Fable

[mr. lamat]

the whole 'sims-gestures' form of communication is the scary part. forced plots aren't exactly new... but removing text from the game with an atari-like zeal is really bizarre and frightening.

 

[fnordcircle]

I've been following this game since it was Project Ego. My enthusiasm for it was through the roof at one point. Then the reality of a lot of what they are saying probably being smoke and mirrors set in.

Sure, KotoR had a Fight Club. But the reality was that it was just a mission. I fear the same with Fable. Changing the economy will be just a mission. Their fight club will be just a mission.

Fable also suffers from an apparent fence-syndrome where you get to enjoy the gorgeous forest only from one side of the fence since your hero can't jump over it.

I'll still buy the damn thing, but my hopes are at an all time low based on some choices they made. Unlimited arrows. Unlimited inventory. Blech.

How can you take a game which allows you to change from being the evilest bastard in the world to a nice guy just buy visiting an NPC seriously?

 

[Dhruin]

Why? The store im at ships stereo equipment out regularly. We dont get half completed speaker boxes in, to let us know how the companies are doing?

That was a silly comment. MS would definitely keep tabs on it, like all publishers do with every game. One of our editors recently visited the German publisher of a US development for a demo, for example.

 

[evilmonkey]

In the E3 report in Edge there was alot of doubt in Fable, mostly in the fact that they didn't really seem to have managed to work all the ideas into the game as first said, and that many workarounds was visible in the E3 showing.

They ended the report with that they will wait and see, but that they are sceptics when it comes to Lionhead pulling through in the end - & from what I've seen I agree.

 

[fnordcircle]

Why? The store im at ships stereo equipment out regularly. We dont get half completed speaker boxes in, to let us know how the companies are doing?

Stupidest thing I've read in a month.

 

[Quigs]

Really? I figured your tenticle women hentai would be up there, but you would know best.

 

[StraitLacedDeviant]

He does know better at least, that

Why? The store im at ships stereo equipment out regularly. We dont get half completed speaker boxes in, to let us know how the companies are doing?

is one of the stupidest things i've read to date...

 

[Arcadian Del Sol]

Peter M is also responsible for the flashy but feature free Black & White, so while Populous may have been a really fun 16bit game once upon a long long time ago - he's also known for making all kinds of Star Trekish designs for games that we wont have the proper technology to create for another 40 years.

Any day now, I expect him to announce that Black & White III will actually give birth of a pet that will spring forth from your DVD drive - just dont feed it after midnight.

 

[errorcode]

<snipped>

 

[errorcode]

<snipped>

 

[Darkwaters]

I think Fable is going to be a huge letdown honestly. It has so much build up and frankly I don't think it will be nearly as extensive as you think.

Remember how Fallout promised that you could do all manner of things like getting married and then pimping your wife...well, could you take her out and pimp her everywhere you went...no...I think Fable will be the same manner of letdown. Sure, those things happen, but they are isolated to certain areas and/or key events.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the game will be good, just not the masterpiece everyone thinks it will be.

 

[Quigs]

if all the things errorcode said are true, then I need to apologize. Right now though, its more of a "he said she said" thing going on, and there are more people who have played fable who like it, then those who havent.

 

[errorcode]

dude, i just want you to be braced for it. If you're looking for the ultimate RPG experience, Fable won't be it. If you want a pretty action/adventure type game then fable might be a blast for ya.

Rent it first, try it for a weekend, and then decide. I just don't want anyone giving BBB and that asshat Peter Molynuex a single fucking cent if they think they're buying an RPG.

 

[dipdipdip]

So the game's now just a grab-bag of sidequests that happens to feature part-time villainy and the most limited character interaction EVER(!)?

 

[Quigs]

dip, depends on the interaction part.

does having 4 for a question constitute interaction?
I still think its great someone can ask you to do something for them, and you can flip em the bird. EVERYtime. sure it will get old fast, but still...

 

[Sylonious]

actually those people working on "AI" hates the term "AI", because it is too wide a term to describe alot of different disiplines, and it carries a certain baggage.

one of my profs described it best when he said "AI is just a temporary term people use to describe a new field, before they found a more proper term for it".

it ranges from speech processing, langugage processing, fuzzy logic, neural network, knowledge based systems, contraint programming, evolutionary/genetic algo, etc. too many to list.

the "AI" that we're seeing in games these days are mostly scripted events, simply because other fields have not progressed sufficiently for realistic behaviour. Hence, when event A occurs, B triggers, etc.

some of these (neural networks and mathematical programming) are black boxes and you do not know the output until it is out. this is in contrast to scripting.

neural network has been used in some of the FPS games, in which the program analyses your combat moves and attempt to outsmart you. Again, these are still very primitive and may not work all the time.

the other good example is Black n White. Sadly i never played it but supposedly you can train your "pet" to do certain things. I believe the underlying engine has some neural network, plus alot of clever scripting, to make it work. I've read it doesn't always work. the pet "forgets" certain things too early, etc.

Now imagine, supposing we have a sufficiently advanced language processing technology, and you can converse with the NPC? Or trully adaptive NPC behaviour using neural networks that reacts to your action? Or NPC that recognizes some of the actions you did, on a level that is not scripted?

some of these technologies still have a long way to go. each are very limited to what they do. the best processor, fortunately or unfortunately, is still our brain.

I love when people dislike a game because it's too "scripted".

nothing wrong with the idea of scripting actually. if the designer has catered to sufficiently large number of scenarios that a player may do, and script all these scenarios accordingly, the player may still find himself immersed in a pretty life-like world.

Well, If you put it that way Fable does have scripted events. In terms of this generation of consoles I would consider it A.I. because how could I differientiate the A.I. in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City and the Scripted Events in the Final Fantasy series. I personally don't think Fable will be like living in a realistic world but I am anticipating it solely because it in my opinion will probably be the best alternative for this generation of Consoles. Maybe with the next Generation of Consoles Fable's gameplay might not even be acceptable but who knows.

 

[Sylonious]

Questions about Fable.

dude, i just want you to be braced for it. If you're looking for the ultimate RPG experience, Fable won't be it. If you want a pretty action/adventure type game then fable might be a blast for ya.

Rent it first, try it for a weekend, and then decide. I just don't want anyone giving BBB and that asshat Peter Molynuex a single fucking cent if they think they're buying an RPG.

Well, Sudeki is coming out soon what about that?

 

[T}{E~ONE]

i would like to say one thing about all this talk about AI and scripting....... Who cares as long as its a good game and fun to play i dont care i mean dose it matter how u make a sandwich as long as it tastes good right?

 

[Anonymous]

T}{E~0NE shows exactly why games today suck.

 

[errorcode]

Re: Questions about Fable.

dude, i just want you to be braced for it. If you're looking for the ultimate RPG experience, Fable won't be it. If you want a pretty action/adventure type game then fable might be a blast for ya.

Rent it first, try it for a weekend, and then decide. I just don't want anyone giving BBB and that asshat Peter Molynuex a single fucking cent if they think they're buying an RPG.

Well, Sudeki is coming out soon what about that?

i've heard mixed reviews. I work with a couple guys who were on that project and one says it's actually really fun and the other says it blows donkey balls. It's on my "Rent and see" list.

 

[errorcode]

i would like to say one thing about all this talk about AI and scripting....... Who cares as long as its a good game and fun to play i dont care i mean dose it matter how u make a sandwich as long as it tastes good right?

i think he has a point, simply because a game really doesn't need complex scripting or deep AI if it can make an enjoyable game using a simpler infrastructure.

AI and scripting is great, but it's only a part of what makes for an enjoyable game. I think of it like a movies soundtrack. If it's really good i hardly notice it, but if it sucks it ruins the whole movie.

 

[Stark]

Well, If you put it that way Fable does have scripted events. In terms of this generation of consoles I would consider it A.I. because how could I differientiate the A.I. in Grand Theft Auto: Vice City and the Scripted Events in the Final Fantasy series. I personally don't think Fable will be like living in a realistic world but I am anticipating it solely because it in my opinion will probably be the best alternative for this generation of Consoles. Maybe with the next Generation of Consoles Fable's gameplay might not even be acceptable but who knows.

I'm all cool with clever scripting and all, and making the world react to your action believably, but problem is Peter M hyped alot, generated alot of expectations, and it seems most of it will not deliver, or delivered in a very superficial manner that do not add value to gameplay (eg: getting married that do not open up new story/interaction)

As I said, people working in the field of true AI actually feel kinda uncomfortable with the term "AI" and prefer people to address it in the specific field. The term AI carries with it a certain common misconception and baggage. Personally I'd prefer to call scripting as scripting and not use the term AI at all, since technically scripting is, well, just scripting.

The best scripting I've seen is the NPC behaviours in Gothic. It's unfortunate this game receives so little attention and in some cases even some bad reviews. Try walking into someone's house and see what happens.

i would like to say one thing about all this talk about AI and scripting....... Who cares as long as its a good game and fun to play i dont care i mean dose it matter how u make a sandwich as long as it tastes good right?

well, to a certain degree i agree. so long as the developer scripted sufficient scenarios and create sufficiently believable NPC reaction, it's as good as using sophisticated technology to achieve the same effect. problem is, this line of reasoning deters developers from trying new things, especially true these past few years, where sole advancement seem to be on graphic alone. gameplay and NPC reaction has not advanced much, or at all (actually in some cases it has taken steps backward).

 

[Darkwaters]

What else has Peter molynuex put out that sucked or didn't meet up to its expectations?

 

[fnordcircle]

What else has Peter molynuex put out that sucked or didn't meet up to its expectations?

Black and White. Also known as 'We need X'.

Stark pretty much explained exactly how I feel. Things that they made sound dynamic and alive will be in, but will just be a static event with a crappy cutscene and/or no real impact to the gaming world.

For fuck's sake you can go to a temple and become a good guy in 5 minutes after playing as an evil prick for days and days and vice versa

 

[dipdipdip]

Though I usually have no will-power where these things are concerned (for fuck's sake, I bought FOBOS!!!), I really do think I'll be renting this one first.

Thanks for the heads up.