Dune: Spice Wars - 4X/RTS from Wartales developers

[Harthwain]

Aren't the Fedaykin a creation of Paul/Maud'dib?

Yes. They are taking "creative liberties" with the Fremen. Probably want to cash in on the popularity(?) of the recent movie?

 

[Angelo85]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1605220/eventcomments/3271310323762417514

Seems it's going to be wholly based on the recent movie instead of the books... unwishlited.

Spoiler

Yeah that community manager's responses are hilarious. I looked at his post history and some responses from yesterday were edited today. So perhaps his boss had a little talk with him to stay on message. Then again this appears to be the message:

/e: just noticed he even contradicts his own statement. First it's all like "gender shouldn't matter, I don't see color" next time it was a deliberate choice because empowerment.

 

[lightbane]

Every fucking time. Oh well, that saves time and money as I won't pay attention to this anymore.
Unless mods fix that, which is to be seen. Gameplay is also at risk, if PC bullshit is seen as a priority.

 

[Storyfag]

Gameplay is also at risk, if PC bullshit is seen as a priority.

I think gameplay might work out, but won't ever properly reflect the themes of the novels.

 

[Nutria]

I don't expect an RTS to stick too close to the novels. Dune 2 was basically "let's make Operation Desert Storm except futuristic" and that turned out great.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

reminder that if you are white or a male and pay money for this, you are literally a cuckold. This is the developer flat out saying that replacing you is a form of modernizing.

 

[A horse of course]

"artifact of when it was written" fuck off

 

[vota DC]

Since Fremen are a faction rather than a subfaction Paul can fight them just to say "Rule of thumb, you can't kill the Messiah!"

 

[anvi]

The original Dune game was cool.

 

[Harthwain]

I don't expect an RTS to stick too close to the novels. Dune 2 was basically "let's make Operation Desert Storm except futuristic" and that turned out great.

You could make an RTS that doesn't stick too close to the novels, while still making it feel like Dune. Emperor: Battle for Dune is exactly what you're talking about: it has Harkonnen and Atreides factions that feel like they are from the books, but all of their characters are original (well, aside from Lady Elara and Emperor Corrino). But if you straight up take characters from the novels (LITERALLY) then it is not unreasonable to expect you to stick to the source material as close as possible. The talk about "modernizing the messenger only makes the message more powerful" is pure bullshit. Don't try to fix what isn't broken and think like you can do better than the author of the original books.

There is a reason why the leader of Fremen of a man - he leads the tribe. At the same time the top spiritual/advisor figure is a woman (essentially a Fremen version Reverend Mother). It is acknowledged in the books that the tribe's survival is only possible by having a Reverend Mother who guides the journey (probably because of their massive experience. Although the Reverend Mother Superior was said to have some form of limited insight into the future by having some sort of "superior abilities", although I doubt it was as powerful as what Muad'Dib had when he became Kwistaz Haderach). By the way, the order of women in the books consists purely of superior females who are restraining themselves to make themselves look less like a major threat they know they are.

So, in my opinion having a female Fremen leader is undermining Frank Herbert's work, not "making the message more powerful". But in order to know that you'd have to read the book and actually understand it, without trying to insert your modern politcks into it. In fact, considering how many departures there were in the movie (10 minutes in!) I don't have much hope in the game if that's the course they decided to take (as I suspect). I will still watch and see how the gameplay turns out, but I am very disappointed and my day is ruined regardless.

 

[Nutria]

having a female Fremen leader

Ohhhhh now I get it. I must have skipped over a lot of this thread and missed what you were really talking about.

 

[Infinitron]

Gender flips are lame, but I think it's reasonable from a commercial perspective for the devs to copy what the movie did. People are going to compare this game to the movie, it's inescapable.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Gender flips are lame, but I think it's reasonable from a commercial perspective for the devs to copy what the movie did. People are going to compare this game to the movie, it's inescapable.

I don't get it

 

[Harthwain]

Gender flips are lame, but I think it's reasonable from a commercial perspective for the devs to copy what the movie did. People are going to compare this game to the movie, it's inescapable.

Sure, but then just say so, instead of trying to conjure an argument that doesn't even make sense in an attempt to justify your departure from the book.

 

[lightbane]

By the way, the order of women in the books consists purely of superior females who are restraining themselves to make themselves look less like a major threat they know they are.

The OG novel had very powerful women yep, but that's not enough nowadays. It's never enough.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

Transforming a white man into a negro woman is to modernize him.

We went from the legend Max von Sydow to this:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1605220/allnews/

 

[Trithne]

Dropped. Flanderisation of the character of Liet from a man with a vision and determination into a hippy. Probably extends to the Fremen as a whole.

"Modernising the messenger makes the message more powerful". Leaving Liet as a man spouting this ecofacsist tripe would be more powerful since its not what you'd expect. And what's this "building a sustainable planet with local communities"?

The Fremen, and Liet, wanted to create a paradise on Arrakis for religious reasons, and because fuck deserts. Not because they believed in neoliberal community movements and climate change. Their entire goal is climate change on a planetary scale.

 

[zapotec]

jihad, messiah, feudal kingdoms in space, ritual combats, concubines a very modern book indeed

 

[Storyfag]

jihad, messiah, feudal kingdoms in space, ritual combats, concubines a very modern book indeed

"jihad" has since been modernised to "crusade", and you know the Atreides propaganda corps - they have always been in it for the little man, just like Uncle Soros.

 

[ELEXmakesMeHard]

Well? Is it shit?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[thesheeep]

Well? Is it shit?

It's kind of "meh".

The atmosphere is IMO just not there and it doesn't really feel Dune-like (especially compared to the older Dune games).
Somehow, I found the music lacking especially, which is weird as I usually don't even notice game music that much.
The UI needs a lot of work and clearly the tutorial is a complete mess - though both of these can be excused, given the early access state.

All-in-all, I feel strongly reminded of Endless Space 2. Game mechanics that are really good (or at least potentially so), but the entire game seems so clean and sanitized and abstract in a way that I just can't get immersed at all.
But it also has to be said that a lot of people seem to love it already (just like lots of people loved Endless Space 2), so idk...

I really wouldn't say it's a bad game, but you be the judge if "kinda okay" is good enough for you if there are better 4X games around.

That whole Liet thing is funny, but I couldn't care less about stuff like that if the rest of the game was really good.

 

[Naraya]

entire game seems so clean and sanitized and abstract in a way that I just can't get immersed at all.

Hmm, interesting. Now that you said it I got the very same feeling after watching the new Dune movie. I liked it a lot (the movie) but I prefer my Dune depicted like in Lynch creation.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

it doesn't really feel Dune-like

neither did the movie. at least it's consistent.

 

[Maggot]

Heard harvesters instantly warp money to your account instead of having to go back to the refinery for this game, which makes sandworms a lot less of a threat.