazing Science pulps, the 50's Flash Gordon reruns of the 30's series, what the original Fallout creators talked about the Science! weapons.

You'll have to forgive me, but I don't recall Cain, Boyarsky, and Anderson ever talking about weapons so....impractical.

This is appropriate to the setting and fun

I've already objected that it raises a few warning alarms in the context of the setting, and as for the fun aspect...I'm honestly doubting that too. Ice guns are pretty one trick in their applications. You freeze people, and then hit them with something to shatter them. Woo-fricken-hoo! If this wasn't done already in countless other games, all of which weren't burdened with Fallout 3's shitacular combat, it could be interesting and fresh. But it isn't. As for the Mesmotron...it's a freaking charm person wand shoehorned brutally into the setting. Charm in both Morrowind and Oblivion was totally shit and not high on the fun scale, and given Bethesda's inability to learn, I doubt it will get any better. Like I said before, typical shooter gimmick guns forcibly rammed into the setting to serve as selling points.

If things like these don't show up more often then it will be a Mad Max/Oblivion thing for sure, those weapons are the more falloutish stuff we've heard so far.

Whatever you say. It seems less "Fallouty" and more "Fallout2y" to me.

 

[Goral]

Honestly, I don't get the issue people have with the Cryolator/Mesmetron, they're pulp 50's. Maybe borderline, but that depends on how they're implemented. It's the flaming sword, nuke bazook launcher and rock-it-launcher that hold all the stupidity.
(...)

I think as well that Cryolator/Mesmetron don't fit in Fallout, they're too unrealistic, IMO. Hypnotysing gun?? WTF? If it could be gained in random UFO encounter as a joke then OK, but other than that it's just plain retarded. And if it's just stunning weapon, then maybe they should name it stunning gun ?
Cryolator is even more stupid. Exactly how could they remotely suck someone's energy momentarily (and that's what freezing is, the energy is being taken away) ? Also if they had such a gun, water wouldn't be a problem (as someone previously stated). Not to mention I don't think it would be a practical gun which could be easily acquired. No army in the world would use such ineffective gun, rather some which had better range and which killed instantly. Think, you freeze a guy, and someone shoots that guy, he explodes and a fragment of him pokes your eye.

]I'm no chemist so I have no clue how this stuff works, but I'm pretty sure a person would die if they consumed liquid nitrogen. This wouldn't help a water problem.

I'm no chemist either (just remember science lessons from high school) but firstly, humans' organism is composed mainly from water not nitrogen. Besides, who mentioned this gun could liquefy nitrogen? It would require even more energy resources. On the side note, it would be a bit difficult to damage oneself with liquid nitrogen because it evaporates too quickly.

 

[Human Shield]

You guys don't get it. Every spell effect from Obilivion is given a new fancy sci-fi gun model.

 

[Briosafreak]

I don't see any goofy pulp weapons there, and I've don't recall any mention of research into them.

...

Dude are you serious? Those are all 50's sci fi pulp inspired weapons. Where did you think they got the inspiration?...

 

[Helton]

I'm no chemist either (just remember science lessons from high school) but firstly, humans' organism is composed mainly from water not nitrogen. Besides, who mentioned this gun could liquefy nitrogen? It would require even more energy resources. On the side note, it would be a bit difficult to damage oneself with liquid nitrogen because it evaporates too quickly.

...

HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Been a while since I've seen stupid done so well.

 

[Seboss]

On the side note, it would be a bit difficult to damage oneself with liquid nitrogen because it evaporates too quickly.

Hmm yeah, having your body temperature going from 37°C to -273,15°C in a split second is an absolutely not traumatizing experience.
But yeah, I got your point. The problem lies in taking the liquid nitrogen from a gun of some sort to its target dozen of meters away while keeping the nitrogen cold enough to do some damage in the process. Sounds complicated indeed, but so do little laser beams that go pewpew and that's pretty much accepted in every sci-fi settings.

 

[ushdugery]

Re: Fallout 3 may have God-awful music

The author states that many dialog options have tags like [Lie], [Charm], [Intimidation], [Science] and so one. Very Biowary.

\/\/00+ Oblivion with Guns has moron indicators!

Would prefere the subtlety of the originals or Arcanum, but i still could live with WtM:B, which had the same ''moron indicators'' in form of a tint.

Fallout had those moron indicators too but they were a perk not worth getting.

 

[Section8]

Do you guys seriously think the Mesmetron actually belongs in this sort of setting? Sure it's goofy 1950's pulp, but it completely sidesteps the grittier influences. Most specifically, Fallout doesn't riff of "realism", but it does so enough that such a potent political tool as the Mesmetron would be a big fucking deal.

We can assume it's basically going to be "charm person" or whatever the Elder Scrolls equivalent is, so consider this - You have a personal infantry weapon that can control minds, and the effect is near-instantaneous (unlike extensive programs of hypnosis/brainwashing, etc.) Who the fuck would be building nukes when you could build a mass-scale mind control ray? Who would bother with power armour and miniguns when you could have a ninja hiding up a tree, mind controlling a single enemy soldier and telling him to pull the pin on his grenade?

We know Fallout isn't the real world. We know it has goofy pulp sci-fi influences. But that's no reason for a complete departure from sensibility to try and justify something with such epic ramifications as part of the Fallout world. Mind control is bigger than nukes, bigger than FEV, bigger than power armour... I mean, Imagine the possibilities!.

Again, it's a question of where you draw the line. Do you also include X-Ray specs, because they fit the goofy pulp aspects? The spacecraft of Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon? Brian Blessed as some kind of avian furfag? Do you let the player equip the ring of Ming the Merciless that lets him magically create natural disasters on a planet light years away? A rocket cycle, like the one that brought so many lulz in Fallout Tactics?

I think it's pretty safe to say, given the classic - "My idea is explore more of the world and more of the ethics of a postnuclear world, not to make a better plasma gun" quote from Tim Cain, that if such a thing as a Mesmetron was to exist in the Fallout world, it wouldn't be there as another way to shoehorn a cheap, shitty piece of parlour magic into a lifeless combat system, it would be there as an integral part of the societal and political issues at hand.

So fuck the Mesmetron. The cryolator doesn't offend quite as much, but you can bet it's like a pale shadow of the ice spell in Dark Messiah.

 

[Goral]

...

HAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Been a while since I've seen stupid done so well.

Written by ignoramus.

On the side note, it would be a bit difficult to damage oneself with liquid nitrogen because it evaporates too quickly.

Hmm yeah, having your body temperature going from 37°C to -273,15°C in a split second is an absolutely not traumatizing experience.

:D lol
Think before you write. Because liquid nitrogen evaporates very quickly (in a room temperature, 20 Celsius degrees) , before it damages you it's already in gas state again. So if you put your hand into a container with liquid nitrogen and put it out after 1-3 s there would be no such spectacular effect as if you put in there rubber ball and threw it on the wall (the ball would shatter with a bang).
So by "a bit difficult" I meant that you would have to be a complete retard and put your hand in liquid nitrogen for a long time.
More dangerous would be that the container with nitrogen could explode in your face since the liquid to gas expansion ratio of this substance is 1:694.

The problem lies in taking the liquid nitrogen from a gun of some sort to its target dozen of meters away while keeping the nitrogen cold enough to do some damage in the process. Sounds complicated indeed, but so do little laser beams that go pewpew and that's pretty much accepted in every sci-fi settings.

Nope. Laser guns have already been produced, but the problem lies with powering them so they could have enough power to actually damage someone. Nonetheless they can blind people, which could be considered as more humane way of neutralising enemies then killing. So yeah, I think this gun is retarded, and Fallout's weapons aren't.
This gun is there because they wanted kids to have fun like they have when play GTA and instead of doing missions they kill civilians using tank.

 

[match000]

This is slightly OT but.

It seems to me like the main beef (problem) with Bethsoft is that they aim for quantity over quality.

Too many same quests. Too many same dungeons. Too many same, stupid-effect, useless spells or "guns". Too many copy-paste-copy-paste things.

 

[kingcomrade]

... I mean, Imagine the possibilities!.

i fucking love patrick steward

 

[hiver]

I'm not the Fallout authority, but I honestly can't understand how these are cool at all, at least in the context of Fallout.

Anyway the new weapons fit nicely in the same spirit of these ones.

Check Amazing Science pulps, the 50's Flash Gordon reruns of the 30's series, what the original Fallout creators talked about the Science! weapons.

This is appropriate to the setting and fun, don't see what's the problem.

You know, i couldnt disagree more. And im glad you posted the link to original fallout weapons because it only makes clear how inappropriate these new ones are.

Ice gun? Theoretically i could live with it depending of implementation - it has to be really, really good and thought out with various interesting options of implementation and serious interesting drawbacks.
And i really, really doubt they will make it like that. Most likely it will be a freaking freeze ray with effects of lulz for the targeted audience.
"I froze the mutant and now im going to nuke it who ho ho!"

And mesmetron? Hypno ray? How in earth it could ever be good?

I though nukular catapult is the stupidest concept for a weapon i ever heard but this is close.
Are you going to be able to hypnotize an NPC to give you quests or rewards for them? NO.
Are you going to be able to hypnotize enemies for the lulz? YES.
And then freeze them and shoot them with mini nuklear bombs from the catapult.


Is it not crystal clear that these weapons have nothing to do with the world of Fallout? Especially when you look at the original weapons.
Is it not crystal clear that these weapons belong to the Flash Gordon setting and not Fallout?

And please dont even try (anybody) to make an argument of pulp 50s sci fi... because if that is the only merit then we should have aliens, attack from Mars, Giant robots stealing maidens, rockets for interstellar travel, teleporters (fast travel eh?), Flash Gordon himself and who knows what else.

Fifties Science fiction pulp cannot be an excuse or reasoning for any of these weapons.
If you accept that then its perfectly natural to have nukular catapult and nukular exploding cars in the game too.

Fallout only had an influence from 50s, not everything thrown in with a shovel. It had measure and sense of realism incorporated and thats why it worked. thats why it wasnt just a fifties Science fiction pulp game.

 

[Briosafreak]

Do you guys seriously think the Mesmetron actually belongs in this sort of setting?

Yes. I don't know why you guys want to change the Fallout canon into making it more Gears of Wars weapons like, but fine, suit yourself.

 

[hiver]

Oh yeah, because thats what we were talking about, right?

And i dont see why you would want to change it to be more Flash Gordon like either.

 

[pkt-zer0]

Yes. I don't know why you guys want to change the Fallout canon into making it more Gears of Wars weapons like, but fine, suit yourself.

Not adding these two weapons to the game = more Gears of War weapons-like, huh? Seems like FO1/2 resemble Gears of War more than FO3 will, then.

 

[Kingston]

Section8 is spot on. They. suck.

 

[fastpunk]

50s pulp sci-fi was indeed a part of the original Fallout but the Interplay team had a sense of measure, the presence of these elements was not overdone. That's why I think you're wrong, Briosafreak. The way Bethesda is portraying this world is just plain wrong. In their vision, the world is just littered with nuclear powered stuff and liquid nitrogen and mesmetrons and who knows what other shit will pop up next. That feels out of place in a world where expensive resources like that are really scarce.

 

[Briosafreak]

Yes. I don't know why you guys want to change the Fallout canon into making it more Gears of Wars weapons like, but fine, suit yourself.

Not adding these two weapons to the game = more Gears of War weapons-like, huh? Seems like FO1/2 resemble Gears of War more than FO3 will, then.

Because if you remove Science! weapons than all it will stay are pistols, ak's,G3s, uzis and the like.

Again I'm sorry but on this I agree with the wikipedia:

Fallout draws from 1950s pulp magazines, science fiction and superhero comic books, all rooted in Atomic Age optimism of a nuclear-powered future, though gone terribly awry by the time the events of the game take place. The technology is retro-futuristic, with various Raygun Gothic machines such as laser weaponry and boxy Forbidden Planet-style robots. Computers use vacuum tubes instead of transistors, architecture of ruined buildings feature Art Deco and Googie designs, energy weaponsresemble those used by Flash Gordon, and what few vehicles remain in the world are all 1950s-styled.

Fallout's other production design, such as menu interfaces, are similarly designed to resemble advertisements and toys of the Atomic Age. The characters sheet cards and perks available resemble those of the board game Monopoly, and other advertising in the game such as billboards and brochures have a distinct 1950s flavour. The lack of retro stylization was one of the things the Fallout spin-offs were criticized for, as retro-futurism is a hallmark of the Fallout series.

And with Tim Cain:

Seriously, the artists just thought that 50's tech looked cool. So they set out to make a future science that looked like what the Golden Era of science fiction thought that future science would look like (if you can follow that sentence). Vacuum tubes, ray guns, mutants, the whole works. And I think they succeeded quite well.

 

[pkt-zer0]

Because if you remove Science! weapons than all it will stay are pistols, ak's,G3s, uzis and the like.

Remove? I don't see anyone arguing that laser/plasma weapons would have to be removed, merely that the freeze/hypno guns shouldn't be added.
(Fallout 3 is more Fallouty that Fallout 1, lolz)

 

[hiver]

Because if you remove Science! weapons than all it will stay are pistols, ak's,G3s, uzis and the like.

Apart from removing all Science! weapons there is an alternative of implementing them with some sense measure and respect for established atmosphere and setting.

This seems too hard to grasp for certain people.

 

[Briosafreak]

Because if you remove Science! weapons than all it will stay are pistols, ak's,G3s, uzis and the like.

Remove? I don't see anyone arguing that laser/plasma weapons would have to be removed, merely that the freeze/hypno guns shouldn't be added.
(Fallout 3 is more Fallouty that Fallout 1, lolz)

Why remove one raygun and leave another, if both fit the setting, regardless of what you are saying?

Really this topic is about orchestral/epic/oblivionz music in the game, shouldn't you be complaining about that (and by the way about the real time combat description the french guy gives) instead of suddenly trying to remove an important part of the setting and flavor?