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[EG]

I don't really see how they could prepare anything substantial. r.

I don't see why not. But the argument doesn't lead anywhere. You guys say that they are not giving us enough info, I say they do. We are different people, you expect solid plans from devs right from the start, I wouldn't care if they have started brainstorming only after their KS start. Right now they are doing enough money to reach Double Fine's goal, that's enough for me.

I just want to feel as though I'm a part of the process, man. That's what they promised! That's what all the indie projects promised!

 

[Mrowak]

I don't really see how they could prepare anything substantial. r.

I don't see why not. But the argument doesn't lead anywhere. You guys say that they are not giving us enough info, I say they do. We are different people, you expect solid plans from devs right from the start, I wouldn't care if they have started brainstorming only after their KS start. Right now they are doing enough money to reach Double Fine's goal, that's enough for me.

We are concerned at what the lack of plans means - in any field of business it usually signifies poor management. No amount of money will save them if they manage it poorly. There' sa reason why you have to give your preliminary plan first, before you are going to see any money, you know? That's the ultimate weakness of Kickstarter, which -I fear - is going to bite Obsidian in the arse.

 

[Volrath]

I'm not seeing this mismanagement of resources, some obtuse people on the codex keep saying it, but I'm still not seeing it.

Because they don't have them yet? The campaign isn't over. Now if you look at their past titles, I say there's some cause for concern.

After getting buttfucked by publishers. As far as I know, they didn't get buttfucked by Square and DS3 turned out fine, if not banal shit boring.

 

[Infinitron]

The very fact that Obsidian still exists means their management is at least competent.

 

[J_C]

That's the ultimate weakness of Kickstarter, which -I fear - is going to bite Obsidian in the arse.

Well let's just hope it won't.

I think not having solid plans (although I think they have) doesn't necessery means that they will fail.
Sigh, we are starting to act like publishers. Put out your plans, reach the milestones! What's next, we will shoot down some projects because they are not profitable enough?

 

[Mrowak]

Sigh, we are starting to act like publishers. Put out your plans, reach the milestones! What's next, we will shoot down some projects because they are not profitable enough?

Why not? It's our money that's at stake here. You can bet that closer to W2 and PE's release dates the net will be rife with people demanding results and going into butthurt mode after beta.

 

[EG]

The very fact that Interplay still exists means their management is at least competent.

 

[J_C]

The very fact that Interplay still exists means their management is at least competent.

The very fact that Obsidian still exists, approached by publishers and constantly makes games mean their management is at least competent.

Fixed.

 

[J_C]

Sigh, we are starting to act like publishers. Put out your plans, reach the milestones! What's next, we will shoot down some projects because they are not profitable enough?

Why not? It's our money that's at stake here. You can bet that closer to W2 and PE's release dates the net will be rife with people demanding results and going into butthurt mode after beta.

It will be glorious.

 

[Infinitron]

Seriously:

Obsidian is a privately owned, medium sized developer. They're located in the United States, on the West Coast. They exclusively make RPGs (for a loose definition of that term depending on your purity level). They have a reputation for bugginess. They have no IP of their own.

All of the odds are stacked against them, yet they endure. Feargus must be doing something right.

 

[Mrowak]

I'm not seeing this mismanagement of resources, some obtuse people on the codex keep saying it, but I'm still not seeing it.

Because they don't have them yet? The campaign isn't over. Now if you look at their past titles, I say there's some cause for concern.

After getting buttfucked by publishers. As far as I know, they didn't get buttfucked by Square and DS3 turned out fine, if not banal shit boring.

After Alpha Protocol, when Square Enix enfoced 8 months delay during which they did nothing to fix serious issues with the game, I am not so convinced by the trite "but that's them publishers - they are evil" line of defence.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not seeing this mismanagement of resources, some obtuse people on the codex keep saying it, but I'm still not seeing it.

Because they don't have them yet? The campaign isn't over. Now if you look at their past titles, I say there's some cause for concern.

After getting buttfucked by publishers. As far as I know, they didn't get buttfucked by Square and DS3 turned out fine, if not banal shit boring.

After Alpha Protocol, when Square Enix enfoced 8 months delay during which they did nothing to fix serious issues with the game, I am not so convinced by the trite "but that's them publishers - they are evil" line of defence.

Sega.

 

[Mrowak]

Sega.

Whatever. It still came out broken. Yes, I am really curious how they are going to handle things on their own this time around. So far they are not doing good job, from business perspective.

 

[Infinitron]

After Alpha Protocol, when Square Enix enfoced 8 months delay during which they did nothing to fix serious issues with the game

No funding? No permission? What was the explanation for this?

 

[Mrowak]

After Alpha Protocol, when Square Enix enfoced 8 months delay during which they did nothing to fix serious issues with the game

No funding? No permission? What was the explanation for this?

There was none explanation (other than Sega didn't want to copete with ME). Still, the game spent 8 months waiting in a broken state. That's the point.

Seeing how they are managing their campaign I begin to see the other side of the story. If I was a publisher and if someone approached with with something so vague... well... even if I accepted that I sure like hell would want to have more control over what they are doing - including inserting my own stuff so as to secure the profit.

 

[J_C]

Wait a minute. Let's just have a look at Mrowak's facebook page!
...
...

I knew it. The jig is up Kotick!

Seeing how they are managing their campaign I begin to see the other side of the story. If I was a publisher and if someone approached with with something so vague... well... even if I accepted that I sure like hell would want to have more control over what they are doing - including inserting my own stuff so as to secure the profit

Fuck. That is the mentality that brings down the cRPG genre. If someone doesn't do something your way, you start to meddle with things you don't know shit about. I'd rather let them do it their ways, instead of fucking up the project and dumbing it down. You know, to ensure the profit.

Again, they are managing their campaign well, in terms of finances they are doing better than others.

 

[Mrowak]

Wait a minute. Let's just have a look at Mrowak's facebook page!
...
...

I knew it. The jig is up Kotick!

One day, when you open your own business you will realise that you don't have as much time and patience for bullshit as you used to have.

 

[J_C]

Wait a minute. Let's just have a look at Mrowak's facebook page!
...
...
pic
I knew it. The jig is up Kotick!

One day, when you open your own business you will realise that you don't have as much time and patience for bullshit as you used to have.

Me opening a business is unlikely. I'm working on a different field.

 

[IronicNeurotic]

I'm not seeing this mismanagement of resources, some obtuse people on the codex keep saying it, but I'm still not seeing it.

Because they don't have them yet? The campaign isn't over. Now if you look at their past titles, I say there's some cause for concern.

After getting buttfucked by publishers. As far as I know, they didn't get buttfucked by Square and DS3 turned out fine, if not banal shit boring.

After Alpha Protocol, when Square Enix enfoced 8 months delay during which they did nothing to fix serious issues with the game, I am not so convinced by the trite "but that's them publishers - they are evil" line of defence.

That's not even right. Sega literary sat these 8 months on the version of the game without Obsidian allowing to do anything. Afterwards they sat on the patch for 4 months as well.


Also, you guys are idiots and full on retarded. They are currently replicating a success (Double Fine) and quite possible will surpass that success which was said it will never be surpassed due to Kickstarter being new back then. And don't come with the fucking explanation that this kickstarter should make more. Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun: Returns both didn't manage it and they were the same. Banner Saga who banked on the fucking BIOWARE name only made 600'000 something.

Not to mention they put out frequent updates on a daily basis. Something which hasn't been done before either.


You're fuckwits.

 

[Mrowak]

Wait a minute. Let's just have a look at Mrowak's facebook page!

Fuck. That is the mentality that brings down the cRPG genre. If someone doesn't do something your way, you start to meddle with things you don't know shit about. I'd rather let them do it their ways, instead of fucking up the project and dumbing it down. You know, to ensure the profit.

That was also my point. Consider this:

If I realise that you as my contractor don't have clear vision of the product but I potentially see the the venue for me gaining a profit in it I may invest my money - but don't be surprised that I meddle in your "creative process", because I really want to have the ROI as high as possible, and I don't believe you know what you are doing. An example of ignoring this simple principle: Duke Nukem Forever.

On the other hand, if you approached me with a clear plan, specifying your goals, giving me a realistic outline of how the funds I am to give to you are going to be used, what profit I would gain and when I can expect results, then - my friend - I am going to be much less inclined to meddle with you, because my confidence in your abilities is much higher. I simply know that you know what you are doing.

It's as simple as that. I do not deny that these days publishers are warped, but seeing what is going on I begin to realise what made them into what they are.

Again, they are managing their campaign well, in terms of finances they are doing better than others.

Business is not about gethering the largest amount of money - it's what you actually are going to do with that money and how you are going to accomplish it (else every con-artist would be a great businessman).

I *hope* you are right - I *hope* they achieve all of their lofty goals. That's why I supported the campaign myself. But on reflection that's the basket we are riding on - *hope* backed by their collective experience. I wish there was something more in there.

 

[EG]

The very fact that Interplay still exists means their management is at least competent.

The very fact that Obsidian still exists, approached by publishers and constantly makes games mean their management is at least competent.

Fixed.

You ruined a beautiful correction, J_C . . . and failed to make it a quote.

Ruiner.

 

[J_C]

On the other hand, if you approached me with a clear plan, specifying your goals, giving me a realistic outline of how the funds I am to give to you are going to be used, what profit I would gain and when I can expect results, then - my friend - I am going to be much less inclined to meddle with you, because my confidence in your abilities is much higher. I simply know that you know what you are doing.

I know that you are right. But let's face it, if Fargo comes to a publisher with W2's plan, it wouldn't get funded. Same for PE.

And we all get back to the fact that not showing us the whole plan doesn't mean that they don't have one.

 

[Mrowak]

On the other hand, if you approached me with a clear plan, specifying your goals, giving me a realistic outline of how the funds I am to give to you are going to be used, what profit I would gain and when I can expect results, then - my friend - I am going to be much less inclined to meddle with you, because my confidence in your abilities is much higher. I simply know that you know what you are doing.

I know that you are right. But let's face it, if Fargo comes to a publisher with W2's plan, it wouldn't get funded. Same for PE.

And we all get back to the fact that not showing us the whole plan doesn't mean that they don't have one.

They don't have one. I can clearly see that from their stretch goals - they are not thought through - especially the initial ones. Integration of all those extras is going to be painful and long process. And unprecedented for the amount of money they are going for (even if they get 3 mlns).

 

[Infinitron]

Except stretch goals aren't related to the business plan. They're basically a marketing tool.

Derp, what is the point of this thread? Mail Feargus and ask him if he has a business plan.

 

[Mrowak]

Except stretch goals aren't related to the business plan. They're basically a marketing tool.

That should be specified in the project plan. Why? Because they are going to influence the development process, including deadlines and spending.

It's a beautiful dream we are all dreaming, but without roots in reality it can promptly turn into nightmere.

Meh, I grew tired of this.