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Demise: Ascension $6 sale on GamersGate (excellent grid-based dungeon crawler)

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
Yeah, if there's one negative it's how Decklin operates. I can't fault the guy for the work he's put into the expansion but he's definitely lacking in other areas. The websites are straight out of 2001 and it's all very confusing if you don't know what you're looking for. He releases frequent patches for Ascension but they're only on the My Demise page which you could easily miss out on since it's rarely (if ever) announced on the website. But it's pretty remarkable that the game is supported still, and had an official expansion released 12 years after it was released and is patched on a regular basis.

Other than that, yeah, it's a very cool exploration game. Massive dungeon (I believe the largest in the genre by a large margin, and probably even was before the expansion), lots of secrets, multi-floor staircases, hidden doors, etc. The lower floors get very nasty and pretty challenging. The combat is definitely not a high point since it's largely automatic other than spell casting, but it works.

Apparently Mordor, the prequel, was added to this bundle as well, which is a decent and similar old game if you like Demise. It was designed for Windows 3.1 and won't work without running it in a Windows emulator, though.
 

turrican

Educated
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Messages
34
Location
Commodore HQ
Yeah, if there's one negative it's how Decklin operates. I can't fault the guy for the work he's put into the expansion but he's definitely lacking in other areas. The websites are straight out of 2001 and it's all very confusing if you don't know what you're looking for. He releases frequent patches for Ascension but they're only on the My Demise page which you could easily miss out on since it's rarely (if ever) announced on the website. But it's pretty remarkable that the game is supported still, and had an official expansion released 12 years after it was released and is patched on a regular basis.

Bought the bundle, I think I can trust someone whose avatar picture is Arturius. The Demise website looks like an old forgotten geocities relict, I think it fits the game perfectly.

How does dying work in this game? The introduction video on youtube from the developer shows how he gets killed and then is just auto-resurrected in town. Do you drop all items a la Diablo on the corpse? Or does the game give some stat penalty for being resurrected?
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
If your whole partiy dies, your corpses drop with all of your equipment in the room you died ala Diablo. You have to either go rescue your corpse with another character/party or you can pay for a "rescue team" to retrieve your corpse which usually takes weeks/months of in-game time, aging your character. After getting the corpse back you have to have it resurrected. At first when you're in the newbie guild, they'll pay the resurrection fee for you but after that you have to pay for it yourself. This sometimes reduces stats, but not always, and there are tomes that drop from monsters that permanently increase stats, so it's not a total game ruiner if you lose stats.
 

udm

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,764
Make the Codex Great Again!
Also the gold penalty can get pretty brutal when you die at higher levels. This is quite the punishing game, as besides the gold penalty when you die, there are other ways that the game penalizes you if you don't know what you're doing: for example, if you forget to change alignment on a stat potion or tome to suit yours, you lose stats permanently rather than gain them; also, never ever trust a teleporter (Stabwound probably knows what I'm talking about ;) ).
 

Outmind

Augur
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
211
Finally, a chance to get Demise at a decent price. I remember when i used to play the beta of mordor 2 ((which became infinite worlds, which in turn became demise) back in '99 I believe. I've had some great times with that game, and would like to purchase ascension.

However, i have a problem.

Unfortunately, Paypal is being a dick about handling monetary transactions from my balance due to the fact that i do not live in the US. Basically, it won't let me charge my balance, and goes straight to my credit card. Since i don't have any cash on the cc, but do have enough on my balance, i am asking for a favor.
So, i would like to send the $6 via paypal to a kind kodexer who would then buy the bundle on Gamersgate and gift it to me. Since i obviously don't want to get scammed, please offer your help only if your account is 3 + months old.
 

udm

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,764
Make the Codex Great Again!
Something like that. When you attack, the enemy also attacks. Certain weapons that have a faster rate of attack will let you attack more than once per attack turn. This means you cannot hit the enemy and dart away from its reach e.g. Anvil of Dawn. However, when not in attack mode (but still in the presence of enemies), you can run away at the speed of light to avoid combat.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,286
Location
Ingrija
I get graphic troubles with Ascension. Basically, at any given time half of the textures are missing (and that's the same wall textures, just visible from one angle/distance and black at another). Never had such issues in the original Demise (but then again, that was several generations of OSes, directxes, GPUs and drivers ago).

Moreover, the OGL renderer is broken and causes all kinds of errors (the devs themselves admit it doesn't work... so why the fuck that option is not removed?), and the utility to change renderer is missing from the install, so I had to tinker with registry to change the renderer. The only option to play is in software rendering mode, which is all pixelated. WTF?
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Shelled out on the Ascension, enjoyed the original Demise despite tons of bugs and flaws (even after the patches and community fixes). Crawlers gonna crawl.
 

udm

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,764
Make the Codex Great Again!
I get graphic troubles with Ascension. Basically, at any given time half of the textures are missing (and that's the same wall textures, just visible from one angle/distance and black at another). Never had such issues in the original Demise (but then again, that was several generations of OSes, directxes, GPUs and drivers ago).

Moreover, the OGL renderer is broken and causes all kinds of errors (the devs themselves admit it doesn't work... so why the fuck that option is not removed?), and the utility to change renderer is missing from the install, so I had to tinker with registry to change the renderer. The only option to play is in software rendering mode, which is all pixelated. WTF?

I got a similar bug but fixed it. What GPU are you using?
 

kentable

Scholar
Patron
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
159
Location
Hellmouth, CA
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Let me know if you guys get a server up and running. I've been testing the game out on the GOG server for a bit. It looks like you can transfer multiplayer characters across servers, which is pretty cool.

Multi-Headed Cow the aging mechanic was a surprise to me. I started off at 16 years of age, and by the time I got to level 6, I'd already turned 18 lol. I'm not sure what effects aging has on stats though.


The game's basically a first-person roguelike. I don't find combat as fun as other FPP grid-based dungeon crawlers though, like Dungeon Hack, although I get the feeling that I'm only seeing the tip of the iceberg right now with regards to monsters and items.

IIRC, servers have a user limit (16?) Also be aware that they frown on server raiding (buying the last of rare items without attempting to replenish them).

There are no effects until you reach the racial max age at which point the game makes death checks for your geezer. Most veterans run below 30 since Potions of Youth (-1 year, -1 CON) and Blood of Ages (-10 years) show up fairly early (Low teen dungeon level?).

ps Thanks for the heads up Stabwound!
 

Bruticis

Guest
Sovard, Humpy, and myself are trying to get a game going in the CDS. Drop by the CDS if you wish to join/poke/prod/laugh at our attempts.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
How exactly does multiplayer work in this game? I've never played it: can you use existing offline characters on game servers? Does the map/game persist on the server? I know it has an existing multiplayer community (of some small size) so it must be fun on some level.
 

Stabwound

Arcane
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
3,240
I get graphic troubles with Ascension. Basically, at any given time half of the textures are missing (and that's the same wall textures, just visible from one angle/distance and black at another). Never had such issues in the original Demise (but then again, that was several generations of OSes, directxes, GPUs and drivers ago).

Moreover, the OGL renderer is broken and causes all kinds of errors (the devs themselves admit it doesn't work... so why the fuck that option is not removed?), and the utility to change renderer is missing from the install, so I had to tinker with registry to change the renderer. The only option to play is in software rendering mode, which is all pixelated. WTF?
Looks like other people had similar problems and it was remedied by changing video card drivers.

If you have Nvidia card someone reported driver 266.58 worked for them. If ATI, I have no idea, probably just upgrade to the latest ones.
 

udm

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,764
Make the Codex Great Again!
Nope you can't use offline characters.

All encounters are the same for all players, so if one player manages to raid an entire floor before mobs start to respawn (which, in my experience, is impossible), then the other players will not be able to have any encounters until the mobs respawn.

We died in a single hit on our first encounters :smug:

Slimes are the worst of the bunch. They have low payoffs and unbelievably high physical + poison damage. Even my Giant build dies once in a while from a bad slime attack. One alone is manageable if you can react fast enough to run when the going is bad, but more than that and it gets tricky.

One rule of thumb I set for myself is to go back to town when my HP hits 50%. I can't tell when mobs spawn - sometimes you clear out a room, go to the next one, then when you go back, the mobs immediately respawn. It's good to have a buffer of health when returning.
 

mondblut

Arcane
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
22,286
Location
Ingrija
I got a similar bug but fixed it. What GPU are you using?

geforce GTS450.

I've read about drivers, but I really really really don't want to downgrade them. Like, ever, as long as they give me no issues. I hate even upgrading them, but at least that does make sense, as the software of tomorrow may require something the drivers of today don't have. But downgrading? That's nonsense.

Sure, it might be nvidia who is to blame for fucking up their drivers time after time, but I believe a prudent stance for a software developer whose just released (sic!) game is found to be incompatible with the current crop of hardware should be "oh fuck, bloody nvidia, I have to patch it now :(", not "boo fucking hoo, not my problem, get yourself an older PC :smug:".
 

Arpad

Educated
Joined
Jan 27, 2012
Messages
248
Nice finally a less absurd price for Demise. Guess I'll be grinding dungeons for a while and maybe trying multiplayer if it's any good.

Are any other games in that bundle worth a try? Doesn't matter but since they were in the bundle.. I only remember that 3079 seems to be a graphical version of that somewhat clumsy roguelike.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
OK, my Giant lv29 Artisan/lv6 Warrior is just barely exploring lvl3. This game is HUGE. Wow.

I've been looking for this sort of game for a long, long time.
 

visions

Arcane
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
1,801
Location
here
Ok, so I had to be a retard and go out/drinking on three consecutive nights instead of trying the demo (don't like playing games in daylight) and now the deal ended.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Whoa this is getting grindy and really, really confusing. Lvl30 Artisan/Lvl30 Warrior, and now I'm supposed to find and kill a Slave Driver to advance past lvl30 Warrior, who is a unique boss monster that I've already killed for the main quest ??!

I keep having to get back to the town to heal up after every few encounters on lvl5 esp. ants, dreks and spellcasters, but I can cruise lvl1-4 forever and stay full hp. WTF is this balance.

Also the fact I can't just buy expendable healing items in this game really, really bugs me.

I went mixed class just because apparently it's how things are done? But now I'm having serious doubts. Might just restart my Giant with pure Warrior and get Explorer along the way, since Artisan seems not particularly useful for anything except opening chests. (FUCK you spinners!) Or, even better, I'll make a Cleric or something since having to go back a 100000 times to heal up isn't fun.
 

Outmind

Augur
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
211
Whoa this is getting grindy and really, really confusing. Lvl30 Artisan/Lvl30 Warrior, and now I'm supposed to find and kill a Slave Driver to advance past lvl30 Warrior, who is a unique boss monster that I've already killed for the main quest ??!

I keep having to get back to the town to heal up after every few encounters on lvl5 esp. ants, dreks and spellcasters, but I can cruise lvl1-4 forever and stay full hp. WTF is this balance.

Also the fact I can't just buy expendable healing items in this game really, really bugs me.

I went mixed class just because apparently it's how things are done? But now I'm having serious doubts. Might just restart my Giant with pure Warrior and get Explorer along the way, since Artisan seems not particularly useful for anything except opening chests. (FUCK you spinners!) Or, even better, I'll make a Cleric or something since having to go back a 100000 times to heal up isn't fun.

While there is truth to some of what you say (the game is a massive grindfest and it becomes one even more so as you progress), the main reason you are having the trouble you are writing about is that you are a novice to the game. Here are a few tips to help you on your way.

First things first - YOU NEED A PARTY!!! It needn't be big in the start, but having at least two diverse characters going in at the same time is essential. Eventually i managed to buy ascension and started playing from the top. I now have two characters who always travel together - a lvl 15 saris thief who i will dualclass into explorer, and a dwarf warrior who i will dualclass into a cleric. These two characters alone give me immense diversity.

Let's take the most obvious and possibly the most beneficial plus - they both have daggers of stealth, meaning that my party of two gets FOUR HITS PER ROUND, slicing and dicing through pretty much anything lvl 3 can throw at me. The dwarf is a good tank, meaning that i can switch him to the first slot whenever the thief gets low on hp and he can take the damage. The thief on the other hand can easily open 99% of the chests without getting my party teleported, burned, aged etc. Now, imagine if you will, how wonderful they will be once they have 30+ lvls in their 2nd class - the dwarf will be able to restore hp, heal wounds cast spells to dmg the foes, and, most importantly, he will be able to resurrect others in the dungeon. The thief will be adept at mapping the dungeon (when she sees a pit in front of her it will be registered as a pit on the first or second glance, and won't take an eternity like now), moving around the dungeon, both by casting levitate on the party and by porting it around etc. I trust you get my point. Add to this the eventual mage i am going to make, who will charm the monsters they meet... it shall be grand, and more importantly, much easier than soloing the dungeon.

I know there wasn't much chance you could have known this, but the warrior doesn't need to start as an artisan. The artisan's guild is primarily there to help you set up a not-so-squishy caster character until they are lvl 30, as the artisans bestow the most hp, except for the warrior's guild. I won't insist on it, but if you ask me, making a new, pure warrior who you can later dual class into something other than artisan is advisable.

As for the dungeon itself, it gets exponentially harder every 2 odd lvls, so 5 is much harder than 4, 7 much harder than 6 etc. If you are frustrated now, wait till you see your first nostrum, which will stone you with one hit, leaving you to always loose a point of con during the raise.

This is why you need to prepare. The game gradually introduces you to new concepts. While you might have managed to survive on brawn alone till lvl 4, going farther will require some planning, be that as item investment, or making a nother character, which i encourage you to do.

As for your slave driver problem, quest mobs don't disappear from the game when you complete a quest. If he was the end boss of the slave quest chain, he will probably be in the lair again. If he is the same as the slave mashers, but stronger (i don't really remember the tiers any more), you can find him as a random encounter.

Lastly, for now at least, don't underestimate the offensive spell caster. Sorcerers are glass cannons, but well worth it in the long run. For instance, their starter dmg dealing spell affects 2 monsters in 2 groups, a total of four monsters attacked and potentially killed... at lvl 1! Add to that the utility spells you get later on, especially with the wizard, and you have yourself one versatile if fraile asset.

That's it for now. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
 

Rpgsaurus Rex

Guest
Thanks! That's very informative.

I was kinda demoralized that I got everything wrong. However, I've invested so much time into that lvl30 Art/lvl 30 War Giant that I decided to persevere, maybe hoping things will improve... and they did!

I'm lvl30 Art/lvl 60 War/lvl 10 Exp at the moment, and being able to take out almost anything at up to DL8 with very little risk to myself, except Magicians (I haven't ventured to DL9 yet, since there's a lot to explore at 7 and 8 still). Still playing solo. I've maxed out my "natural" Dex/Str/Con with tomes/potions by now (+ wearing Guildmaster's crest), Atk/Def are ~180/200 (3 swings) and 240 hit points. My two biggest problems were healing and mass monsters. The "healing" problem sorta started solving itself as armor went up "green stones" started dropping 24/7 so walking back isn't an issue => monsters can barely hit me now and I find healing arts a lot more often. I got this lvl100 item with lots of healing charges, meaning the healing problem should disappear completely by that time.

The second problem - mass monster rooms - is still a problem, especially with tougher groups like Dwarves. It's not a big deal since such rooms are easily avoided (I've been running with that invis cloak). Yeah, also my giant's low magic resist is very annoying, though potions/seer do help.

I don't care much about draining since I have a big suprlus of tomes/potions should my Con drop. The stoning monsters haven't been a problem either, since they all die in 1 hit (I haven't been stoned once, and I liiterally took 0 precautions - guess my 25% natural resist was sufficient...). Things will probably get a lot trickier deep down as monsters will get super-strong elemental/mind attacks - I am hoping to get good items with resists, or failing that I'll have to invest a lot into Explorer, I guess, though that will be tedious.

The game just gets more and more addicting. Probably my best $6 dollar investment for a game, ever...

PS: yeah, and Spinners are still extremely annoying. Those 10 levels in Explorer improve things only by a tiny bit, it really seems I'll need more... if only all my equipment wasn't Class Restricted! Damn, running around naked is annoying.

PPS: I'm also dreading that lvl75 warrior quest. Apparently I'll need to find a super rare armor that drops of low lvl mobs... how the hell I'm supposed to do that without days/weeks of grind...
 

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