Endless Space

[Trash]

After giving Endless Space a few playthroughs I must say that my conclusion is that while it's a promising game it really needs more patches and content to even come close to the big names in the genre.

Let's start with the good tho. The UI is really nice. Which is a big positive in this genre. Sound is more than adequate and the music is more than good. Graphics are very crisp and well done as well. Not to mention atmospheric. The system view and the battles are really something and they very well get across that the universe is old and lived in. I read that they took inspiration from Brin's Uplift novels and it shows. I like it. Research trees are large and have species specific parts, which lends some uniqueness to them. Building up your empire is done in the time old honored tradition and works nicely. Game really has that 'one more turn' thing going for it as well.

While all the bare bones are there for a great 4x game however it falls flat for me due to the lack of content. Invasions for instance are just a button and a timer. Nothing else to it. No defenses, no strategy, nothing. Just a timer. Planetary bombardments are also not in the game. Which I find a shame since it lends more options to an attack and gives you a chance to raid and weaken your foes. I loved the games in which you can do all sorts of nasty by deciding to drop down asteroids, bioweapons or even mass drivers to hurt the enemy. Endless Space does use pirates as a kind of 'space monster' but apart from blockading a system and provide fodder they don't do much else. No raiding of space lanes, no hit on commerce, no pirate bases to destroy and no option to hire them and send to the neighbours.

Speaking of commerce. It is in the game but I really miss seeing space lanes and civillian freighter traffic for me to look at and toy around with. While pirates are the games 'space monsters' I really do miss dangerous critters and hulks as well. Perhaps I missed them but there as far as I could see there are no nano swarms, space eels and automated ancient battlestations around to run into and liven the place up. No wierd anomalies either. While I'm at it, the universe is old and lived in and full of stuff but no minor alien races are to be found. Even if these would only give some bonus or penalty they would be nice for fluff.

Space stations, listening posts, space docks and other structures in space or even orbit also seem to be missing. Interacting through diplomacy with the other races is also very restricted. I loved games that have some kind of galactic council which you could play in to mess stuff up but Endless Space has the usual 'trade, make peace, declare war' options. Do like the cold war status you can have though. Very good and fresh mechanic that one and I hope to see it more often. In your own empire meanwhile the interactions also are limited. It seems rebellions, civil wars and factions or even parts of the empire splitting off are not in. Shame.

I also dislike that while the different races/factions all have their own character there cannot be a change in leadership and thus in attitude. Think MoOII was the only game in which the leaders had their own character like expansionist, researcher or warlike and that they could be replaced with others with different attitudes. Miss that. The research tree meanwhile is done quite nice as I said before but I would like to see a little randomness in it. Right now it's always the same for every faction. Even adding a small chance of other stuff being discovered would make things more interesting. Battles could also use a bit more work. A battle report alone would make a big difference in showing what is actually going on. It looks nice and all but choosing which tactic when and finding out why all your missiles miss or projectiles bounce off would be nice.

The game has potential and they do seem to add a lot through patching. Right now however it stays stuck in promising but not there. It needs way more patching and quite some extra content to become a contender. Perhaps a few expansions later I'll give it another try but right now it felt kinda pointless. Do hope they'll make a few or start on a more ambitious sequel one day because this game is promising and the genre could use a little more attention. As it is however, I'll pass and go back to the ancient yet still superior MoOII.

 

[ManjuShri]

http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-endless-space/17-6364/

 

[Riel]

I agree with the general opinion that this game shows promisse but isn't quite there.

AI: Is very poor in all areas ... makes blatant mistakes in economy like building totally useless improvements or using the same planetary exploitation in all the planets of systems. Except in harder difficulties it has lots of trouble adapting to your ships (research impaired I think) and even then it does so too late when you have already conquered half of it.

Research: While the tech tree is nice, industrial and economics techs are absolutely overpowered, +2 to all fids ... come on, +3 food/dust per pop on a planet with moon ... seriously what good is food for (or terraforming) when in the end you can make close to 10 food per pop in a barren planet with a moon and that without an agriculture explotation? ... of course the AI doesn't seam to know that.

Diplomacy: Bare bones.

Battles: Way too easy, in the early game a single tech gives you all you need for at least the first 50 turns, missiles and kinetic defence. Later as mentioned beams for the win with the the ocasional addition of the adequate offensive weapon foe each AI, they all tend to totally forget about at least one defence type.

Hero: Uberpowered. Too easy to get them to level 20, if it's a planetary leader will easily double the system's output, if it's an admiral will double the fleets performance making it unstopable except against another hero, of course the AI hasn't the slightest clue of how to use its own heros... Btw pirates are a blessing for leveling heros, make a missile-defelctor ships fleet and go hunting them with your level 1 administrator/corporate "admiral" you will make him level 10 in a few turns as the pirate fleets suicide against you.

All in all the first few games make you feel like: this is great!! but once you get the hang of the battle system and the tech tree the game becomes too easy and unchallenging.

Hate:
The lack of a consistent phase sequence, AI moving unexepectedly.
The lack of a way to tell ships the path to chose, makes out of lane travel almost useless since it rarely kicks in untl very late in the game.
Nano repairs compared to strategical healing is for laughs, you can heal a hugely damaged fleet in a single battle while it can take 10 turns if it stays out of battle, lol.
Terribly unbalanced.

Hopefully it will be patched into a very good game and it seams they are still willing to patch it thoroughly.

 

[DwarvenFood]

Anywhere to pick it up for less than 30 euro ? Seems a bit over-priced, sounds like it's worth 20 eur max.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

After giving Endless Space a few playthroughs I must say that my conclusion is that while it's a promising game it really needs more patches and content to even come close to the big names in the genre.

Let's start with the good tho. The UI is really nice. Which is a big positive in this genre. Sound is more than adequate and the music is more than good. Graphics are very crisp and well done as well. Not to mention atmospheric. The system view and the battles are really something and they very well get across that the universe is old and lived in. I read that they took inspiration from Brin's Uplift novels and it shows. I like it. Research trees are large and have species specific parts, which lends some uniqueness to them. Building up your empire is done in the time old honored tradition and works nicely. Game really has that 'one more turn' thing going for it as well.

While all the bare bones are there for a great 4x game however it falls flat for me due to the lack of content. Invasions for instance are just a button and a timer. Nothing else to it. No defenses, no strategy, nothing. Just a timer. Planetary bombardments are also not in the game. Which I find a shame since it lends more options to an attack and gives you a chance to raid and weaken your foes. I loved the games in which you can do all sorts of nasty by deciding to drop down asteroids, bioweapons or even mass drivers to hurt the enemy. Endless Space does use pirates as a kind of 'space monster' but apart from blockading a system and provide fodder they don't do much else. No raiding of space lanes, no hit on commerce, no pirate bases to destroy and no option to hire them and send to the neighbours.

pretty much why i stopped playing, as i mentioned before the game lacks flavour and personality, scant few random events, anomalies, planetary boon/bane makes for an aspergians take on 4X grand strategy.

Not being able to drop face melting poison on a planets inhabitants is just unacceptable.

 

[Mortmal]

A big let down, i preordered when it was labelled as "alpha" supposedly you could have your word to say into design decisiosn. It was all bullshit, and false advertisement, the game from so called alpha is the same as release. Lack of flavor , lack of unit type, a simplistic scissor rock paper combat sytem, no spying, well it doesnt even have all the features of other space 4X, no spying even . Yeah theres pretty ship to ship combat sequances, those are adding nothing to gampelay and slowing things down. Id say 10 euros max, and likely you will get it for much less in a steam sale, cause thats really not worth more.

 

[Raghar]

Can someone explain what is Skydrow doing? It installed under name BB racing. Update was named update for Blades of time... Is it a weird humor, or is this so bad Skydrow needs to get out some weirdness to compensate. Next update might be named Sims 3.

 

[Berekän]

^ Reported for piracy!

 

[General Maxson]

So, all these 4x space games seem disappointing (well except Star Lords perhaps), so I found a possible nice game (even though it is real time, but it can be paused whenever you want so you can plan and use tactics all you want).

I've found a nice preview of it, seems great so far, but if any of you played it, care to share some impressions?

Here's the preview: http://www.spacesector.com/blog/2012/08/stardrive-hands-on-beta-preview/

It was on kickstarter, but I missed it.

And there's some really nice artwork and footage on the official site: http://stardrivegame.com/

 

[KoolNoodles]

Worth watching for I suppose, though admittedly the term "action strategy" makes me want throw up a little.

 

[Dim]

everything

I completely agree. Get the pump picture resource and build 1st cruisers with nothing but first tech missiles and 3rd? armor for half price. I like the art and graphics but i can't micro more than 3 fleets and 5 planets before it gets really tedious.

A my review: http://www.listal.com/viewentry/2969081

 

[Misconnected]

I disagree the GUI is great. It largely avoids showing any information on actual game mechanics, and occasionally fails to show even a hint of relevant information (two quick examples: it is more than a little bit obscure that Population Growth is a function of Food production, and that you can order a Fleet to travel along a player-defined path, rather than the fastest path, by holding down Ctrl). Moreover it is clunky as fuck in a couple of ways that really matter; there's no way to avoid lengthy Final Fantasy Summon-style combat silliness, even if you just want to do something as simple as telling a Scout not to engage the enemy. Having to switch view from system to planet level to build exploits, survey moons and terraform gets almost as old as the combat fuckery, and the inability to sort system structures by type and *gasp* name vastly over-complicates what should and could have been fairly simple micro. Icon-based graphics and minimalist interface design only works up to a point, and Endless Space gleefully flings itself way past that point far too much of the time. Fleet icons, the tech tree and much more. There's no question the interface works really, really well some of the time. But man, it's also really fucking obnoxious a lot of the time, and creates a ton of make-work.

@ DIM I strongly disagree with your "[...] most of the time it's just pick the cheapest and mildly useful tech." Statement. Unlike other 4X games, in Endless Space you're always bee-lining, and what you're bee-lining for only rarely changes - and then only slightly - between matches. Essentially, the whole game part of the game is figuring out the optimal path through the tech tree. That what makes it a relatively good "my first 4X" in my opinion - there's not a lot of stuff to figure out, and what there is, is pretty much the one thing you got to learn how to get a handle on to not suck at other 4X games.

Other than that, though, I agree with most of the opinions voiced here.

 

[Dim]

Wiki, manual. Yes so much to FF and build switch. Not for the rest. That right click out was nice.

What techs do you focus on?

 

[Misconnected]

Wiki & manual =/= good interface. I'm not suggesting every game's interface could/should try to provide all relevant information contextually, but ES could, and half the time it does. I'm unsure what "Not for the rest" refers to, but I very much agree with you on the right-click thing. Like I said, when the interface really works, it works really-really well. The problem is it works really-really poorly in a few cases, and those cases tend to come up multiple times almost every turn.

...

Exploit: Food 1, Exploit: Dust 1, System: Industry 1, Weapon: Missile 1, System: Science 1, Travel: Wormholes, System: Happiness 1.
Tax for 20 Dust on Turn 2, buy Hero, Tax for Fervent Approval.
Hero, Labour: Industry 1, Industry 2, Approval 1, Approval 2.
New Outpost every 6th Turn. Relocate Labour Hero to new Outpost every 6th Turn.
Food Exploit on all Planets until Pop Cap.
Hero-boost the building of Exploit: Food, System: Industry 1 (the I +10 thingy), and System: Science 1 (the S +40 thingy).
Interrupt queues in time to finish building a Colony ships whenever Pop Cap is 1 Turn away. Rush buy if necessary.
Interrupt queues to ensure you can build 1 Outpost every 6 Turns. Rush buy if necessary.
When queue is empty, produce 2½ ships per System of smallest class with the most and cheapest missile tech available.
When queue is still empty, convert Industry to Dust.
...

I wish I could write you a winning click-by-click walkthrough for the first 200 turns of any possible match on Endless, with less than 10 decision points/variables. But I'm finding it impossible when I'm not getting paid. Still, the above should give you enough of a head start that you'd have to try hard to fuck things up.

ES just doesn't have a whole lot of strategy. There's basically just 1 right way to go about things. Sure, your species, the map layout, rival proximity, resource availability and whatnot, might change your priorities. But never, ever to the extent that you could say with a straight face that it changed your strategy. You might say ES is kind of deficient in the decision-making department, and on the most fundamental level plays more like a member of the Tower Defence family than like a member of the 4x family.

 

[Dim]

Mods, game settings, civ builds, self imposed rules, multiplayer can all fix the lack of depth and actual decisions. Unfortunately grind/pointless micromanagement preclude almost all my enjoyment. And for some fff bizarre reason noone will ever mod in cutscene skip or a decent ai so i can skip the micro or increase the cost of ships for fewer ships. No, that will never happen. I am one of a kind. People love grind.

Edit: no those things will make the most of depth like a multiplier but that can go a very long way.

 

[Destroid]

You might say ES is kind of deficient in the decision-making department, and on the most fundamental level plays more like a member of the Tower Defence family than like a member of the 4x family.

This is horrifying to contemplate, with ES being a generally well received recent entry to the 4x club.

 

[Misconnected]

This is horrifying to contemplate, with ES being a generally well received recent entry to the 4x club.

Neah... For the purposes of discussing this, we can divide 4X gamers into 2 rough groups; those who primarily enjoy the process of learning how to play a 4X, and those who primarily enjoy trying out elaborate strategies once they've learned how to play the 4X. Neither group is immune to a game that makes an unusually good first impression. The former mostly don't play 4X games past the first impression stage, and the latter is unlikely to start back-pedalling on what they've said based on their first impression.

So when a 4X makes an unusually good first impression, both groups are likely to be very positive about it. The only way you can really tell if there's more to it than a great first impression, is if the latter group keeps playing it after the former has moved on to the next thing (which doesn't seem to be the case, as far as I can tell). And ES makes an outstanding first impression. Enough so that I too have said very positive things about it online, despite the fact that process of learning how to play a 4X is, to me, almost always a chore.

To me, the fun of 4X games is devising detailed, match-long strats, preferably of the kind that can more accurately be called "mad schemes", and see if I can make them work. That kind of highly pro-active play requires a pretty solid grip on the game mechanics and playing pieces (and preferably, a not-stupid AI). ES has no potential for that kind of play. At all. But it was actually fun learning how to play the game, and if that's the primary source of entertainment for you then ES really is pretty damn great. I honestly can't think of anything better. If you're a pro-active strategy nerd like me, though, ES is ultimately a deeply disappointing experience and not worth your money at any price.

Point being: it's not really surprising a lot of people have said a lot of nice things about ES, and that the deservedly brutal criticisms are few and far between. In a perfect world, reviewers would become good at playing the games they review before actually reviewing them, and thus know what the hell they were talking about. But in this world that kind of behaviour has been taboo for as long as game reviewers have existed. And I can't really see how the rest of us have an obligation to ensure shit we say about games is always grounded in a thorough understanding of those games.

 

[Dim]

To me, the fun of 4X games is devising detailed, match-long strats, preferably of the kind that can more accurately be called "mad schemes", and see if I can make them work. That kind of highly pro-active play requires a pretty solid grip on the game mechanics and playing pieces (and preferably, a not-stupid AI).

What are the best games for this in your opinion?

 

[Misconnected]

Civ4 and GalCiv2 (without ToTA). Both have lots and lots of room for creative strategies, and both have AIs that are quite good and at least a little bit reactive. Dominions 3 is probably my distant third pick, but it is extremely poorly balanced and really doesn't have much of an AI. If it was as balanced as Civ4 or GalCiv2 and had as good AI, it would easily be my top pick, though.

 

[Dim]

Um ok so Dom has superthugs, special summons, communion, dominion based conquest, sea and land domination etc etc . But what about civ4 and Calciv2 (and why not twilight?) ? I mean give a few examples.

 

[Zewp]

Endless Space is a decent game. Not amazing, but not super bad either. What it really needs is modding tools, though. If the game had modding tools it could already have been ranking up there with all the classics like MOO2.

 

[Behelit]

Just got an update. Has a new supah race!

The pre 1.0.25 game saves are not compatible with the new version, as we have added lots of modifications, especially in the Alliance System.

RISE OF THE AUTOMATONS (1.0.25) October 2nd, 2012

CHANGES AND ADDITIONS

• Separated the visual affinity from the gameplay affinity. [G2G vote]
  For instance, you can now customize your own faction with the gameplay of the Cravers and the art of the Amoeba.
• Added the "System Population Balancing" in the Galaxy's advanced options. Ranges from "Random" to "Perfect". For "Perfect", constellations with homeworlds now possess the same number of systems (with a maximum difference of 1 system).
• Added a panel for the Empire wide factors in the Empire view.
• Added a disclaimer when entering the Mods section for the first time.
• Changed the faction colors to differentiate the shades of green.
• Added Polish language.
• Added the possibility to load custom 3D models and textures for planet and ship modding.
• Changed the compatibility system of the save files.
• Added the soundtrack directory for Mac users in ~/Library/Application Support/Steam/SteamApps/common/Endless Space/

AUTOMATONS [G2G vote]

• Added the Automatons faction with a specific gameplay affinity and properties for specific buildings, according to Panzer, the winner of the faction contest.
  Automatons Affinity:
  1. At the end of the turn, if there is an overproduction, it's stacked instead of being reported.
  2. At the beginning of a turn, an interest is applied to the stacked industry, allowing it to increase a bit.
  3. The stacked industry is capped at 5 * system's industry.
  4. If the overproduction cannot be stacked, it's conserved for the next turn like the current mechanism.
  5. When the automatons build improvements & ships, the industry is used in the following order:
  
  a. system's industry
  b. overproduction
  c. stacked industry​
  6. When a system from the Automatons is invaded, the stacked industry is destroyed, reset to 0 even if the invader is an Automaton.
• Added Automatons unique tech icons.
• Added a gauge bar for the stacked industry of each system in the Empire view.
• Added the stacked industry value on tooltip of each system in the Galaxy view.
• Placed the Automatons' overproduction stack in the Development bar (in System view).
• Added the Automatons' portrait, diplomacy hologram and loading screen. Automatons will use Cravers' ships 3D models.

TRADE ROUTES [G2G vote]

• Added a trade routes summary panel in the Empire view.
• Added the possibility to directly click on a trade route's origin system in the trade routes panel, to enter this system's view.
• Added a trade routes panel link on the System view.
• Added several tooltips for the trade routes panel.

AI

• Added several AIPrerequisites from the community mod (by Ail, Grubsnik and Davea), globally improving AI when building star system improvements.
• Improved the tax rate management for the AI.
• Improved the formula that computes the response given by an AI to an alliance request.
• Changed the formula for trading a technology with the AI. Before, the price was related to the most wanted technology, now, it is related to the most expensive technology available.

HEROES & ACADEMY

• Added arrows to switch from a hero to another in the Inspection view.
• Added arrows to switch from a hero to another in the Academy.
• When recruiting a hero, he is now automatically selected in the active tab.
• Added an "Accept" button when assigning new abilities to a hero and the possibility to click on a selected ability to remove it before validating the final choice.
• Added empty slots to show how many heroes can still be recruited in the Academy.
• Added a tooltip to heroes' attributes to show what effect they have.
• Added a visual hero identifier in the Academy, to determine if a hero is in a system, a fleet or unassigned.

ALLIANCE & DIPLOMACY [G2G vote]

• Updated the alliance management system.
  When offering a treaty with someone outside of an alliance, a request is sent to allies. They can now either:
  1. Accept the treaty
  2. Decide to leave the alliance.
• Added a tendency panel for diplomatic negotiations. Shows how an ally AI will likely respond to a treaty you offer to someone outside the alliance. Human players will always respond "Undecided".

BALANCING

• Changed the upkeep formula (cost 1 per CP --> cost 0.4*CP max per CP).
• Reduced the deflectors' evolution in stats, they were too efficient in late game: (3,5,8,11,14,20,25,30,36,45 => 2,4,7,10,13,17,22,27,33,39)
• Increased the hulls' HP to increase the probability to reach the melee phase: (small:300, medium:600,large:1200 => small:450, medium:1200, large:3000)
• Increased the cost of tonnage and repair modules' industry cost as well as modules related to strategic resources (to reward abundance).
• Reduced the Hissho's Bushido (20% on FIDS => 15% on FID).
• Increased the length of the Bushido but without the reset after an invasion (15 turns WITH reset => 45 turns WITHOUT reset after an invasion).
• Changed the Revenge trait's condition of activation (activated whenever a lost system was re-invaded by the player => will only activate during invasion if the lost system was previously owned at 100%).
• Changed the length of the different Cooperation Agreement steps (0/15/30 => 0/10/15).
• Reduced the AI bonus on weapons, defense and buyout to balance the difficulty. AI has been heavily improved and therefore needs less powerful bonuses.
• Balanced armor and repair module regarding the new HP's of the ships:

Armor flat value:
Armor 1: 25 => 50
Armor 2: 32 => 64
Armor 3 & Armor3 Terran: 42 => 84
Armor 4: 64 => 128
Armor 5: 54 => 108
Armor 6: 125 => 250
Armor 7: 110 => 220
Armor 8: 240 => 480
Armor 9: 220 => 440​

Armor industry cost:
Armor 1: 3 => 6
Armor 2: 12 => 50
Armor 3 & Armor 3 Terran:10 => 20
Armor 4: 15 => 30
Armor 5: 21 => 42
Armor 6: 28 => 56
Armor 7: 36 => 72
Armor 8: 46 => 92
Armor 9: 116 => 450​

Repair flat value:
Repair 1: 5 => 10
Repair 1: 20 => 40

Repair 3: 60 => 120
Repair 3: 20 => 40​

FIXES
IMPORTANT FIXES

• Fixed an issue where trying to display the “end of auto explore” alert message after destroying the corresponding fleet provoked a NullReferenceException.
• Fixed an issue where displaying the trade routes panel without trade routes provoked a NullReferenceException.
• Fixed an issue where global random events were not synchronized for all players.
• Fixed an issue where the AI was using obsolete ship template designs.
• Fixed an issue where the AI didn't use tonnage modules, resulting in partially empty ships.
• Fixed an issue where the number of turns, before a peace treaty was made available, was not saved. The peace treaty was then automatically available after loading a game.
• Fixed an issue where the interception module still intercepted attacks even when the defense module had 0 in interception.
• Fixed an issue where the game would hang when loading a game without available ship designs.

OTHER FIXES

• Fixed an issue where Pilgrims' fleet errant wasn't concerned by faction traits that improve ships HP.
• Fixed an issue where the scroll bar would overlap with the resources in the diplomatic negotiations screen.
• Fixed application of approval bonus on improvement using percent.
• Fixed an issue where loading a saved game could remove contracts for many empires.
• Fixed an issue where creating an alliance did not spread the cease fire status across the allied factions.
• Fixed an issue where the beginning of a cease fire wasn't synchronized for all allies.
• Fixed an issue where infinite improvements in the queue could prevent using over production stacking.
• Fixed an issue where after invading a system with infinite improvement buildings, the modifier stayed active until the end of the game.
• Fixed an issue where diplomatic status resolution wasn't correctly done in an alliance vs alliance situation.
• Fixed an issue where the worst diplomatic status wasn't correctly spread when one of the 2 allies didn't know the third empire.
• Fixed an issue where the AI lost use of some of its fleets, leaving them unattended in a system.
• Fixed an issue with the AI parameters (for instance, the result of 3/2 was counted as 1,500 instead of 1.5).
• Fixed an issue related to the Sower's personnality.
• Fixed an issue which caused the AI building nothing in a system.
• Fixed an issue which forbade the AI to build food improvement when its food surplus was negative.
• Fixed several GUI issues.
• Fixed several localization issues.
• Fixed several text issues.

 

[tindrli]

seems like decent update

 

[DakaSha]

so is this game worth getting yet?
let me guess... no

 

[Malakal]

so is this game worth getting yet?
let me guess... no

I got my fun out of it but waiting for the inevitable expansion cant hurt.

 

[KoolNoodles]

so is this game worth getting yet?
let me guess... no

No. It's pretty and shallow. Pulls you in for a day or two because the game looks nice and the tech tree/planet management looks promising, then you realize the combat is boring and lifeless after the first dozen battles, there's not much choice in techs, AI sucks, diplomacy is awful, and game play starts to feel very linear. Some compare it to tower defense with 4x sugar coating, kinda agree. It needs about four expansions.