Downloading Daggerfall to play on DOSbox.

[hakuroshi]

You must be level 10 to finish MQ, but there is no need to level up more unless you want swarms of ancient liches in every dungeon. It's a lot more variety in enemies at level 10 and daedric loot is still a rare find.

 

[Mastermind]

Arena-to-Daggerfall was a much, MUCH bigger improvement.

The only thing that improved were the graphics. With a couple of exceptions the races are indistinguishable from each other. Arena's main quest had a shitload of unique dungeon tilesets. Daggerfall's are indistinguishable from each other. The only thing Daggerfall unequivocally did better was the character art, but that hardly makes it a big improvement. The character creation is also nice if you like exploits, but that's about all. The idea that daggerfall was an improvement over arena, let alone a big one, is completely laughable.

 

[Sceptic]

Actually there is quite of level scaling in the game with of exception of few random creatures per dungeon who can be few levels stronger then you. Its worst in the late game where only enemies you encounter are elder vampires.

Nope. The level scaling doesn't work like this. The humanoid enemies with classes are all levelled, but none of the creatures. So at level 1 you'll encounter rats and elder vampires, at level 20 you'll also encounter rats and elder vampires. MQ dungeons may behave differently, but since there's a level requirement it's probably just the way they're populated rather than any level scaling. Loot is another matter, as what materials you find is completely level-scaled (though artifacts are completely fixed)

You must be level 10 to finish MQ

IIRC the level requirement is broken in vanilla for the later maine line quests, so you may not need to be this high. I think DQFIX put in the level requirements back.

The only thing that improved were the graphics. With a couple of exceptions the races are indistinguishable from each other. Arena's main quest had a shitload of unique dungeon tilesets. Daggerfall's are indistinguishable from each other. The only thing Daggerfall unequivocally did better was the character art, but that hardly makes it a big improvement. The character creation is also nice if you like exploits, but that's about all. The idea that daggerfall was an improvement over arena, let alone a big one, is completely laughable.

How typically Mastermind. The only gameplay elements that are worth considering are graphics, dungeon tilesets, character art, and you were kind enough to throw a bone to races.

1/10. Though that might be your best one yet

 

[markec]

Nope. The level scaling doesn't work like this. The humanoid enemies with classes are all levelled, but none of the creatures. So at level 1 you'll encounter rats and elder vampires, at level 20 you'll also encounter rats and elder vampires. MQ dungeons may behave differently, but since there's a level requirement it's probably just the way they're populated rather than any level scaling. Loot is another matter, as what materials you find is completely level-scaled (though artifacts are completely fixed)

I dont know about you but my game was like that. You started by fighting rats, skeletons and bandits and as you level the enemies become stronger. In my late game in every dungeon I went I only encountered elder vampires. Now I didnt play main quest but went on to do guild quests so maybe the main quest dungeons are not leveled but enemies were.

 

[Elwro]

My game was also like that. I remember that about halfway through (or perhaps a bit earlier) every second dungeon was filled with lycanthropes and later I almost never encountered them.

 

[Mastermind]

Nope. The level scaling doesn't work like this. The humanoid enemies with classes are all levelled, but none of the creatures. So at level 1 you'll encounter rats and elder vampires, at level 20 you'll also encounter rats and elder vampires. MQ dungeons may behave differently, but since there's a level requirement it's probably just the way they're populated rather than any level scaling. Loot is another matter, as what materials you find is completely level-scaled (though artifacts are completely fixed)

Your memory is defunct. I ignored the MQ entirely in most of my playthroughs and all the random dungeons i got sent to for quests would mostly spawn monsters based on my level. I don't remember any significand deviations.

How typically Mastermind.

How typically, umm, actually I guess you don't really have typical behavior because you don't stand out at all. If it weren't for your avatar I would not be able to tell the difference between you and the rest of the bricks in the shit smeared codex wall.

The only gameplay elements that are worth considering are graphics, dungeon tilesets, character art, and you were kind enough to throw a bone to races.

No, there is also dungeon design (Arena is a magnificent example of the superiority of tiles, daggerfall is a jumbled nightmarish mess) and combat (arena somehow manages to be smoother than a newer and shinier sequel) though the latter isn't different enough to be worth noting and the former is something I've been trying to suppress the memory of for quite some time. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[hakuroshi]

In my most recent game there were skeletons and rats mostly on level 1, but I encountered ancient vampires twice. At level 2 I never encountered a vampire but there was a lot of werewolves. No wereboars though.

Monsters are leveled in DF, but not firmly fixed to your level. It's much more probable to encounter a monster close to your level, but exceptions do exist. Still the highest monster in the game is level 21-25, I think and so above this level you will fight them almost exclusively. That's why I prefere levels 5-10 when you are not killed in one strike and there a lot of variety in monsters. Linguist cllass is a good build for keeping check on your level btw.

 

[villain of the story]

Nope. The level scaling doesn't work like this. The humanoid enemies with classes are all levelled, but none of the creatures.

Wrong. I suggest to find a Daggerfall bestiary somewhere and check if there are any creatures that you have missed. I've had games where I haven't encountered a single Centaur, Daedra Lord, Giant Scorpion, Nymph, Spriggan, Lamia, Harpy, Gargoyle, Daedra Seducer or some of the Atronach types because I levelled up very rapidly between dungeon romps, rather sticking to local quests.

 

[Sceptic]

I suggest to find a Daggerfall bestiary somewhere and check if there are any creatures that you have missed.

I just did. Sorry guys, but I'm not convinced.

The argument so far boils to this: you say that you've not seen some creatures appear, therefore rigid level-scaling exists that always prevents them from appearing outside their assigned levels. Aside from the obvious logical fallacy, there is one extremely simple counter-proof to this argument: have a creature from one extreme appear at the other. I've recounted (and I'm honestly tired of repeating this every time this argument comes up) my encounter with ancient liches (one of the highest-level creatures) at level 2. There has been at least one other report on this very page of similar encounter. The ancient liches example is, obviously, not the only one (I've also seen dragonlings at low levels, bats and rats at high levels, spriggans just about all the time, and so on); the reason I keep bringing it up is that you cannot do better in terms of extremes colliding. Therefore rigid level-scaling that makes all creatures appear at this but not that level does not exist. Simple as that.

Now, since I'm such a nice guy, I'm willing to make a couple of concessions. First, it's possible that SOME creatures are rigidly level-scaled so that they only appear at this but not that level. Second, and in my opinion more likely, each creature level has a fixed chance of appearing for each PC level, that chance decreasing as the two levels grow apart. If that's the case then we're all at the mercy of the RNG, and it obviously favors more randomness for some (such as hakuroshi and I) than for others. If this is indeed true, than I stand by my initial statement: "there's very little level-scaling". It's there, I won't deny it; but it's nowhere near what it was in Arena or Oblivion.

 

[Luzur]

well ive been fighting Ancient Vampires together with bats and an Ancient Lich in the same room as a bear, so...