D&D5e is coming.

[Grunker]

Most brick and mortar gaming stores earn most of their money from selling Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic the Gathering and Warhammer, so I don't think the demise of D&D will hurt them that much. Of course it will hurt them, but the extend is less than you might think.

And I doubt they'll go subscription only. That would be the surefire way to ensure they don't sell any product of at all - WotC knows that much of the interest for their product is created at the stores when it comes to new customers.

 

[octavius]

POR had hardly anything to choose from; YET it's regarded as one of the best GoldBox games because of the way everything was built around utilising the limited options in such a way that almost everything was useful in the right situation.

Except the weapons list which consisted of 90% different anti-cavalry weapons in a game without cavalry...

 

[SkyrimSucks]

Most brick and mortar gaming stores earn most of their money from selling Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic the Gathering and Warhammer, so I don't think the demise of D&D will hurt them that much. Of course it will hurt them, but the extend is less than you might think.

And I doubt they'll go subscription only. That would be the surefire way to ensure they don't sell any product of at all - WotC knows that much of the interest for their product is created at the stores when it comes to new customers.

It's rumored that WOTC makes quite a bit of money from DDI. So, it would make sense if they went full derp and only used that.

 

[SkyrimSucks]

Most brick and mortar gaming stores earn most of their money from selling Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic the Gathering and Warhammer, so I don't think the demise of D&D will hurt them that much. Of course it will hurt them, but the extend is less than you might think.

And I doubt they'll go subscription only. That would be the surefire way to ensure they don't sell any product of at all - WotC knows that much of the interest for their product is created at the stores when it comes to new customers.

It's rumored that WOTC makes quite a bit of money from DDI. So, it would make sense if they went full derp and only used that.

 

[Daemongar]

Also, anyone that D&D 3.0 is shit, has certanly lost his marbles. In comparison to what, I ask? D&D 1st, 2nd editions? You know what the fuck you are talking about?

Nobody said 3.0 was shit, and 3.0 has *plenty* of problems. The lifespan of 2nd was 13+ years, what was the shelf life of 3.0? 3 years? The problems with 1st/2nd edition were that they were beaten to death, and were the foundation for most pnp/crpgs, and their derivatives. Familiarity breeds contempt and all that.

 

[octavius]

What happens with old module and supplement books with the release of a new edition? Does it become obsolete? I guess yes, so the gamers have to to buy all new sets of books.

 

[waywardOne]

They're following the Games Workshit model of releasing new editions every 3-5 years, each one fixing old problems while introducing new ones. Like with WHF & 40k, if you're happy with an existing version, it's unlikely you'll be attracted to Teh Nu Shit. 5th won't be an improved 3.5.

And since when did MOAR CUSTOMIZATION equal BETTAR RPG? Fucking aspie faggot.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Lot of chatter in this thread from Grunker. To bad he is too young and drunk to realize that AD&D 2nd edition is where it's at.

I need to find an online D&D group. Maybe through skype or something. It's been too fucking long.

 

[Mastermind]

And since when did MOAR CUSTOMIZATION equal BETTAR RPG? Fucking aspie faggot.

Since customization is what makes a game an rpg to begin with? Stupid motherfucker.

 

[Grunker]

Lot of chatter in this thread from Grunker. To bad he is too young and drunk to realize that AD&D 2nd edition is where it's at.

I'm willing ta bet yer geezer arse that I've played more AD&D than you have. So fuck your shit and back it up with arguments, ol' man.

 

[Grunker]

And since when did MOAR CUSTOMIZATION equal BETTAR RPG? Fucking aspie faggot.

Go play 1st edition you twat. More customization doesn't equal better RPG (plenty of brilliant but simple RPG systems), but next to no customization, shit mechanics, lack of a proper, actual "system" as well as counter-intuitive logic for the hell of it sure as hell fucking does.

An RPG system has one of two goals (or a mixture of these): To get out of the way and be unnoticable (in games where the system needs to handle required rules for the game to function, but are not in focus) or to be the center of attention (in games where playing the rules is the focal point - tactical dungeon crawling, for instance). Most systems fall somewhere in between.

AD&D does both of these horribly - it gets in the way when you don't need it to because of completely unnecessary complexity, and it's not very fun to play with when you have to because the complexity adds very little variety and customization. Basically, AD&D is a textbook examples of worst of both worlds.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Grunker there is a reason Lord Paco let Sarevok kill Feng-Grunker's candy ass.

 

[Grunker]

Grunker there is a reason Lord Paco let Sarevok kill Feng-Grunker's candy ass.

And that reason is sweet, sweet butthurt, evidently

 

[oldmanpaco]

ButtHurt!!! It's Everywhere!!!!!!

 

[MisterStone]

Bros I can't lie here, I haven't played PnP Dungeons and Dragons since 1st ed (I started playing Rolemaster, WORST FUCKING RPG EVER BTW and did not get back into DnD sadly), but the stuff I heard about 4e really did sound terrible. Just wondering, was there really a lot of backlash against 4e? I'd like to believe this is the case and that goodness triumphs over tardedness, but it's hard to believe without some assurance from you bros...

 

[PorkaMorka]

They've really started pushing these editions out far too quickly for my taste.

Anyway, 3rd edition is (in theory) good for computer games, but I'm not really convinced it's so great for table top.

Computer RPGs are incapable of doing anything but combat and character building very well, so it might as well be as detailed and in depth as possible, to provide the game with some substance.

But there is a lot more freedom in P&P and that allows for far more enjoyable "adventure" elements. My favorite aspect of P&P was the creative problem solving (not solving "puzzles", but figuring out how to get out of sticky situations). And without the computer to resolve combat, detailed combat can be pretty time consuming.

When it comes to P&P I can definitely see the advantage of a quick, minimalist, free form combat system over a 3 hour five foot step fest with minatures.

Also, CRPGs are you against the computer. Part of the fun is spending two hours obsessively tweaking each character for maximum power. But P&P is a cooperative venture between multiple people. I had fun spending weeks researching my build in third edition, but it may not have been that beneficial to the game experience as a whole for my uber cleric to be so much more powerful than my friend's generic fighter. Most people aren't going to be that obsessive about their build in a cooperative game but nobody likes to be overshadowed.

 

[Grunker]

Depends on how you define 'backlash'. I worked in a shop when it was released, so I saw much of it first-hand, and know the sales figures of most shops in Copenhagen. It was still D&D, so it sold a bunch. But the fact was that 3rd edition was immensely succesful. They pumped out supplements for that shit like it was candy. Hell they got away with publishing the core in an updated 3.5 version and people were HAPPY they did - because people played the shit out of it and fixes and updates was worth their money. I have maybe 20 gigs of .pdfs on my computer - just 3.5 and its supplements. It sold so well they could churn out supplement after supplement. All because the design of the system was customizable, the mechanics are some of the most open since GURPS. All this in a framework that was easy to understand and use. Complexity and ease-of-use combined, in a way. 4th ed. wasn't the same smash hit. People who bought a shit-ton of 3.5 bought maybe core and one or two supplements for 4th. No spin-offs were really made either.

And worst of all - and this is really bad for an RPG system - they didn't play it. They went back to playing 3rd. And you buy what you play

This wasn't at all a problem of the same magnitude from AD&D to 3rd. Almost everybody transitioned into playing 3rd at some point. For 4th this transition never happened. Most customers play 4th as a "break" when they want to give 3rd a rest for a while.

@PorkaMorka: That's your truth, and it's cool that you think so. Personally I enjoy almost every aspect of what table-top have to offer - from three-hour 5-foot-step fests as you call them, to the adventure and exploration driven stuff and everything else. However, if you only enjoy light systems, I'd suggest you ditch D&D entirely OR play 4th edition (yep, I'm dead serious). Ditch D&D entirely if you want light combat that's not very deep and just want to get on with what you're doing. Use 4th ed if you want meaningful combat but that's easy and has fast turns. Of course 4th ed battles are still slow and require a battle map and miniatures (we just use dice, why people spend money on plastic figures for this shit is beyond me).

 

[crufty]

hackmaster

 

[Insane Psychic]

Grunker>> What shop did you work at?


And I have to agree with the criticism of 4th Ed. Many of the powers were beyond boring. It functioned decently as a board game, but the non-combat encounters suggested in the book were shit, and I can't help but hate the magic system. Wizards are supposed to be powerful, dammit! Not just cast a single "controller" power here and a magic missile there.
Finally, it just seemed to be an obvious attemp to capture the WoW segment, which hopefully failed completely.

 

[oldmanpaco]

I'm going to be honest and say the only thing that really bothered me about 3E was the multi-classing rules. Yes I know you could make home brew rules which prevented it but even the prestige classes irritated me.

 

[RottingNaziSurfer]

I find Pathfinder to be a superior system to D&D 840th-zz edition

 

[Grunker]

Grunker>> What shop did you work at?

Faraos Cigarer in Copenhagen

 

[Mrowak]

I find Pathfinder to be a superior system to D&D 840th-zz edition

Of course. Because it is revamped D&D 3.0. They even say theat in the foreword to the Core Rulebook.

Essentially Pathfinder is what D&D 4.0 should have been.

 

[Random]

Pathfinder or bust.

 

[Norfleet]

Actually, it is _strongly_ suspected that WOTC will eschew printed books and instead go with a pay to play online model, like their current D&D Insider service. So basically, the books will be kept online on a server, along with tools like a character builder and monster builder etc, and you can only access them as long as you pay a monthly fee.

So how do people actually PLAY THE GAME? Do they have to memorize the entire ruleset or play only when camped out around a computer? This seems rather awkward. And in no way will it prevent someone from copy-pasting the entire thing.