KickStarter Everquest Next will kill WoW

[Sycophantic Noob]

And take it's stuff.

But really, any original EQ fans here? This game is building a lot of hype around it. Jeremy Soule is doing the music. And it will be the only MMO built ground up to work on Occulus Rift.

It will also be f2p, so you can bet both WoW and ESO will be feeling the hurt pretty bad.

Another unique thing about this game is the art style:

Everquest Next utilizes a more stylized art style in order to reach a variety of design goals. By using a stylized look and feel, EverQuest Next attempts to evoke an emotional response from players, envision heroic fantasy, and age more gracefully as time goes on. For example, shadows can have a blue tint to them. Because blue is a cool colour, it helps to show contrast between shade and heat. Light still moves realistically, however.

 

[Xenich]

I was excited about this game, but after looking into it a bit a while ago, I realized it is just mainstream garbage having nothing to do with the roots of its predecessor.

The art is fine, but it really is just WoW with some basic artistic differences. I would have preferred EQ Next to have taken a more serious route rather than the cartoon look and feel. Though maybe that is the price they pay for the technical functionality of the world.

As for FTP from the start, that tells me it will be a gimmick RMT game with tons of PTW features all justified by "convenience" excuses and the games development will center around this idea. Look to EQ2 if you want to see what the game will be like in terms of its "FTP" model.

The game itself is a marketing gimmick all the way around. From Occulus Rift, to the Minecraft world, to the WoW imitation style in both look and play, the game wreaks of a design by "formula" approach.

That is not to say that the game doesn't have some interesting features. I really believe that voxel based engines and the pursuit of complete control and interaction of the environment by the player is the way to go for design, but Sony is a company that can no longer bring meaningful innovation. They don't create, they mimic and EQ next is just a mimic of several popular fad games. EQ Next has more in common with WoW and ESO than it does EQ. Being an old EQ player from Beta 1, this game has nothing to do with EQ and should not appeal to any EQ player on those grounds.

Now I am not saying the game won't be a success. It has already been proven that success has nothing to do with quality, but I don't see the game as anything more than the fad gimmick that it is.

 

[TheGreatOne]

Now I am not saying the game won't be a success.

It won't, as long as WoW exists.

 

[Ranselknulf]

I think most of the original EQ fans either don't play mmo's anymore or they play on emulators.

Everquest Next isn't a surprise to anybody who actually plays the EQ games right now. It is actually catering to their current market because all versions of EQ are essentially the same free to play with pay for convenience stuff.


Wasn't there already a thread on this? http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/everquest-next.84057/

 

[Sycophantic Noob]

I was excited about this game, but after looking into it a bit a while ago, I realized it is just mainstream garbage having nothing to do with the roots of its predecessor.

The art is fine, but it really is just WoW with some basic artistic differences. I would have preferred EQ Next to have taken a more serious route rather than the cartoon look and feel. Though maybe that is the price they pay for the technical functionality of the world.

As for FTP from the start, that tells me it will be a gimmick RMT game with tons of PTW features all justified by "convenience" excuses and the games development will center around this idea. Look to EQ2 if you want to see what the game will be like in terms of its "FTP" model.

The game itself is a marketing gimmick all the way around. From Occulus Rift, to the Minecraft world, to the WoW imitation style in both look and play, the game wreaks of a design by "formula" approach.

That is not to say that the game doesn't have some interesting features. I really believe that voxel based engines and the pursuit of complete control and interaction of the environment by the player is the way to go for design, but Sony is a company that can no longer bring meaningful innovation. They don't create, they mimic and EQ next is just a mimic of several popular fad games. EQ Next has more in common with WoW and ESO than it does EQ. Being an old EQ player from Beta 1, this game has nothing to do with EQ and should not appeal to any EQ player on those grounds.

Now I am not saying the game won't be a success. It has already been proven that success has nothing to do with quality, but I don't see the game as anything more than the fad gimmick that it is.

Sony has another great MMO DC Universe Online. It's actually pretty good, and is not pay 2 win at all. The majority of the stuff you pay real money for is simple aesthetics, and all is optional. The cartoony look both attracts WoW players, ensures the game runs on older systems/consoles and also has longevity/ages well.

 

[Xenich]

Now I am not saying the game won't be a success.

It won't, as long as WoW exists.

Yeah, I think most WoW players won't play it (well, they will buy it, play it, then go back to WoW).

 

[Dr Tomo]

but Sony is a company that can no longer bring meaningful innovation.

To be honest they did innovate with Landmark, they can have the player base work for free in creating the world of Everquest Next using voxelmancy. If my participation of Everquest Landmark told me anything, the game is probably going have crappy support from Sony and only the die hard will keep blowing smoke up people's asses saying the game is fine.

Sony has another great MMO DC Universe Online. It's actually pretty good, and is not pay 2 win at all. The majority of the stuff you pay real money for is simple aesthetics, and all is optional. The cartoony look both attracts WoW players, ensures the game runs on older systems/consoles and also has longevity/ages well.

Mediocre at best and with a small population in comparison to many other mmo's and a micro transaction store actually similar to Trion's Rift (so not really just simple aesthetics).

 

[Kem0sabe]

I like what i have seen so far of the game, if their F2P model is shit, i might get it, even better if it was B2P like GW2.

 

[Xenich]

To be honest they did innovate with Landmark, they can have the player base work for free in creating the world of Everquest Next using voxelmancy. If my participation of Everquest Landmark told me anything, the game is probably going have crappy support from Sony and only the die hard will keep blowing smoke up people's asses saying the game is fine.

Landmark is pretty much just a Minecraft ripoff though, so it isn't really innovative.

 

[Dr Tomo]

Landmark is pretty much just a Minecraft ripoff though, so it isn't really innovative.

It was never to rip off Minecraft, the purpose of the game is have the player base "unleash their creativity" using voxelmancy. The genius is that it allows the developers to just import the creations into the EQ Next and not really compensate the players and give the players the illusion that they are accomplishing something with their life. The sweetest part is that people actually paid $20-50 to be given the opportunity to enter the game.

 

[Xenich]

It was never to rip off Minecraft, the purpose of the game is have the player base "unleash their creativity" using voxelmancy. The genius is that it allows the developers to just import the creations into the EQ Next and not really compensate the players and give the players the illusion that they are accomplishing something with their life. The sweetest part is that people actually paid $20-50 to be given the opportunity to enter the game.

Well, that may be so, but it still isn't innovative. I mean, charging you to do their work isn't a new concept, it has been a cancerous practice for many years now in all business. The sad thing is that it can only work if you populace is stupid enough to accept it.

 

[Xenich]

The cartoony look both attracts WoW players, ensures the game runs on older systems/consoles and also has longevity/ages well.

Thing is, that really is only an excuse. You can make the game look more "realistic" and still have it be conservative on machine requirements. They make the game cartoony because they are trying to market to the WoW crowd. I mean, look at the style, it is like they hired on Blizzards artists to do the work.

I am unsure if the game will tank (EQ Next, not Landmark), but if I was a betting man, I would put my money on that it will. One thing that is certain with the WoW crowd is that they are consistent in their behavior. New game comes out, they rush to it, whine about it not feeling like their "bestest best mmo of all time" WoW and so they run back to WoW only to whine and complain about that while they drone on through its mundane content. It is like clockwork with every new MMO release. WoW at one time may have had some appeal, but all it is riding on now is nostalgia. It is just like those who still play EQ today. They know the game is nothing like it was, but they continue to play it because it is the closest thing to what they remember enjoying. All the WoW clones imitate modern WoW, which is a failure and so it is natural to see WoW players dismiss it as garbage because in all honesty, they don't even like WoW in its current state.

 

[Xenich]

I like what i have seen so far of the game, if their F2P model is shit, i might get it, even better if it was B2P like GW2.

If their F2P model is shit? All F2P models are shit.

 

[Sycophantic Noob]

To be honest they did innovate with Landmark, they can have the player base work for free in creating the world of Everquest Next using voxelmancy. If my participation of Everquest Landmark told me anything, the game is probably going have crappy support from Sony and only the die hard will keep blowing smoke up people's asses saying the game is fine.


Mediocre at best and with a small population in comparison to many other mmo's and a micro transaction store actually similar to Trion's Rift (so not really just simple aesthetics).

No not mediocre, it's the best superhero MMO around. Probably because it's the only real supers MMO around. The overall population may be small, but this is mitigated by the fact all of Americas is on one server, and same with all of EU. I have never had to wait for more players to do an instant, for example. Plus there are not so many payers that it feels crowded. Regarding pay 2 win, no, there is nothing really there that is pay to win. I regularly trounce other players in pvp that are around my level. Only players much higher in level than me can trounce me.

Oh and speaking of levels, the game only has 30 levels, and is designed for both long term playing and pick up and play.

Basically, it's good for what it is. Which is the best one can say about MMOs.

 

[bloodlover]

So... Who has a key?

 

[Jaesun]

Nothing is going to topple WoW for a very long time..... (subscription number wise).

 

[Xenich]

Nothing is going to topple WoW for a very long time..... (subscription number wise).

Nothing will topple WoW EVER in terms of subscription. WoW was a fluke that made its market off the console/non-gamer market and that will never happen again. It was the "newness" factor that drove people to that game and it is only the "nostalgia" factor that keeps them playing or coming back to the game now. Nothing can ever compete with it and those who try end up pissing off their investors to which they eventually fold. If a company came out with an MMO that wasn't a WoW clone gimmick and shot for a 300-500k sub base of a niche crowd, they would do just fine (providing they weren't idiots who failed terribly in their attention to their product). Problem is... most investors are fucking impatient idiots who think they should hit the lottery with instant pay off when they invest. It is why all MMOs end up being used car sales cash grabs. It is the only way they can promise their investors a large quick return.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I think most of the original EQ fans either don't play mmo's anymore or they play on emulators.

Everquest Next isn't a surprise to anybody who actually plays the EQ games right now. It is actually catering to their current market because all versions of EQ are essentially the same free to play with pay for convenience stuff.


Wasn't there already a thread on this? http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/everquest-next.84057/

It'd be impossible to recapture the feeling of playing EQ back in the day. Back before it was commonplace to have maps of every area and loot tables and guides for every enemy and quest. Back then, you'd just wander into an unfamiliar space and shit your pants if you saw a giant or griffon or something move past you. Getting a character from one side of the continent to the other was an actual adventure, and you'd be surprised by everything along the way. You didn't have a map. At best you know your x,y coordinates and know the coordinates for your goal, but who the fuck knows the safe route to get there. And dying was actually scary because all your equipment stayed on your corpse.

 

[Ranselknulf]

yah.. being able to just adventure without the information overload of charts / tables / graphs / maps / quest compasses.

The only way to get that somewhat now is with procedurally generated zones in single player games. Too bad procedurally generated quests are stupid and lack complexity.

 

[Xenich]

It'd be impossible to recapture the feeling of playing EQ back in the day. Back before it was commonplace to have maps of every area and loot tables and guides for every enemy and quest. Back then, you'd just wander into an unfamiliar space and shit your pants if you saw a giant or griffon or something move past you. Getting a character from one side of the continent to the other was an actual adventure, and you'd be surprised by everything along the way. You didn't have a map. At best you know your x,y coordinates and know the coordinates for your goal, but who the fuck knows the safe route to get there. And dying was actually scary because all your equipment stayed on your corpse.

Maps, loot tables, and guides existed online in EQ, even in the early days. It is just that most people didn't obsess over them like people do today. The Secret World showed you that content can still have secrets and be about exploring/puzzle solving without it being ruined by the internet.

Here is the thing. If you were going to create another EQ, you wouldn't be marketing it to the people who would rush off to the cheat sites to get all the info so they can fast track through the game. Those are the people they are currently catering to and that is why you have retardedly easy games with tons of mundane fed ex quest grinds and "level to max in a day" content.

EQ can be made again today, it would just have a small niche crowd and it would be a constant "whine fest" for all the WoW players that tried it. Much like early LoTRO was, where the idiots whined about difficult dungeons, having to read and deduce quests, and having to explore to progress in the game. They turned that game into WoW at the behest of the WoW players.. yet how many WoW players do you find there these days? Yep... Good job Turbine, you fucking morons.

 

[Xenich]

yah.. being able to just adventure without the information overload of charts / tables / graphs / maps / quest compasses.

The only way to get that somewhat now is with procedurally generated zones in single player games. Too bad procedurally generated quests are stupid and lack complexity.

That or market to a crowd who has self control and doesn't think they have to follow hint/map sites to enjoy the game. In TSW, I never looked at the cheat sites. It meant that some missions took a while to finish. I remember it taking me over a week to finish a couple of the really hard ones as I had to mull it over a while before it came to me. Like I said, though... you have to market to gamers and not tools looking to be entertained.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Idk if marketing to that type of a niche would work because it would be simple enough for people who weren't interested in that type of gameplay to control the gameworld. People jump from game to game as it is and play however they want. It'd be really hard to keep that type of player out of a game without a private server invitation type deal.

Unless it wasn't a massive mmo but more of a small scale shared adventure type thing with a limited number of people. Maybe something ala neverwinter nights mods with gameplay centered around players hosting and setting up their own private worlds and deciding upon the rules and gameplay they desire, then only inviting those who conform and booting those who don't.

Of course that type of solution has it's own political problems as well.

 

[Night Goat]

Nothing will topple WoW EVER in terms of subscription. WoW was a fluke that made its market off the console/non-gamer market and that will never happen again. It was the "newness" factor that drove people to that game and it is only the "nostalgia" factor that keeps them playing or coming back to the game now. Nothing can ever compete with it and those who try end up pissing off their investors to which they eventually fold. If a company came out with an MMO that wasn't a WoW clone gimmick and shot for a 300-500k sub base of a niche crowd, they would do just fine (providing they weren't idiots who failed terribly in their attention to their product). Problem is... most investors are fucking impatient idiots who think they should hit the lottery with instant pay off when they invest. It is why all MMOs end up being used car sales cash grabs. It is the only way they can promise their investors a large quick return.

Ever? Do you really think that WoW will be on top in ten years? Fifty? A thousand?

 

[Ranselknulf]

The current manifestation of MMO's will be meaningless when the technological paradigms shift in 50 or even 20 years.

I doubt vr tech will be labeled as mmo.. probably virtual worlds or some other nonsense acronym they come up with.

 

[Xenich]

Ever? Do you really think that WoW will be on top in ten years? Fifty? A thousand?

On top? No, WoW will eventually die out, but other than the numbers that some asian MMOs get, you will "likely" never see another WoW subscription dominance. As I said, WoWs success was due to a market newness and timing of technology. When WoW was released, computers were just starting to be affordable and common in the average household. That, combined with the fact that the console market was stagnating and what you got was a massive market of "non-gamers" and "console gamers" being dazzled by the MMO experience. A first time MMO experience is a powerful thing. There is a reason why UO, EQ, and Asherons Call are still holding subs. WoW grabbed a massive influx of people who were new to their first MMO. It is that, and well... WoW has aged better (look and system feel of play) than some of the first MMOs which contributes to those masses returning to the game from time to time.

So that is why no game will ever top it. That is, in the sense as we know an MMO to be. I think Flunklesnarkin is on point here, that there may be a new gimmick that pulls a massive crowd, but it won't be an MMO in the sense that we recognize them today.