KickStarter Darkest Dungeon Pre-Release Thread

[Doctor Sbaitso]

So I guess rogue-likes or anything procedurally generated are the best sort of games to back for kickstarter projects. I've been playing various RL for decades and look forward to updates rather than worry about spoiling anything.

How does that apply to this? If favourably I'll pick up sooner than later.

 

[granit]

Pick it up now you dang ol cheapass hobos.

 

[Gozma]

It's not really a roguelike and doesn't have much roguelike allure, and that is not anti-roguelite snobbery. It's not loseable, you accumulate permanent strategic power-ups, you can mostly handpick your equipment, units and powers. There's perma-death for your individual units a la X-Com, but there's nothing irreplaceable about them (and unlike X-Com there's no time pressure because it's unloseable, so it's not even really a strategic setback). The stuff that is procedural is generally pretty trivial (e.g. dungeons) besides managing various types of attrition (which is the meat of the game).

 

[Gord]

It's hard to think about individual balance things because I feel like they need to do a major combat overhaul. Like, almost every buff is worthless. They have buffs that do like <50% extra damage, and last 2 turns after you use it. You know what does more damage than that buff and two attacks? Three attacks. Elementary fuckups like that, is that evidence they don't know what they're doing or evidence that they haven't really started on combat and major changes are still gonna happen?

I pretty much agree with this, yeah. Combat buffs essentially only make sense on 2 characters - backrow Jester and Plague Doctor on a boss fight, because PD's damage output is lower than, say, buffing a Hellion or a Bounty Hunter with Vapors. Otherwise, it's more down to selecting what skill you'll use to kill stuff.

Also worth noting is that enemy parties don't really buff or heal.

Playing around a bit with different skills on my chars that currently seems true for other things, as well:
Debuffs fail much more often than I'd expect them, but when they work, the effect is negligible.
Healing skills on primary damage dealers seem nonsense, since the effect is so small that attacking to end the fight quicker is the better solution in almost all of the cases (maybe with the exception that you stunlock the last enemy).

The game definitely needs some balancing passes. If I understood them right, they wanted to focus on bugs, esp. crashes and will go for content and balance later.
Since they project 6 months in EA, I'd say they have plenty of time, at least.

Something else: did the game get more difficulty in the last 2 or so days, or am I just experiencing a streak of bad luck?
I was doing quite well and having a (too, admittedly) smooth ride but since sunday or so I get critted much more often and had to abandon several runs due to risk of my party getting wiped.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Ah I thought it was truly RL. I guess I will wait a bit then.

 

[Absalom]

Balance issues and RNG shenagians dove tail perfectly. I'll use actually good chars and breeze through, but I try to use the weaker ones (Grave Robba, Plague Docta, Occultist etc) on a lvl-1 short dungeon to level up and get immediately gang-raped with ambush after ambush. No other deaths in my game so far but 5 grave robbers and 2 plague doctors.

At this point I'm wondering if certain char types are more susceptible to ambushes.

 

[Metro]

http://youtu.be/sTnf0jU-tn0?t=8m37s

 

[Gozma]

They put out a patch that does a bunch of minor tweaks to abilities and shit, confirmed for not going to do a major overhaul of combat that changes everything, game confirmed to be bad, confirmed disappointed, confirmed don't d1p ever

 

[Jaesun]

They put out a patch that does a bunch of minor tweaks to abilities and shit, confirmed for not going to do a major overhaul of combat that changes everything, game confirmed to be bad, confirmed disappointed, confirmed don't d1p ever

So..... a game that is still a beta must each and every single time put out a major overhaul patch?

 

[Gozma]

No, but it's like if they were working on a major overhaul they wouldn't tweak the current system. It's like finding a dude you want to paint a house green working on touching up the old orange paint job

 

[Invictus]

To be honest if this was a "final" release I would be well pleased with my investment, other than a few quirks the game is stable and seems well balanced. I dont agree with healing skills beign useless on Frontline chars like the Crusader or Leper since they can help in a pinch is your primary healer has been hit by an unlucky crit and you need to heal them before the enemy attacks again. That seems to me more of a design feature to customize skillz to your playstyle other than a straight up all out attack party setup instead of trying DPS chars like the plague doctor or multi hit specialists like thehellion or highwayman

 

[Lhynn]

Frontline heals are mostly useful to get you out of deaths doors, because as long as you have 1 point of life you wont die on the next attack. They should be stronger tho, considering that they are self heals and that you are not doing damage to cast it, as a frontliner thats a big deal.

 

[Gozma]

Yeah it's still ok as a one quick playthrough game. I had high hopes for something like an FTL tho, and it had the potential. This feels a lot like the new XCOM did to me as it came out; I got into it because it had the elements to make a great game but they fumbled lots of key decisions to end up with a, "Well, I guess I got my money's worth" kind of verdict. Maybe someone will Long War this at some point to get the potential to come through.

 

[Gord]

Seems the Hellion got nerfed hard in the latest update...

 

[Angthoron]

Seems the Hellion got nerfed hard in the latest update...

FFFF- What did they do.

 

[Zombra]

Gozma
Why would they completely change the combat system? It's been pretty clear what approach they were going to take from the get-go. Just curious, what would you change about it? Seems to me it's just down to buffing and nerfing to work out the kinks. Note that I haven't played it at all; I've just been reading the thread and most people seem to enjoy it.

 

[Gord]

Hellion got a debuff now when using breakthrough. Haven't played yet, but apparently pretty serious one. Considering that Breakthrough was already at reduced damage, it probably went a bit too far, judging by the reactions on the forums.
Some buffs to other heroes however, plus something against stunlock/heal combo.

Changelog:

Spoiler

This is the first patch to have some focused gameplay changes, but it will not be the last! Remember that the game is in Early Access, and we'll be experimenting with mechanics and balance for the foreseeable future. Strap in and come along for the ride!

These changes are based upon consistent feedback and observed results from the game's first week and a half of play:

• Champion (L5) Monsters: increased difficulty across the board.
• Grave Robber needed a little somethin': increased Speed, added stacking Accuracy buffs for Thrown Dagger and Poison Dart
• Hellion is an absolute wrecking machine. This is intentional, but she still needed dialed down a tiny bit: Reduced starting HP, restricted Iron Swan to position 1 only, added Exhaust to Breakthru and slightly reduced crit, but increased dmg buff of Bleed Out
• Plague Doctor: Increased Blight and Disease Resistance, increased Blight damage of Noxious Blast and Plague Grenade, Added a small heal to Battlefield Medicine. Now she's the hero we deserve, not just the hero we need.
• Ghoul, Swinetaur, Unclean Giant: increased HP to make them even a little more menacing.
• Gargoyles: increased dodge, reduced dmg, increased crit. Focus up your Accuracy to hit these beasts!
• Bone Arbalist: reduced Bayonet Jab crit. Should be less threatening at the front.
• Heroes don't like it when you prolong combat unnecessarily
• Added 'Clear Head' moderate Stun Resistance buff to heroes and monsters after clearing an existing stun. Stacks for consecutive stuns.
• No heroes are truly immortal

Other fixes and changes:

• Fixed crash at end of dungeon raid caused by incompatible quirks
• Added threshold for health bar display based on actor scale
• Improved backup save file handling
• Fixed purge result announcement

 

[Gozma]

Zombra

You do the exact same shit over and over without variation. Almost all classes have two or three skills you'd ever bother to use (out of I think 8?) and the cases where you use one vs. the others are always perfect no-brainers. Enemy groups do nothing but attack - they don't heal each other, buff, anything. There's no real roguelikey variability to your classes or skills (quirks are very marginal) so there's not even the fun of making do. Damage is dialed up too high both ways later on, and the previously limited choices get even more constrained, mostly to spamming crits. Bleah.

 

[Zombra]

Is the move really called "Breakthru" in game? What is this, an X-Men comic from 1963?

Gozma Interesting take, thanks. What would make it more dynamic, in your opinion?
Anyone care to rebut?

 

[Invictus]

You have to be seriously jaded and bitter to hate on this game; it is exactly what it was pitched on the KS as the combat was never mean to be JA
It is still in early release and it shows on some balancíng issues but overall it is a damn charming and fun game that I have to tear myself away from playing on my work laptop to get things done. I wish they could expand the roster a bit more (especialy with the upcoming 5 new chars) and maybe adding healing and buffs to enemies would make it more deep and challenging but it doesnt look likely since it certainly sounds like these final 6 months will be just for including the last áreas (including DD itself) the new classes and balancíng things up for release

 

[Gozma]

What would make it more dynamic, in your opinion?

Off the top of my head: Give enemies some intentional AI synergy and skills, limit your recruits strictly to, say, 3 initial skills, maybe with one more random unlock later on or something, put in X-Com or FTL style strategic loss conditions, complete rebalance of all fights with a target towards making battles take ~4 rounds (up from 1-3); and dungeons take about 10 minutes for shorts to maybe 20 minutes for long (so that would probably mean making fights a lot less common). Then attrition tuning.

 

[Lhynn]

Less fights, more exploration. imagine CYOA elements in the dungeons solvable by using your teams skills.

The guild is a building that hurts the game, Asylum should have the churchs functions, quirks should not be removable, ever.

 

[Angthoron]

I've stopped playing the game until the bugs and balance issues get sorted but I am still being entertained. The /vg/ general has folks writing fan fiction/art involving the grave robber, vestal, plague doctor, hellion, and the female cultists.

Is this as fucked up as I suspect?

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

You do the exact same shit over and over without variation.

This is true, on all fronts. More gameplay variation would be nice.

Almost all classes have two or three skills you'd ever bother to use (out of I think 8?)

7 skills, not 8. Finding this to be true for most classes, not all, and depends a little on party composition. If the player was limited to unlocking a new ability every two character levels, it would make it a little trickier to get the desired skill setups.

Enemy groups do nothing but attack - they don't heal each other, buff, anything.

This is true and really noticeable in the higher level dungeons where I was expecting more tactical nastiness from enemies to counter increased accuracy of characters from upgrading their skills. High level dungeons have been too easy. The enemies do mark and debuffs though, but it still doesn't increase challenge much. If we had to 'Deathblow' enemies that would possibly make things a bit more interesting and give enemies a reason to cast healing spells.

There's no real roguelikey variability to your classes or skills (quirks are very marginal) so there's not even the fun of making do. Damage is dialed up too high both ways later on, and the previously limited choices get even more constrained, mostly to spamming crits. Bleah.

Have to agree, crits are currently where it's at. The game becomes all about taking out one enemy at a time, generally starting with enemies that have stress inducing abilities or low hp (fewer enemies means fewer attacks against the party and less chance of the enemy landing critical hits). Challenge could easily be increased by slightly nerfing critical percentages of skills and items. This would make managing stress more difficult, and one-hitting enemies less likely.

Lower levels seem fine and challenging still because of lower accuracy and critical percentage.

The levels (dungeons) could do with more road block type interactions that force the player to interact with objects to increase challenge, rather than making most of them optional.

Suffice it to say there's a lot they could do with DD, a lot of directions they could take the gameplay in. I hope they do, because I still think the base game they've created is decent. My biggest issue is that it's ultimately too easy.

I'm more or less done with the game for now. Managed to clock up about 80 very fun hours.

 

[toro]

This game is really addictive.

Also I like the fact that a party wipe is not the end as it usually happens in rogues. Creating suicide squads count as exploitation or not?