Divinity: Original Sin Pre-Release Thread

[Jack]

That was a well argumented critique.

Click Roguey's name and then click ignore. Do it for your own sanity.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

That was a well argumented critique.

Click Roguey's name and then click ignore. Do it for your own sanity.

But what would Lesi say to that?

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

Is it class based?
No. Just like all other Divinity games, it's classless.

Believe it or not, a lot of people at Larian are pretty oldschool in what they play. So is Swen. So am I. We had come up with dual dialogs, so a party made sense. And if you have a party, TB combat makes sense. Even if it turns out that this is suicide, at least we died trying. We have always tried to make what we would like to play ourselves. I'm not saying we were always successful, but that is what drives us: we don't make games because "there is a demand", but because we are looking at ourselves. And if there are enough guys at Larian that would play it, then why would that be a bad market analysis? 90% of our employees are RPG fans. As good an analysis as any.

Hmm. Divine Divinity has 3 classess : Wizard, Survivor, Warrior. And in the later part of Divinity 2 you choose between Ranger, Wizard, Warrior o_O.

As for the second part we'll have to vote with our wallets and hope for the best.

 

[Jaesun]

Hmm. Divine Divinity has 3 classess : Wizard, Survivor, Warrior. And in the later part of Divinity 2 you choose between Ranger, Wizard, Warrior o_O.

None of the skills in the games are "blocked" from your decision of class. Thus classless system.

 

[Berekän]

Thanks for taking the time to answer all of that ForkTong, and great answers too, makes me even more excited about the game.

 

[Gragt]

We gave him one sandwich and a couple of non-alcoholic beverages.

Bleh, the sandwich was yummy, unlike that crap. But now that you mention it, there may have been something in that water …

 

[Deacdo]

Will there be difficulty options in the game (preferable ones that impacts AI or encounter strength, rather than the usual "you do less damage they do more" etc.)? It's a challenge of party based games...it's never fun for the player to have to *work* at making the game challenging. It's fine if you have henchmen and the game is designed so you don't need them...as long as they is a mode that's design so you *do*.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Will there be difficulty options in the game (preferable ones that impacts AI or encounter strength, rather than the usual "you do less damage they do more" etc.)? It's a challenge of party based games...it's never fun for the player to have to *work* at making the game challenging. It's fine if you have henchmen and the game is designed so you don't need them...as long as they is a mode that's design so you *do*.

This is new territory for Larian (TB combat), their previous games were considerably broken difficulty wise, hopefully the balance will be better in Original sin.

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

Is it class based?
No. Just like all other Divinity games, it's classless.

Believe it or not, a lot of people at Larian are pretty oldschool in what they play. So is Swen. So am I. We had come up with dual dialogs, so a party made sense. And if you have a party, TB combat makes sense. Even if it turns out that this is suicide, at least we died trying. We have always tried to make what we would like to play ourselves. I'm not saying we were always successful, but that is what drives us: we don't make games because "there is a demand", but because we are looking at ourselves. And if there are enough guys at Larian that would play it, then why would that be a bad market analysis? 90% of our employees are RPG fans. As good an analysis as any.

Hmm. Divine Divinity has 3 classess : Wizard, Survivor, Warrior.

Didn't really matter far as stats and skills went. I chose Warrior and finished the game throwing mageec meesl at everyone.

Same as in Divinity 2, where you could keep pouring your stats wherever you wanted and select whatever skills you wanted. Always made a fighter/mage hybrid with two-handed weapons and lots of points in fireball and fury. (or was it called berserk?)

Yeah.

 

[ForkTong]

ForkTong - can you comment on dungeon-delving / questing ratio?

You mean dungeons don't have quests?

Real answer: we are trying to keep the experience varied. I.e. one "screen" you explore, next you talk, next you fight, next you find cool stuff, next you fight a particulary tough fight, next you explore, etc.

Wow thanks for going over so many details

Yes well. It kinda got the team going: "Great job, dude, what is left now to talk about for the next six months?"

Divine Divinity has 3 classess : Wizard, Survivor, Warrior. And in the later part of Divinity 2 you choose between Ranger, Wizard, Warrior

In Divinity 1 you basically chose presets that defined your starting stats, starting skills and visual. You could still freely distribute points and choose any skill.

In Div2 expansion, you could choose a preset if you started a new game (to start with an "up-to-level" char), go custom IIRC, or load a Div2:ED char.

Thanks for taking the time to answer all of that

SPARE TIME thank you very much. Nah. Don't mind. If I weren't working at Larian, I'd do more than lurk here. I cannot mingle in discussions now, cause everyone would be waiting to jump on me going "oh yeah so why didn't you..." or "you think you're so much better well then..." etc.

I did have the decency to speak English too.

Yeah. Sorry. I can understand French, but if you'd ask to form sentences of my own, you'd still be here.

About grid: there actually is a grid beneath the world, of course, just not visualized, and the cells are pretty small.

About balance: I'm guessing we have six months to test that out.

About difficulty levels: good question if it has impact on AI. It is possible to do so. I should check that with code.

(For instance, it is already possible to have enemies do stuff based on their INT. E.g. if INT<7 then walk through all the ice and fire and poison surfaces, else try to avoid. So adding difficulty to a condition like that is possible.)

 

[JarlFrank]

Wow thanks for going over so many details

Yes well. It kinda got the team going: "Great job, dude, what is left now to talk about for the next six months?"

Don't worry, what happens in the Codex stays in the Codex.

 

[Roguey]

That was a well argumented critique.

All right, here.

Basically I think that most designers are overly concerned with what's come before when they sit down to write CRPG mechanics. When looking at mechanics that typically go into CRPGs, it's pretty hard to reverse-engineer a plan of intent. The conclusion I'm usually left with is that they wanted the system to "look like an RPG" on a UI screen. They have classes and stats and skills and skill/talent trees and a ton of derived stats when probably not all of that is necessary.

I believe that game designers, whether working in the RPG genre or otherwise, should establish what they want the player to be doing within the world. That is, they must ask themselves what they want the core activities of the player to be. Within those activities, the designer can find ways to allow growth over time in a variety of ways. How they want that growth to occur and what sort of choices they want to force the player to make -- that's what should drive the design of the advancement/RPG system.

Instead it usually seems like most designers sit down and say, "Well what are the ability scores going to be?"

 

[Murk]

I hesitate to ask but... are you quoting your own past postings or is that from Sawyer?

I have a lot of problems with that post, but honestly arguing against it would be pointless -- everyone more or less knows where they stand on these matters and I do not believe people will change their minds on a matter because an argument's been redone for the upteenth time. So I should probably stop posting right now. Should. I hate myself.

Still, there's nothing wrong with having attribute-based systems -- if a designer claims that some games can be made better using a non-descript, vague "variety" of ways then sure, go for it. There are plenty of games that allow for growth in atypical to cRPGs methods. That doesn't mean that conventional attribute-based systems are somehow obsolete, especially since in a computer game nearly everything -- no matter how abstracted or different -- will boil down to number crunching on some level.

 

[tuluse]

I'm pretty sure it's Sawyer, but really it's a too vague of a response for why the ability scores in this game suck.

Personally, I'm not fond of ability scores increasing as fast as it sounds like they will in this game.

 

[Roguey]

Yes it's Josh's and no he's not saying "get rid of attributes." He's saying you should not go into making a game thinking of attributes first or even midway through the process. In Project Eternity, the blueprint for a nigh-perfect RPG, the attributes are going to be the very last thing he puts into the game because of how problematic they are.

 

[Gragt]

Yeah. Sorry. I can understand French, but if you'd ask to form sentences of my own, you'd still be here.

No worries, I got the same problem with Dutch. I wish I was better at it. I was in favour of speaking English to put everyone equally on the same footing but Swen started to use French and seemed comfy with it so I just followed.

 

[Murk]

Yes it's Josh's and no he's not saying "get rid of attributes." He's saying you should not go into making a game thinking of attributes first or even midway through the process. In Project Eternity, the blueprint for a nigh-perfect RPG, the attributes are going to be the very last thing he puts into the game because of how problematic they are.

So how was that an explanation of why the attributes in D: OS "suck"?

I honestly can't tell when you're joking about your fanboyism or when you're serious anymore.

 

[Black]

Can this be a Divinity OS thread instead of roguey forcing her lgbt shit onto others?

 

[thesoup]

For the 56189165189415318767534618918916816318364894736498468436th time, Roguey is a guy.

 

[Minttunator]

Thanks for all that information, ForkTong!

What's the status of the potential/upcoming Kickstarter campaign, is that still in the works?

 

[Roguey]

So how was that an explanation of why the attributes in D: OS "suck"?

I honestly can't tell when you're joking about your fanboyism or when you're serious anymore.

No clear path of intent. They don't even know if they should give extra AP for meeting certain speed thresholds (hot tip: don't). I don't see a reason why I should ever put any points into con at all, just like with most RPGs and it's clear that some character concepts can safely dump certain stats without feeling any sting (right now I'm seeing str/speed/perc, dex/speed/perc and int/speed with little incentive to put any kind of major investment in anything else).

 

[Kem0sabe]

From the latest RPGwatch preview

The story setup reads like a bad fantasy fanfic, hopefully the combat will make up for it.

Spoiler

Divinity: Original Sin is one of two Divinity games currently in development at Larian Studios. Where Dragon Commander is a RTS with RPG elements, Original Sin is a full blown RPG which takes us back to a time before the first Divinity game.

Almost a year ago I previewed Divinity: Original Sin for the first time. I am not going to repeat what I've written in that article (not much at least) and will focus on what has changed or what is new compared to the first preview. Besides that I now got the chance to actually play the game. For a complete impression of the game you might want to read that first preview (again) as well.

The Story

​

One thing that has completely changed during the last year is the background story. There are two main characters, a man and a woman, who are both students at the headquarters of the Source Hunters. This organization has been created by the council of seven to ban the use of Source, which is used for magic. The reason for this is that even though Source can be used for good, it can also be used for evil. The Source Hunters are responsible for locating the users of Source and stopping them from using it again.
The headquarters of the Source Hunters was attacked and the inhabitants were unable to stop the attackers. Our two heroes are the only two survivors of that attack. Once they escape from the headquarters they meet the young Zandalor. He was traveling to the Source Hunters' headquarters because the council and all its buildings are covered in a thick layer of ice. Zandalor discovered he is unable to remove the ice, none of his tricks were successful. As he recognized this was Source at work, he came to the Source Hunters for help. When he noticed that their headquarters was attacked as well he realizes the attacks are connected and asks the two survivors to go into the world to learn as much as possible about Source magic in order to be able to solve the council's problem.
Although the use of Source is forbidden, our two heroes know a bit of Source, because Source Hunters must have knowledge of it in order to do their job.

A classless system

Divinity: Original Sin is like the other Divinity games a classless game where you can develop your character into whatever you like. To do that you can modify the primary stats of each of the characters whenever you level up:

• Strength influences the damage for non-magic non-ranged weapons and the weapons you can use.
• Dexterity influences the damage for ranged weapons and what you can carry
• Intelligence influences the damage with magic, which spells you can use and the amount of mana.
• Constitution influences the amount of hit points and resistances, like poison and disease.
• Speed influences how far you can walk with one action point and your defense against attacks.
• Perception influences how good you are in attacking someone, the chance to hit, and how far you can see and how well you can hear.

Next to these primary stats there are many more secondary stats, like how well you can inflict damage, how good your resistances are for specific damage types, but also non-combat related stats like charisma, luck, affinity and affection. The secondary stats are influenced by the primary stats and by your actions in the game.

​

Any opponent you encounter is using the same system and can have access to the same spells and weapons as you would have. To defeat them you will have to take into account what their strengths and weaknesses are. A fire elemental for example cannot be harmed by fire and could even heal if you throw a fireball at it. Although for a fire elemental it is obvious that it has a high resistance against fire and a low resistance against cold, for many other opponents it is not. The game does provide an option to check what the statistics are of your opponents depending on your intelligence level. A higher level will show you more stats. To temporarily see more stats you can also eat specific food like fish, which is one of the things that increases your intelligence for a short time.

Single player versus multiplayer

We already know that the game has two protagonists and as explained in the previous article, you can hire two mercenaries allowing a total of four players to play the game simultaneously. However the focus is on the two heroes, so all conversations and interactions are limited to these two. Also the two mercenaries do not have a story of their own. At the moment their only purpose is to provide aid in combat.
I've seen the game in action in multiplayer mode, but I was wondering how this would play in single player mode. To test this I got the opportunity to play the game by myself and the short answer is that it plays like one would expect from a game with a party of two and turn-based combat. Playing solo never felt like something that was added on top of the multiplayer game. The game is controlled with a mouse and has short-cut keys for the various panels, such as inventory, character and skills panels. Selecting the icon of the other protagonist lets you control that person instead. In my solo game-play I did not notice any game elements that were not as I would have expected them to be.
My solo gameplay was automatically changed into a multiplayer game when the second player connected to my game and control of the second character was handed to that player. It also changed back into a single player game when that second player left again.

​

Divinity: Original Sin uses a dialogue system in which the two protagonists can disagree with each other on the actions to take. Secondary stats like intimidation and charming are used to determine who will win such a discussion. The results of the choices made does have an influence on the relation between the two protagonists, making it possible to develop them into haters, lovers or anything in between, which will have its influence in the game.

Editor

A full scale editor will be shipped with the game which allows everyone to make mods forDivinity: Original Sin. This is the same editor as is used by Larian Studios to develop the game, so everything they have done you should be able to do as well. It is based on their collective knowledge of creating RPGS gathered in the last 15 years.
Creating a mod usually starts with creating a new level. Using the various tools available a terrain can be created with trees, hills, valleys, rocks, grass, houses and other elements. To create a house you select the type of wall you want to use and drag your mouse to place the walls. The windows are automatically placed on these walls, but their position can be changed at any time. Adding a door is just one click away.
Characters that are placed in the game can be given any look. By means of the editor you can mix and match different types of heads, bodies, limbs and their colors. Any color is possible so you could create a Smurf mod if you like. The characters can be given any one of the available automated behaviors or you can create a behavior manually.
The trigger used to detect if you are stealing something does not require any manual scripting. All that is needed is to create an area in the UI where the detection is enabled and assign the items to an owner and all items are automatically 'protected'. Once this is in place the characters can be given stories and story events can be scripted.
By adding a series of screenshots of the editor I've created the video below.


If you need something special or are not happy with the default behavior provided by the editor you can always go to the scripting language itself and modify things until you are happy with it.
Once you have tested everything and are ready to finish the creation of your mod, it can be published online and you can play it with your friends.

Wrapping it up

Divinity: Original Sin in its current version is, as can be expected, a somewhat incomplete game. It even crashed, but that also showed something that was working very well. The game crashed for the other player. For me everything kept on working. The only thing that happened was that I got control back of the other character.
The game is estimated to be released in the last quarter of this year and all open ends and balancing issues should be fixed by that time.

​

There are many things in Divinity: Original Sin to look forward to. It is a highly interactive world where you can move everything around that is not nailed to the ground or wall and where you can combine items into something new. You can use the environment to your benefit, like using the water puddle your opponents are standing in and turn it into ice to disable them. It has a unique dialogue system which makes it more interesting in multiplayer mode. You can't just take everything you want as that is considered stealing and you might even be thrown in jail because of that. It is the first Divinity game that has turn-based combat and it has the quests, humor and character appearances you already know from previous Divinity games (like ZixZax, Jake, Arhu and Zandalor to name a few). If you are worried about the multiplayer options, I would advise you to don't do that. The game plays very well as a single player game.
In short the game felt and looked like Divine Divinity on steroids.

 

[Jaesun]

Story sounds fine. Hopefully we will get to see a combat video. <3

 

[Kem0sabe]

Story sounds fine. Hopefully we will get to see a combat video. <3

The co-op mechanics sound pretty nice tho, especially the redundancy if one of the players drops out.

 

[ghostdog]

The story setup reads like a bad fantasy fanfic,

Their stories were never anything special. What made up for this is that they never took things very seriously and they always injected humor in their games.