Dominions 3 kicks ass

[DakaSha]

Well i think its fair to say that its your job to inform yourself when starting a game with a mod

there is a list of changes somewhere

(hey no hangover!)

 

[Topher]

Maybe so, but I would have liked to have an updated item list for example before designing my pretender and certainly before researching construction of greater magical items and finding out that I actually need to pump out some High Priests of the Sun for stuff I previously used Mictlan Priests for.

Micro isn't that much of an issue now that the pace is turn/day.

turn/day??? Each turn isn't a season anymore? How does that work when recruiting units?

 

[DakaSha]

uhm.. im pretty sure he means in multiplayer.. 1 turn being played a day

 

[Topher]

Makes sense... I thought that it might be a change implemented by the CBM mod. It didn't dawn on me at all that he might be talking about MP. Since I don't play much MP I always see games in terms of single player.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

No hangover here either, just long damn sleep. Our beer tasted better than all expectations and had some kick in it, too.

Well I suppose not having that clam shit is just going to favour me anyway. I also like so much that this game doesn't have a diplomacy engine that would allow you to spam somebody with ridiculous demands and give you stability hits or something like that. It's just "We can't let that empire bloat like shit, so I propose a non-aggression pact so that we might also get in the war.", "My troops are already moving there so I'm paying nothing for that province, move your forces wherever you like, I don't give a shit", "If your empire resists these changes in borders between you and him, we're forced to attack you also". That's diplomacy. Not "send 200 insults, that'll teach them".

 

[DakaSha]

Diplomacy in the game is almost more time consuming then the game itself sometimes xD. That can be good or bad i suppose ^^

 

[Topher]

Ok, I've got another question. When I beat an invading enemy army they often rout into one of my adjacent provinces and capture it. The issue is that the same army will do this again and again no matter how many times I beat them, they often don't take casualties during our battles because they run away without engaging me and rout to another province. They will literally bounce back and forth between two-three provinces indefinitely... how can I stop this?

Is it just a requirement that I always have 10-20 PD in every single province in order to prevent this?

* Nevermind... solid PD's more or less solved the problem and a few others too.

 

[DakaSha]

Enemies dont route into your provinces. In fact if an army is defeated while surrounded the army is annihilated. (If not surrounded they will route into random friendly provinces)
So you are very likely experiencing the AI being a retard and sending little piece of shit groups to attack you the same turn ^^ They will split their main force into piece of shit token forces the same turn to attack multiple provinces without a hope of winning. What a fucking piece of shit
The reason they keep routing is because the ai buys WAY TOO FUCKING MANY INDIES with low moral instead of nation units.

Get the better independents mod ^^

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I had tried this game numerous times in the past, but it didn't click for some reason. Just tried it again when I noticed this thread had popped up and hot damn this is a lovely game. I just purchased the full version and I'm about to crank it up right now.

 

[Topher]

Enemies dont route into your provinces. In fact if an army is defeated while surrounded the army is annihilated. (If not surrounded they will route into random friendly provinces)
So you are very likely experiencing the AI being a retard and sending little piece of shit groups to attack you the same turn ^^ They will split their main force into piece of shit token forces the same turn to attack multiple provinces without a hope of winning. What a fucking piece of shit
The reason they keep routing is because the ai buys WAY TOO FUCKING MANY INDIES with low moral instead of nation units.

Get the better independents mod ^^

I think what is happening is that they simply moving into a different province on the same turn that I moved to engage them. I think it just looks odd since you don't actually see the AI moves like in Total War and I'm more used to that series, I'll need to double check to see if a battle is even taking place but I'm pretty sure one isn't.

I'll check out that better independents mod, thanks.

 

[Yeesh]

I think what is happening is that they simply moving into a different province on the same turn that I moved to engage them. I think it just looks odd since you don't actually see the AI moves like in Total War and I'm more used to that series, I'll need to double check to see if a battle is even taking place but I'm pretty sure one isn't.

I'll check out that better independents mod, thanks.

Yeah, since the game is designed from the ground-up as multiplayer, the AI movement follows the same rules as yours. So when you move an army to one of its provinces at the same time it moves an army from that province to one of yours, it's random which battle will happen first.

Note that all (non-ritual) friendly movement (from your own province to your own province) happens before any (non-ritual) hostile movement, so you can always get reinforcements to somewhere before an attack. And magic movement via ritual spells (friendly or hostile) happens before ANY conventional movement. The turn resolution order is laid out in the manual somewhere.

 

[DakaSha]

I dont even think its random. As far as i can remember things are based in ID's.
So yes there is laid out turn resolution (which you NEED TO KNOW in a MP game) but the things that seem 'random' are in fact not random.
Things happen in lower number provinces first for instance. And armies also move based on their ID

Again i love the game.. but thats another example of some shoddy ass design/programming.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Hm, how about a codex game? One player has the game running for most days (I could do that but it requires use of Hamachi because... something), maybe victory points so that the game also ends before people just start quitting.

 

[mondblut]

So you are very likely experiencing the AI being a retard and sending little piece of shit groups to attack you the same turn ^^ They will split their main force into piece of shit token forces the same turn to attack multiple provinces without a hope of winning.

Since the previous poster admitted he doesn't bother to buy PD, the AI is acting anything but retard and his shit token forces have perfect hopes of winning

 

[DakaSha]

Yes but it does it no matter what the player does. It's just random.
I guess in that specific case it could work.. But it's not calculating any kind of risk/benefit

If it is then it's the shittiest algorithm ever written

 

[DakaSha]

Hm, how about a codex game? One player has the game running for most days (I could do that but it requires use of Hamachi because... something), maybe victory points so that the game also ends before people just start quitting.

Why not just use llamaserver or a method i wrote a thread about using dropbox:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic ... 0263fdc1c0


Either way is prob better then a direct connection

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

I don't see the advantage of that?

 

[DakaSha]

its the same as having a direct connection without having to keep a connection up.
edit: for the record i prob wouldnt be playing (at leats first game ) so i dont care.

I have played with all 3 methods and i rate the experiecnce:

1. my method
2. llamaserver
3. direct

 

[Topher]

So you are very likely experiencing the AI being a retard and sending little piece of shit groups to attack you the same turn ^^ They will split their main force into piece of shit token forces the same turn to attack multiple provinces without a hope of winning.

Since the previous poster admitted he doesn't bother to buy PD, the AI is acting anything but retard and his shit token forces have perfect hopes of winning

I pretty much only bought PD for my more important provinces for my first few games. I've started keeping a small compliment of 10 or so PD in every province and I haven't had the problem since. Plus the AI has become noticeably less aggressive even with it's large stacks... though that could have been an effect of the patch, too bad it also made the games copy protection way more potent but no matter my boxed copy should be here in a few days.

I'll admit that the AI does seem rather basic but since I'm fairly poor at strategy games I really don't notice.

 

[DakaSha]

the ai seems ok in the early game when it can overwhelm you by sheer force of numbers (when playing on impossible) but once you get to Mid game its pathetic and extremely easy to beat. It gets boring even on impossible sadly :-/

 

[Topher]

the ai seems ok in the early game when it can overwhelm you by sheer force of numbers (when playing on impossible) but once you get to Mid game its pathetic and extremely easy to beat. It gets boring even on impossible sadly :-/

Well with some luck my lack of skill should help to prolong the amount of time I've got before I start to really comp stomp the AI and maybe I'll end up giving MP a shot one day.

*Well, my legit copy arrived in the mail today, time to get this game installed and enslave nations with necromancy.

 

[gp1628]

the ai seems ok in the early game when it can overwhelm you by sheer force of numbers (when playing on impossible) but once you get to Mid game its pathetic and extremely easy to beat. It gets boring even on impossible sadly :-/

I consider the AI to be above average. Most games have AIs that barely get you thru the tutorial. But Dom3 can do abit better than that. Just getting you thru all of the nations is worth the money (patches to 73 nations? not counting modded ones you can add).

There are things you can do to help the AI play better. Game settings such as turning the indepts down, turning resources and supplies up. There are maps that help such as the Tower map, or maps that include alliance commands for the AI (keeps the AIs from attacking each other). Maps can also assign more intelligent pretenders, magic, scales, even extra equipment and starting army. There are also mods that are specifically for solo play or for boosting AIs. A server can also provide a D&D type game where one veteran plays an "AI" nation in order to provide a smarter AI for players to ally against.

But the BEST you can hope for is to get some reasonable play up to the beginning of late game. Dom3 is a fantastic game because the strategy is so deep and has unlimited variation that you can play around with for years. BUT its impossible to get a late game AI because the strategy is so deep and has unlimited variation.

Ive had Dom3 for more years than most people and I still play mostly Solo. But just like MP play, eventually vanilla can get old. For better solo play I tend to pile on maps and mods that add more More MORE. I play with more pretenders, more heroes, more spells, more magic sites, more nations, more surprises.

 

[gp1628]

There are many ways to cut micromanagement if you wish to play a larger game. Special maps such as Tower, or NI maps, or PI maps. Also playing with harsher game settings for gold, resources, and supplies will tend to force the play to include fewer units and smaller armies for everyone in the game. Turning the independent strength down can also save you from late game micromanagement.

As far as what size the game is MEANT to be played in (which I saw earlier in the thread), check the games popup tips when telling it to create a random map. The game itself considers a "small" map (and therefore a "small" game) to be 10 provinces per player in the game. It considers a "medium" game to be 15 provs per player. And it considers it to be a large game if there are 20 provs per player. So if a game has 8 players in it then an 120 province map would be a medium Dominions 3 game. To me that would define how the game was "meant" to be played. I am thrilled tho that it has such a huge amount of variety available to keep game play (solo and mp) from getting old.

 

[DakaSha]

Yes yes.. mhh.. yes... mhm.. too bad the AI is pathetic and not over average

 

[gp1628]

Yes yes.. mhh.. yes... mhm.. too bad the AI is pathetic and not over average

I dont agree with that. Im a dedicated solo player. Most of the games I have there is an AI which can barely get you thru the tutorial. This one is adequate for exploring each of the nations. With 73 in the game now (not to mention additonal modded ones) that is a lot of game time. Of course it wont get into late-game but then what game does? The more complicated the game, the less likely an AI get win. Im not saying the AI is fantastic but I do think it is above average. It would take a lot of AI to ever do really well in Dom3

Of course many people are pushing to get to multiplay. Many will read in the forums the AIs most likely mistakes and how to respond. And if they are pushing to MP they also tend to turn up the independents which gives them the best testing ground for MP expansion but the worse AI. It tends to leave them with a bad memory of the AI.

It doesnt matter if its solo play or multi play, eventually vanilla gets old and only adding mods will improve the experience again. Altho with THIS game, vanilla does last longer than in most games I own. IMHO