Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup questions/thread

[cutterjohn]

http://forum.t-o-m-e.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21508

read it and weep folks. No more quests for teh ringz, no more chosen one, more of a full generic roguelike engine mostly driven by lua scripting. (Actually in the past it was already quite well driven by lua scripts, but now...)

Dungeon Crawl is ancient, and stone soup isn't doing anything to make it better.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Damn, now I'm going to be up all night playing this for the next week. Been waiting for a new version of ToME FOREVER.

 

[Castanova]

cutter, it's kinda funny how a couple pages ago you were talking about it being nice to have graphics in a roguelike and then you're posting a link to a roguelike with some of the ugliest graphics I've seen.

That being said, mind enlightening us DCSS-tards on the virtues of this new game versus whatever else is out there already? The only thing that link tells me is that the game's back-end has been re-written which is meaningless to players if the game itself isn't much different.

 

[Zomg]

http://forum.t-o-m-e.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21508

read it and weep folks. No more quests for teh ringz, no more chosen one, more of a full generic roguelike engine mostly driven by lua scripting. (Actually in the past it was already quite well driven by lua scripts, but now...)

Alright alright I'll fucking download it you naggy motherfucker.

Edit - Good grief. I'm trying to imagine the depth of inanity that would make a person unable to see the philosophical differences between this and Crawl that make them completely fucking unrelated, much less that ToME is supposed to supercede Crawl.

This is some ungodly complicated sandbox obvious Angband descendant with fucking town shops and quests and skill trees, simulation and, I shit you not, lore and roleplaying. Crawl is supposed to be a balanced, sustained dive with no bullshit distractions, grinding, or unnecessary detail and they accomplish that goal in part. The games are polar opposites for Christ's sake.

 

[betamin]

He's just a dumbass, Dungeon Crawl ancient? A bunch of unpaid nerds got the design objetives for a crawler better than anyone in the gaming industry and they are building on top of that pretty damn well, if more games were made with these kind of guidelines we would see better shit on the market for sure

 

[crufty]

nethack is great
dc has enough modern features in it i'll go so far as to call it better.

i never liked tome. the problem with tome, like adom, as impressive as they were, was i had to live in the world. nethack/dc I can just visit: the tropes are standard. i'm in, either as some strange (random) class (Dc) or visiting with my little doggy (nh).

when I started a level in abyss, I knew dc had taken it a cut above. the level tweaks are really something special. I'm sure after a decade of play i'll probably go *yawn* like nethack, but even nethack is still worth the occasional playthru.

no reason for rougelike players to hate on other roguelikes, plenty of room for all! christ i still like ivan for godsake, and that is a strange ass game.

if tome is going to have graphics they need to take it up a notch.

 

[cutterjohn]

http://forum.t-o-m-e.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21508

read it and weep folks. No more quests for teh ringz, no more chosen one, more of a full generic roguelike engine mostly driven by lua scripting. (Actually in the past it was already quite well driven by lua scripts, but now...)

Alright alright I'll fucking download it you naggy motherfucker.

Edit - Good grief. I'm trying to imagine the depth of inanity that would make a person unable to see the philosophical differences between this and Crawl that make them completely fucking unrelated, much less that ToME is supposed to supercede Crawl.

This is some ungodly complicated sandbox obvious Angband descendant with fucking town shops and quests and skill trees, simulation and, I shit you not, lore and roleplaying. Crawl is supposed to be a balanced, sustained dive with no bullshit distractions, grinding, or unnecessary detail and they accomplish that goal in part. The games are polar opposites for Christ's sake.

Roguelikes are actually full blown religions hiding behind their game trappings, sort of the same way that emacs and vi are...

@castanova
Yes, I know redding is teh hard, but it's all there for you to read. Sorry if it takes you a few weeks to get through the summarized version.

@betamin
Dungeon Crawl is, realistically, not much more advanced than moria. Hell Omega has more features ffs.

 

[crufty]

have to be honest, i like the hell out of dcss monster tiles reduces snake vs skelly confusion etc.

here is a tome4 gameplay video
http://blog.te4.org/2010/06/tome/new-cl ... the-light/

pretty nifty i have to admit.

 

[cutterjohn]

Actually I like outdoor areas in roguelikes, which was one of the first things that drew me to ADOM, as well as a few other Angband variants although most of the variants weren't very good.

I haven't had a chance to look at the new scripting engine yet, but even with the 2.x version you could change quite a bit of the rules, including classes, skills, and avancement by modifying their respective lua scripts.

[EDIT]
...and IMO lua's about the easiest scripting system to learn...
[/EDIT]

 

[Dragula]

Wtf is a Crazy Yiuf?

 

[Zomg]

A unique gnoll, one of the earlier uniques. He always generates with a quarterstaff of chaos (which randomly does one of a number of different effects on hit). I don't melee him 'cause the quarterstaff sometimes has ungodly hit/damage bonuses and it can effectively insta-kill you if it does a paralyze or something.

 

[Dragula]

Yeah, it insta-killed me. I wasn't even prepared for that kind of shit that early.

 

[Zomg]

Well, he's easy to avoid until you have a way to kill him safely since he only appears in his little grotto mini-vault.

 

[Malakal]

Yes, easy to avoid, but I like to kill him for his cloak, as it is guaranteed too. If You have a good wand or ranged attack go for it.

 

[MisterStone]

WTF is up ith blastocytes? I destroy a spore, then a bunch of mushrooms are created. So I just go in there and smash all the mushrooms up (they make more spores eventually I think) and VOILLA! 500 experience points. Seems a bit excessive.

 

[Zomg]

The active mushrooms can spawn more spores, which make more mushrooms, which make more spores, etc. A level, particularly an open level, can get uncontrollably infested and horribly dangerous if you let the process continue for a while without fixing it. I wish I had a screenshot of the worst one I've ever seen :shock:

 

[Castanova]

@castanova
Yes, I know redding is teh hard, but it's all there for you to read. Sorry if it takes you a few weeks to get through the summarized version.

I read the summarized version, you condescending twat, and it speaks of no revolutionary features whatosever besides this Lua scripting nonsense which, as I said, is useless except for modders. Am I supposed to be impressed that you no longer have to quest for the ring?

 

[Damned Registrations]

ToME4 is actually a bit disappointing to me right now. It's got potential if he keeps developing it (ToME2 was pretty great) and it seems to have a great engine so hopefully that'll go quickly. But right now it's missing a lot and is painfully unbalanced towards shit instagibbing you without warning or any means of defense.

The skills system looks very interesting, as there are numerous active abilities, some functioning like stances, other one shot special moves, that consume stamina and have cooldowns, making the game interesting for non casters. The resistances are % based instead of the annoying 1-3 rank based crap most RLs have been using since forever.

The interface is pretty nice, fugly tiles notwithstanding, having pop up damage numbersstatus effects on screen so you don't have to split your attention between the map and the 30 lines of scrolling text to be aware of things.

 

[Dragula]

A fucking iguana just killed my level 5 orc, wtf is up with that?

 

[cutterjohn]

ToME4 is actually a bit disappointing to me right now. It's got potential if he keeps developing it (ToME2 was pretty great) and it seems to have a great engine so hopefully that'll go quickly. But right now it's missing a lot and is painfully unbalanced towards shit instagibbing you without warning or any means of defense.

The skills system looks very interesting, as there are numerous active abilities, some functioning like stances, other one shot special moves, that consume stamina and have cooldowns, making the game interesting for non casters. The resistances are % based instead of the annoying 1-3 rank based crap most RLs have been using since forever.

The interface is pretty nice, fugly tiles notwithstanding, having pop up damage numbersstatus effects on screen so you don't have to split your attention between the map and the 30 lines of scrolling text to be aware of things.

Unfortunately my sentiments as well... WTF went on between his dropping t3 and then shitting out t4... I'm speaking of the game that he "shipped" t4 with, and NOT the base scripting engine which is pretty good...

OTOH WTF, gayass music, flakey graphics... grrr.... just annoying as hell...

BTW Crawl is still teh ghey, but not nearlry as ghey as Nethack...

[EDIT]
I'm losing my religion, or maybe reverting to Adomese....
[/EDIT]

[EDIT2]
As to the quoted post te4 is WAY WAY WAY beyond DISAPPOINTING,,, it's an annoying piece of near ARPG shit... I just don't get it... (reasoning behind the ghey focus...)
[/EDIT]

[EDIT3]
All things considered Crawl still a crappy POS...
[/EDIT3]

 

[Zomg]

Man I always end up regretting it when I go with any of the gods besides the spellbook or gift factories. I've got a draconian earth elementalist going with Nemelex and, while Nem is powerful as hell it's kinda emergency-biased power. I'm dicking around around D27 and his basic offense is still earth elementals/weak unarmed/wands/sandblast because I just can't get any good spellbooks, even with one genie card and one scroll book aquirement. I'm going to end up casting summon horrible things (it's in a book shop) off of the XP from spamming elementals instead of doing something vaguely related to the starting class. You just have to drop the greed for super ninja Nemelex tricks and go with boring ol' Sif Muna if you don't want to jackknife on shitty spellbook problems.

 

[Castanova]

But then, of course, there's Okawaru who can be depended upon solely to present you with a host of useless items along with two mildly useful powers. My current Enchanter has cleared most of the Lair and I'm still working with a +0+2 freeze dagger and equipment I found on the dungeon floor.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Is it just a case of really bad luck when you can't hit a creature that you have been knocking off like nothing before? It seems unusually common for me to run into Kobolds who will shrug off about 5 spells and then wear me down in a melee. Granted, they are usually doing this to a level 1 or 2 character, but this happens in some capacity with other creatures throughout the game, and even a lvl 1 or 2 character will normally wipe out a kobold in one shot.

 

[Damned Registrations]

If it's enchantments you're whiffing on them, that's fairly normal. Even stuff with no real resistance can shrug stuff off once in a while, and your power won't be that great at low levels. Be sure to look at unfamiliar enemies and check their resistance to enchantments too.

If your conjurations are missing or doing piddly damage, that's a lot stranger. Though at low levels I think you get fewer damage dice, so the damage isn't as normalized. Spell accuracy is based on the individual conjuration and your spell power.

With spell casters I actually run them to dungeon level 3 or 4 ASAP and try to get some kills on stuff that gives more xp than kobolds. You've got better odds of winning a fight with 1 ogre than the 60 different kobolds you'd need for the same chunk of xp. Especially if you find any of the offensive wands (And most of them are offensive)

 

[Zomg]

Humanoids might pick up and equip armor/shields, or they might have a weapon with the protection brand. AC generally reduces spell damage. Monster HP is also variable and sometimes you might run into one that's much higher than average. Or it could just be an unlucky streak.