[deleted]

[The Game Analists]

[deleted]

 

[Daemongar]

Eh, Baldur's Gate was good as a D&D game and as much as I love BG and D&D, there isn't much for the player to do upon level up. I like systems that give limited/fixed points to add but too many abilities to add them to.

Couple favorites of mine
Arcanum was good: lots of skills, limited points, maybe too many levels, but allowed for some hard decisions early on.
Dragon Wars was good: limited points, but with a party of 4 you could cover everything. Similar to Wasteland.
D&D 3rd ed and above: lots of choices on level up. Not bad.

Good systems
Fallout 1 & 2 were good, limited points allowing for different playthroughs. INT was op, though.
D&D 1st and 2nd edition: The standard. Level up, a few minor choices. Very direct, but leveling is definitely something to look forward to, because it changes so many things.
Wizardry 7 was good, but maybe Wizardry 8 was better: Wiz 7 had a great system but leveling up gets a little too random for me. I like Wiz 8 with fixed points each level, and the option to switch classes.


Bad systems
Fallout 3 was bad. Could have damn near top score in everything by the time the game ended. Too many points, and INT just adds more
Ultima 7. Nobody cares what level you are, semi meaningless but it does give you training points. They could have dropped levels altogether. Doesn't make Ultima 7 bad, though.
Skyrim. I don't even want to talk about it.

 

[Excidium II]

Favourite:
buy whatever shit with xp.

Least favourite:
fixed stat increments.

 

[Beastro]

A decent rate of levelling, but not spammed in the your face to the point of uselessness.

Level should give you a feel of power growth, not be so diluted to you can't tell one from the previous few.

 

[Lady_Error]

Wizardry 7 was good, but maybe Wizardry 8 was better: Wiz 7 had a great system but leveling up gets a little too random for me. I like Wiz 8 with fixed points each level, and the option to switch classes.

You can switch classes in Wizardry 7 too, at any time, as long as you meet the minimum requirements of that class.

I didn't mind the randomness of which stats go up when leveling up. What I don't like are games like Elminage Gothic where the stats can actually go down on leveling up. That's too much randomness for me.

 

[flabbyjack]

I like picking from a pool of perks. Most games have them, but don't use them well... There should be a variety of different perks each complimenting a different play-style.

 

[Daemongar]

You can switch classes in Wizardry 7 too, at any time, as long as you meet the minimum requirements of that class.

I didn't mind the randomness of which stats go up when leveling up.

Well, that randomness kind of made a cheater out of me, reloading until I got something when possible. I didn't like it, but there was such a huge difference between leveling up and getting 4 ability increases and getting nothing. I would usually settle for at least one, but not getting anything felt like a gyp.

Favourite:
buy whatever shit with xp.

Forgot how much I liked SS2 and Deus Ex leveling systems. Good point.

 

[Hobo Elf]

My favorite level ups are the ones that let me make my character more diverse and am able to allocate my points however I see fit.

My least favorite level ups are when my enemies level up with me and make the whole process pointless.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Favorite: status point + skills/perks point. Available skills/perks should be varied but not meaningless (+1/1.5/2% to your xxx). Overall points available should be enough to make a powerful, specialized character but no more.

Least favorite: random status increment, meaningless skills/perks choices, level scaling by enemies (a bit scaling is fine, but "everybody is demigod" kind of scaling is not)

 

[Xathrodox86]

Favorite: buy whatever I can, when I can.

Least favorite: when the game does it for me.

 

[eric__s]

Completely random Wizardry-style stat gains and losses are my favorite. It works well for Wizardry because the maximum for any stat was 18 and stats would tend to average towards 16; it was never a huge loss if you lost a few stat points because the rebound was never that far.

There was a game called Shining Force on the Sega Genesis that had random stat gains too. I never completely understood what determined stat growth; usually characters would gain 2 or 3 points, but occasionally a stat would jump up by 14 or something ludicrous, and they would be far and away the best character for three or four levels. As far as I could tell it was completely random, too. Characters had different stats and growths on different playthroughs.

I liked the Realms of Arkania system, where you had two sets of stats - positive and negative. On each level, you could always increase one of your positive stats like strength or intuition, and you had a chance to decrease one of your negative stats like acrophobia or avarice. The lower a negative stat, the lower chance you had to decrease it. Skills worked similarly, you could distribute points to skills, but the higher a skill, the less of a chance you had of increasing it.

I guess, on looking at all of these games, I like an element of chance or randomness in my character growth. Maybe that's why I like Battle Brothers so much.

 

[Invictus]

By far my favorite leveling system ever didnt have leveling per se; Darklands used skill leveling similar to the TES games where You got better by doing, and since the game had no level scaling it was very nicely balanced
Wiz 7 & 8 had similar skill based systems but also leveling so you got better by doing, but specifically in Wiz 8 you could grind your skills without leveling up and build your chars up

 

[laclongquan]

Random increase of points is the most idiotic method, since it mean I will save reload until got the optimal thing~ Fuck the dice!

levelup across the board is second most, though more like bad than idiotic. It feels impersonal.

So yeah, got a number of skill point to invest, and/or some perk to differentiate your char.

Although, Parasite Eve2 make a very nice buy spell with xp scheme. And it's good because levelup restore your MP, so with that scarce resource of higher difficulty, it's a good thing. I mostly delay buying spells until I need that restoration, or when it can not be helped.

 

[Prime Junta]

I dig systems that keep me working towards things, and keep me hungry. Arcanum's is rad when playing a technomancer. There was always something I wanted to improve, and leveling up always/usually made a tangible difference to what I could do -- new gadgets, possibility to wield new weapons, significant jumps in combat effectiveness, and so on.

 

[DavidBVal]

Best for me was WFRP: no levels. Careers that you could switch to, and in each you could spend your XP on improving certain stats/skills. Each career had exits to other careers. Saying this from memory, but I think there was over a hundred careers in the rulebook.

However, a numeric "level" has become so "standard" nowadays, that it's very difficult to conceive a system without it, especially in fantasy and action-oriented games. Even I, which admire other systems, fell for it in my latest rules design.

 

[bloodlover]

Since Arcanum and Fallout were already mentioned, I'll also say Morrowind and the first two Gothic games. Yes Morrowind had the stupid skill/stat leveling up but in all fairness nobody forced the player to do that. What I like about these games is the difference that gaining attributes and skills make. It is a visible growth for the player when he sees the difference of getting raped by wolfs at the start of the game and actually being able to fight them on equal terms once he has a few levels ahead. Same goes for Morrowind with the chance to hit and dmg.

Least fav. I'd say would be F3 where the perks and skills were so many that most of them felt irrelevant. The game was easy anyway so whatever you got when leveling up was just some extra meaningless stat.

D&D progression is interesting especially for casters that get extra spells/day or a class getting a certain feat at a certain level. I'd say a wizard enjoys more his spell slot than the fighter does his +1 BAB. Or maybe that's just me playing mostly spellcasters in games.

 

[Scroo]

I like it when each level feels like it really makes my characters more powerful. And I need to distribute points for stats and skills myself, Wizardry 8 rules here.

 

[DavidBVal]

D&D progression is interesting especially for casters that get extra spells/day or a class getting a certain feat at a certain level. I'd say a wizard enjoys more his spell slot than the fighter does his +1 BAB. Or maybe that's just me playing mostly spellcasters in games.

The fighter at leasts gains feats all the time. A Paladin spends three levels to see one additional cure disease/week. Oh, and the spells that the cleric stopped casting 7 levels ago.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

Preferably I'd like as little change to happen on level up without my consent as it can. That means: No bonus hp/damage/chance to hit bullshit, and that goes for enemies too.
Arcanum and the early Fallout games did leveling the best imo, New Vegas with Jsawyer.esp followed shortly after. Fallout 3's was definitely the worst in the series, and awful in general, Perks to raise things that get easily maxed, tons of useless investments, the ability to raise a special 10 times, then another one to raise them all to 9 anyway. Too many skills, perk every level, etc.

All in all though, the absolute worst levelling system I've ever experienced was Oblivion, anyone who defends the meta gamey feel of that terribad system hates RPGs and fun. Awful, terrible, idiotic. You can run around in circles or jump in place while casting a spell to level, and it isn't dynamic at all, so the grind is pretty much encouraged. That's not even the worst of it though, the level scaling, the game is actually easier if you never level. Then the moronic levelling system, which so easily could have been good. (Make all skills count towards leveling a la skyrim, and then offer the stat increments based off of what you used same as it did, sans the meta game shit needed to ideally keep up with the stupid level scaled world. Would have been good for what it is.)

When it comes to new titles, Shadowrun's was okay, Pillars of eternity had potential but was lacking to me, not because of the leveling itself, which didn't force much on you and also gave options, but mostly because the options weren't interesting to me. I like an RPG system that makes it hard to choose based on the sheer number of attractive choices, where you can't wait to level to pick on of the perks/skills/abilities. PoE was not that game for me, i had more trouble trying to work up the will to choose which insignificant increment was the least useless. Divinity Original: Sin on the other hand, was that game. If it weren't for the awful chance to hit scaling, mid game respec, and retarded late game hp bloat, it'd be one of my favorite. Unlike PoE there was always something cooler that I wished I could get, and at the end only just enough points to go around to get some. Which would have made for unique playthroughs with good non-story c&c, but being able to respec before any fight killed it.

 

[CryptRat]

 

[Ash_Firelord]

I like the concept of having to pay teachers to increase your skills. Morrowind did this ok - though I dislike the "run a lot so you are good at running" mechanic that tagged along for the ride.

 

[DavidBVal]

though I dislike the "run a lot so you are good at running" mechanic that tagged along for the ride.

It was actually a pretty good idea -and a perfect example on how good ideas often suck when applied to real playing-

 

[CryptRat]

I like if we can add points to many skills, and I prefer when I have to make choices and can't do everything : RoA, Arcanum, Dragon Wars.
About Morrowind, I don't mind that your skills upgrade while practicing, what I don't like is its association with a classless system. I prefer Heroine's quest where some skills/spells will be unavailable to you : you also feel like specializing when using skills, but the difference is that you don't feel like you're a god.

About learning new skills/spells, I also like the system of Bard's Tale, FF5 or FFTactics where you basically learn new skills/spells when levelling-up in a class but unlike many games you will change classes several times.

 

[laclongquan]

That increase-by-use feature should have a level cap, which Silent Storm, Silent Storm Sentinels, and Hammer Sickle do. Although, the three game got class, so I dont compare them with Morrowind.

Increase-by-use always should have level cap and stat cap. There should be no reason a clumsy char can max athletic skill, for example.

 

[Reinhardt]

I like when player first need to find trainers for character upgrades.