Divine Divinity: should have tried it sooner!

[Relayer71]

Just got Divine Divinity a few weeks ago after having passed on it countless times due to all the Diablo comparisons and I have to say I am pleasantly surprised.

While it starts off a little Diabloesque and I was beginning to wonder if a strict dungeon crawling experience was all it had to offer it eventually blossomed into this cool RPG with one of the most convincing game worlds I've ever played in.

It's commendable what Larian Studios pulled off: one gigantic and cohesive play area with no loading or noticable area transitions (unless you enter a dungeon or cave).

Also very immersive with the wildlife running around (you can kill boars, chickens, rabbits for food!) and the large amounts of NPCs in one spot. It really gives the impression that there IS a military conflict with the huge amounts of soldier NPCs.

You can't just walk into someone's house and take their belongings, the NPCs take notice and comment or act appropriately. It's little things like these that can make a big difference in an RPG.

The game also seems non-linear as far as I can tell - I got stuck in the large (very large) dungeon the game starts with and thought I was doomed to restart the game and figure out what I did wrong - perhaps not building an uber enough character or picking the right class. But I left the first town and realized I could wander around freely and even move the plot along a bit. In addition there seem to be a lot of varied quests (so far) and none of them out of place or context, the dialogue is good (sprinkling of humor is a nice touch) and the character building system is very flexible (although "class" means very little).

Now none of these are revolutionary concepts but so many games add one or two of these "features" and drop the ball on the rest but this seems to be a well designed game with the world feeling very natural and dynamic.

To top it off the sound effects are very well done, the soundtrack is first rate and the graphics look stunning as far as 2D goes (so much detail).

I still have quite a bit to go before I finish the game so my opinion can change but so far this seems to be excellent, surprised it isn't held in higher esteem.

 

[SilasMalkav]

I played that ages ago, and although I remember it being very good, I never completed it. Tried to start playing it a while ago, but old school rpg tropes (elves, dwarves, ancient evils etc) just piss me off now.

I remember standing in the castle and throwing loot out the door for ages when I first started playing. Fun times.

 

[nik2008ofs]

"I still have quite a bit to go before I finish the game so my opinion can change but so far this seems to be excellent, surprised it isn't held in higher esteem."

It is well-liked here in the Codex, for many of the reasons you mentioned, plus the excellent soundtrack that you didn't commend on.

It is the sequel (well, not exactly a sequel, that will be Divine Divinity 2, but it uses the same engine and is set on the same game world), Beyond Divinity that the Codex (deservingly) hates, for many reasons I won't go into.

 

[Elwro]

It's a very good game in the middle section. I was satisfied with this title even though it got bland in the end. Great music, btw.

 

[Gragt]

It unfortunately ends like it begins: with a big (even bigger for the end) dungeon crawl and it is a bit anticlimactic. It's just north worth exploring during the very last chapter as there is nothing special to discover.

Did you complete the first dungeon? Just so you, you'll be required to do it at some point in the main quest.

Speaking of the main quest, it's actually the least interesting of the game, being very generic. Side-quests offer a lot more variety and often choices (though you get a lot more benefits for being good than evil).

 

[Xi]

It starts a bit slow, and ends with a sigh, but the middle is where it's at! After you get into it, there is quite a bit of game-play to experience. This is where the game shines as it does a lot of things right. Far more than a diablo clone, in fact, it only borrows the Action-Rpg style and that's about it. Definitely 2 thumbs up for any enthusiast of A-RPGs, one of the best.

Still need to play Beyond Divinity, it's sitting in my room atm. Some day I will have the time.

 

[Lesifoere]

To the OP: Don't pick up Beyond Divinity.

Xi: what are you, a masochist?

 

[Binary]

It starts a bit slow, and ends with a sigh, but the middle is where it's at!

Are we still talking about DivDiv here? ;-)

 

[someone else]

Didn't complete DD, deleted from my HD. It fails as an ARPG: poor game balance in terms of items and skills, unfun combat. The good: is the Ultima-ish urban enviroment, NPCs and quests.

 

[kenney bounces]

Divine divinity was pretty fun. This is coming from a guy who hates diablo clone games and real time in general.

Lots of fun quests in divine divinity. Beyond divinity was basically divine divinity without any quests.. just hack and slash. =(

 

[Relayer71]

"I still have quite a bit to go before I finish the game so my opinion can change but so far this seems to be excellent, surprised it isn't held in higher esteem."

It is well-liked here in the Codex, for many of the reasons you mentioned, plus the excellent soundtrack that you didn't commend on.

I have seen mention in the Codex but it seems 50/50, positive/negative - with the word "Diablo" coming up more often than not but I guess I meant in general (pssst...there are other sites out there).

It just seems like a classic from the time I've spent with it. Of course this is all premature, I admit but I haven't had genuine "fun" with an RPG in quite some time.

The last new RPG I purchased, NWN 2 was just halfway decent, nothing special. Couldn't get into the last Troika Vampire game which I only just played about 6 months ago. Gothic 3, bleh. Tried replaying IWD 2 to finally finish it but it bored me to death.

And recently started playing Arcanum again (never really got too far due to some bug) but put it on hold since Drog Black Tooth's been doing excellent work polishing it up. So I'd just given up on PC RPGs and went back to console gaming after several years (got a PS2 in December). Well DD has gotten me back to the PC.

Oh, I did mention the music btw.

Did you complete the first dungeon? Just so you, you'll be required to do it at some point in the main quest.ic.

I did go back when I had gained a few levels and completed it. Pretty tough for it being the first dungeon - makes me wonder how many others gave up at that point.

 

[Xi]

To the OP: Don't pick up Beyond Divinity.

Xi: what are you, a masochist?

No, I just attribute it to a bad movie or the like. I never leave a movie because I feel like it's important to at least view something in its entirety before forming final conclusions. So, I will play BD in its entirety and then decide if I liked it or not. I take people's comments and critiques into consideration before a purchase, but ultimately I realize that my taste is much different than anyone else I have ever met. Therefore I am far more forgiving when it comes to sequels of game series I liked. /shrug

Are we still talking about DivDiv here? ;-)

Yep ;P

 

[Lesifoere]

Well, I also finished BD in its entirety, so I guess I shouldn't talk. The hours I'll never get back. ;_;

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

I tried playing this game but didn't understand well the character build system, and got my ass handed to me in the first big dungeon. Anyway, I heard it's not very balanced, e.g. only fighter class is viable, since you can learn any skills in any class anyway, but other classes have bigger penalties. And there were some exploits with alchemy IIRC.

The graphics engine is superb though, excellent animation. But controls and interface seemed clunky to me. The inventory doesn't have a grid, so the stuff just piles up.

Should I give it another chance? And if yes, please suggest a character build.

 

[Texas Red]

It could have been much better if the combat was anything *but* Diablo-esque.

 

[Gragt]

I tried playing this game but didn't understand well the character build system, and got my ass handed to me in the first big dungeon.

Yes, the start is a bit unforgiving, it gets easier as you level up though (the end might be too easy though, it would have been nice if the challenge level did somehow scale).

Anyway, I heard it's not very balanced, e.g. only fighter class is viable, since you can learn any skills in any class anyway, but other classes have bigger penalties. And there were some exploits with alchemy IIRC.

Yes and no. Since everyone can choose from all the skills without any penalty, the difference from each class is the special move and how the attributes translate as stats. For exemple the warrior will get more damage from strenght than the wizard and that one will get more mana from intelligence than the survivor, etc. This means that if you want a spellcaster, the wizard will be better but nothing prevents you to turn your warrior into one, though it would be more effective in that situation to have your warrior focus on physical combat and get only a few spells as complement (or none!) but honestly the choice is yours. You can argue with reason that the open skill system makes the class selection a bit trivial even if there are differences but I actually liked that aspect from the game.

Also note that at higher levels you can use charms to add to your stats, even if you never put a point of intelligence, you can then give a very nice mana pool to your warrior for exemple.

The graphics engine is superb though, excellent animation. But controls and interface seemed clunky to me. The inventory doesn't have a grid, so the stuff just piles up.

Yeah, the inventory simulates extremely well the content of a backpack. You need to separate stuff and at least it stays sorted for as long as it stays there. Which sucks a bit for the couple of times where you loose your inventory as when you get it back it will be all ordered in a big pile of junk.

Should I give it another chance? And if yes, please suggest a character build.

Yes, you should definitely give it a chance. For what it is, it's great.

The fighter's special move (whirlwind attack) is very good and stays useful during the whole game. The survivor can sneak and that does not seem very useful in a game where you still spend your time killing hordes of monsters, to be honest I never tried one but heard it works well with the backstab skill so I give it the benefit of doubt. The wizard has an interesting move allowing you to change your place with that of another monster, allowing you to escape while surrounded. It's a bit the opposite of the warrior but it works great and gives you a better chance of survival.

Many of the skills are useful, a few are worthless and some are better than others. Alchemy is useful for everyone but you need it only up to level 4 to make the big potions, at level 5 you can use augmentor herbs allowing you to boost any potion of one level... might spend it somewhere else. Pickpocket is useful for only one quest in the game and it requires only one point (and if you do not mind the reputation hit, you can kill the guy and deliver his item to the questgiver, the victim isn't used in any other quest and plays no important role at all) so unless you plan to rob people for their belongings you do not need a high score. Lockpick on the other hand is extremely useful to max. Identify is also very nice to have if you want to be able to id everything you find without constantly running back and forth to the blacksmith. Speaking of the blacksmith, one level of repair is enough to make sure your equipment won't break (unless its durability is 1). The Heal spell is also very useful for anyone but you shouldn't put any point in it as you can receive the points from quests (you can do one such quest in Aleroth before even entering the first dungeon, it helps). Also consider maxing the charm skill, it's very useful by the end of the game. The wisdom skill (giving you a bonus to your experience gains) seem nice but isn't worth investing in as in the end of the game you only get a level or two more, assuming you kill everything and complete all quests. But it's nice if you can have a level on a good piece equipment to level faster, but if the item is not good it isn't worth equipping at all, just see it as a side bonus.

Note that some items can give bonus to a skill but of course this is completely random. I always try to get a piece of equipment giving me a bonus to pickpocket so I do not need to waste one point for the quest. While some unique (named) items are placed at fixed locations, ALL items get random stats. If you know you're gonna get an item, save and then pick it up and identify it. Sometimes you can get a better deal and sometimes the unique item can turn worthless (white). It's a bit like cheating but it can be infuriating to sometimes get a flow of unique items turned worthless.

You can earn bonus (sometimes more than one) to Heal, Alchemy, Lockpick or Pickpocket during the game. You can also find random spellbook from monsters or store to learn skill, consider these. Unfortunately if you never played you can't know where you get these bonus and can't plan ahead. So you might max a skill up and discover that the next quest gives you a level in it as a reward...

If you want to master melee weapons, try to pick one and stick to it, maybe wait until you get a good weapon. As a rule of thumb swords are more available than other weapons and thus your chance of getting a nice sword is higher but you can also take other weapons easily. The warrior tree can add elemental damage to hits but even maxed the chances are very low and you're better using the spiritual damage skill that always add the damage to the hits (plus very few enemies are immune to spiritual damage, mostly ghost).

If you want an easy time, you should consider taking one of those skills but be aware that they are overpowered and can make the game too easy: poison weapon (even lvl 1 is powerful as increasing lvl only increase the number of charges, the potency of the poison is defined by the kind of poison you apply), freeze or create trap (the traps are mostly worthless except for the scorpion trap that is just too powerful for its own good).

One last small tip: if you get one point of alchemy, you can mix potions together. Mixing a health and a mana potion makes a white restoration potion. These are a lot better than regular potions as they restore a percentage of life and mana while the regular health and mana potions will restore a fixed amount. So even by the end of the game, the small restoration potions can be useful.

Well that should be all for now.

Edit: forgot this one: if you ever get a weapon with the freeze attribute, consider using it or getting rid of it right away. While some monsters can resist the freeze spell, NO monster can resist the freeze effect of a weapon, allowing you to freeze them with your first hit and basically declaring you winner of the fight. It is extremely overpowered and you might be lucky enough to find one such weapon right at the start of the game. Again it makes the game a walk in the park and you may not want that.

New edit: forgot another handy tip: if you find a locked chest that you can only open with lockpick but do not have a high enough skill, you can take the chest without by dragging it into your inventory as long as you are strong enough! You can then drop it somewhere safe and open it later when you have the necessary skill. It's nice to be able to manipulate your environment but it's a lot nicer when you can make something useful out of it like this.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Wow, thanks for the detailed explanation. I guess, I'll give it another try.

 

[Fenril]

About beyond divinity...I dont understand the hatred.

I found it a very solid and engrossing rpg once I got used to the interface and controls for the main character and the dark knight.

It will be a real disapointment at first if you are expecting a true sequel to divine divinity like I did at first, but other than that I cant see how anyone can say its not a good game after spending a good number of hours with it..

I dont find it the best rpg of all time far from it, but when I think about beyond divinity and other rpgs released at that time or the lack of them I dont undestand how someone can say beyond divinity is a POS...Ive seen more praise for far inferior rpgs in forums like these.

The combat is better than in divine divinity overall, divine divinities combat was a diablo 2 clone only with far fewer combat abilities. The character development is a matter of taste but its very open ended, in the case of divine divinity the character development seems better in principle but too many skills are unbalanced.

I finished beyond divinity and after a couple of tries I never got the stamina to finish divine divinity, one could argue that beyond divinity is linear...and it is, but divine divinity besides the charm also lacked substance in some areas like most rpgs that aim to be as open ended as possible.

If you are already spending time with an RPG you love or are not looking for a good RPG game no need to try it, but I have to say if you like PC RPG's and played most good titles available and not beyond divinity you really should give it a go and after a short time you will find you are not just killing time with it.

 

[Lesifoere]

It will be a real disapointment at first if you are expecting a true sequel to divine divinity like I did at first, but other than that I cant see how anyone can say its not a good game after spending a good number of hours with it..

Let's see. The shitty voice-acting. The shitty interface. The shitty spell customization system. The clusterfuck of stats (how many resistances were there? "Ethereal" and "spirit" need to be separate categories why?). The story being unengaging, the writing subpar, and oh Jesus, the battlefields--trying so hard to emulate the random generation of Diablo 2, but failing absolutely. In short, everything about this game that can possibly suck, sucks.

The novella that comes bundled with it is also pretty crappy, but that's neither here nor there. The same author is responsible for a great deal of the dialogue in the game, however.

 

[Fenril]

Lets see..I find the interface well made for a space pause realtime combat system, the story and world is better and more engaging than say the NWN1 official campaign and others and several other minor rpg games I remember trying.
Most puzzles are well designed, the stat/spell system is very flexible and well designed and even allows for some point recovery if you fuck up, alot of quests have interesting twists, the 2 character scheme allows for different playstyles and handles very well once you build several abilities, I dont remember the voices but I also dont remember the dialog as being craptastic.

 

[Murk]

I gave Divine Divinity 10/10 easily and any comparisons to diablo end at the battle system, the game is actually fun to play with interesting quests and humor and just fun to explore.

i really wish they reworked the randomization of items a bit but eh, maybe div 2.

Beyond Divinity seemed more like an experiment with the game engine with a weird mod thrown on it - it started great but went to poop pretty easily i thought.

 

[Volourn]

Overrated game. It's just a mass combat figgting billions of zombies, orcs, and other trash. First town was ok... after that.. *puke*

 

[Gragt]

Overrated game. It's just a mass combat figgting billions of zombies, orcs, and other trash. First town was ok... after that.. *puke*

Yeah, that's exactly how I would describe the NWN OC.

 

[bezimek]

Great post Gragt :!:

IMHO DD is very good crpg game with interesting story, dialogue system, fine world and quests.

 

[Gragt]

Thanks for the comments, it's mostly stuff from the top of my head. There is certainly a lot more to say and in a better way but I guess it can help if you're a bit lost in the start of the game or need help to plan your character.