Deus Ex Deus Ex: Mankind Divided Pre-Release Thread

[Gnidrologist]

Not to mention that xp bonus for non-lethal play makes no sense. That's probably one of the ''limp-wristed canadian'' things. Cuz killing is bad, mkay.

 

[J1M]

Not to mention that xp bonus for non-lethal play makes no sense. That's probably one of the ''limp-wristed canadian'' things. Cuz killing is bad, mkay.

Modern game design is about forcing people to play in a way that they would prefer not to via psychological incentives. The idea that the modern 'core gamer' might want to play a game methodically with stealth doesn't enter the mind of the marketing person running the focus group. Marketing people are all about "making a splash" and "cinematic experiences" (aka "I wish I worked in film") so naturally the results of their research reflect these personal biases.

 

[CyberP]

I don't like the non-lethal and lethal stuff, going non-lethal isn't much different than going lethal on most situations "Should I kill this guard with my silenced pistol or use the taser gun to make him uncouncious for the rest of the level? So many choices." It is better than having no option at all but if there was some consequence to it or, at least, were actually really different ways to play...

In DX1 they are different (non-lethal is most challenging & limiting) and there is consequence (usually in the form of NPC dialogue/reactions, but sadly not a whole lot for this specifically). It's the result of Looking Glass simulation principles also of course, than solely the concept of role-playing. It is a choice we'd have in real life so it is a choice we'd expect to be possible in the simulation. It really isn't "gamist", although HR, as with a a number of things, twists it in that image by rewarding more xp for it.

Edit: And ACHIEVEMENTS of course.

 

[Siobhan]

An obvious in-gameplay difference between the two would be that lethal takedowns can be rather messy, so hiding the body wont' be enough to conceal your presence. Non-lethal takedowns have the disadvantage that the victim will come to after a while. DXHR partially implemented the latter and allows unconcious guards to be woken up, and as far as I'm concerned that's its only noteworthy improvement over DX. But I don't know of any game that fully implements this distinction. It's a shame, because gameplay consequences are the only way to make the choice difficult --- who cares whether a bunch of polygons in front of you should be rendered inactive with weapon A or weapon B unless that affects your progression through the mission?

 

[tuluse]

In Metal Gear Solid guards can be knocked out, tranq'd or killed, and the knocked out and tranq'd guards wake up after so long (tranqing lasts longer than knocking out).

 

[Backstabber]

In Deus Ex 1, the advantage of using non-lethal weapons was that they were the only way to take out human enemies in a completely "silent" way. Killing enemies always causes them to use the loud death scream which can alert nearby guys, even if you used stuff like the stealth pistol.

 

[CyberP]

who cares whether a bunch of polygons in front of you should be rendered inactive with weapon A or weapon B unless that affects your progression through the mission?

Quite a few people, actually. If you can call codexers people anyway

In Deus Ex 1, the advantage of using non-lethal weapons was that they were the only way to take out human enemies in a completely "silent" way. Killing enemies always causes them to use the loud death scream which can alert nearby guys, even if you used stuff like the stealth pistol.

Ah yes, I forgot about the silence of the non-lethal weapons.

Edit: misinformation removed.

In Metal Gear Solid guards can be knocked out, tranq'd or killed, and the knocked out and tranq'd guards wake up after so long (tranqing lasts longer than knocking out).

The AI is really fucking good in that game series, got to hand it to Kojima Productions.

 

[Gnidrologist]

In Deus Ex 1, the advantage of using non-lethal weapons was that they were the only way to take out human enemies in a completely "silent" way. Killing enemies always causes them to use the loud death scream which can alert nearby guys, even if you used stuff like the stealth pistol.

Which is kinda retarded, because shot to the head should not leave any time for an agony scream. Btw, takedowns with blades in HR also cause more racket than knockouts.

 

[CyberP]

Which is kinda retarded, because shot to the head should not leave any time for an agony scream. Btw, takedowns with blades in HR also cause more racket than knockouts.

Already fixed

Sorry.

There is/was a lot of dumb flaws in DX, but again, mostly all in the little details. HR is dumb to the core.

 

[Love]

"Should I kill this guard with my silenced pistol or use the taser gun to make him uncouncious for the rest of the level? So many choices."

You mean, "Should I press the button for lethal takedown cinematic or a nonlethal and receive five times the XP?".

I think they forced too much on that aspect of the game concisely. Like CyberP noted those guys didn't have the experience and years of working towards such a title like the original. Quite frankly I don't expect them to do better because that isn't the focus of today's development. The popamole action and cinematics are what's expected of today's AAA titles and on top of that you get some dialogue choices and another animation. Invisible Wars was just the first taste of what could be expected of those games being developed for console too and that one was fucked up by Harvey Smith himself.

 

[CyberP]

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but there is a gameplay reveal for Mankind Divided in two days (E3).

I've also managed to get my hands on some leaked footage:

Spoiler

 

[CyberP]

I laugh too hard at my own dumb recycled joke . That .gif would be perfection if only the child was crouched at the start, so it would be like she jumps up from cover and pops some moles.

 

[Gnidrologist]

 

[Love]

Where is our Werner Herzog Bad Lieutenant game offering us to pump up on our self-mixed drugs, cooperating with different gangsters to fund our betting habits and solve those vile murder cases from which we have to recover by shaking down innocent broads in clubs? WHERE?

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The only reason I want to play this game is to see the possibility of joining UNATCO, blowing up everything and then blame NSF.

I hereby dedicate my life to my beloved corporation.

 

[Infinitron]

Right, time to get this thread back on topic:

 

[Parsifarka]

omg, it's so rpg

 

[undecaf]

I had reasonable amount of fun with HR (not enough to play it through twice though - lost interest in the second round during the Rihanna battle), but this so far looks pretty lukewarm to me.

 

[CyberP]

Still hardly anything to go off of really, but looks like same old except no excessive piss filter...incline I guess?

 

[LESS T_T]

We may see real gameplay footage: https://twitter.com/DeusEx/status/610882751307325440

Liked our trailer? We'll have more gameplay for you on liveshows! Check out the schedule: https://www.deusex.com/news/e3-livestream-schedule…

Tuesday June 16

10:00AM PST - Square Enix Press Conference
12:25PM PST - IGN
1:45PM PST - Gamespot
2:30PM PST - Twitch
5:00PM PST - PC Gamer

Wednesday June 17th

10:00AM PST - SE Presents
11:30AM PST - Sony
4:30PM PST - GameTrailers

 

[theSavant]

Looks like DX:HR. Where's the difference? And where are the aliens? Mass Effect 4 - I'm coming...

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

The video I posted (Remove UNATCO) has more incline than this.

 

[praetor]

DX:HR was made to be easy -- easy combat, no difficult decisions to be made, no heavy lifting to tease out the philosophical underpinnings of the game. Combat in DX1 was reasonably difficult the first time through, but it had the flaws inherent in the Unreal engine. Put DX1 one on the hardest difficulty, then DX:HR on the hardest difficulty, and compare them. Then try to make this argument.

lolwut

i replayed DX1 on realistic back when the derper's cut of DXHR came out (kinda buggy, but at least it lets you "skip" the combat for the bosses and there's that whole DLC level integrated in it that's pretty cool), and it's a fucking joke. as an FPS judged by shooting/enemies/difficulty alone it would be one of the worst shooters out there. it's a seriously fucking awful shooter. DX1's strengths lie elsewhere. DXHR is at least competent and shooting guns at least feels nice. if it didn't have that stupid ending, the even more stupid level design because of the "segregated" "stealth corridors" and a more balanced XP gain, it would've been just as good as DX1. but as a pure shooter, there's seriously no contest. EDIT: oh, and let's not even mention the ubercheesiness of the instakill lightsaber. once you get that, it's pretty much game over for your enemies. at least typhoon uses ammo...

 

[jaybirdy]

Sure, DX1 is an awful shooter and HR does have more satisfying gunplay, but that still doesn't make the latter a good shooter either. HR is one of the worst cases of popamole shooting mechanics as they are necessary for every single combat scenario. Naturally, popamole shooting is fucking boring because all you do is hide behind cover and wait for the enemies to pop their stupid heads out--I don't understand how Dorito's fans can tolerate this mechanic. While DX1's shooting is extremely unpolished and rickety, at least you're not staring at JC looking cool and hiding behind a wall like a pussy for the majority of firefights.

HR's level design is really far behind Dishonored, which was in turn really far behind DX1. It's as you say, it's segregated into discrete, obvious, and linear paths. For almost every scenario, there's the front entry firefight, the back entry stealth corridor plus complementary hacking minigame, and the air duct. Instead of building huge, open, organic levels that can be tackled in a multitude of ways ala DX1 and Thief, it was always limited to a few choices. Level design, options, and how your abilities tie into all that was what made DX1 great, and HR falls short.

 

[praetor]

Sure, DX1 is an awful shooter and HR does have more satisfying gunplay, but that still doesn't make the latter a good shooter either. HR is one of the worst cases of popamole shooting mechanics as they are necessary for every single combat scenario

lies. the first thing i did when i played HR (like many other codexers here) was to unbind the popamole button. it's more than perfectly playable that way and turns into a relatively enjoyable modern non-popamole shooter.