Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

CKII is released.

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,115
I have both. The HRE had expanded a lot into Africa (somehow) but quickly converted the local dune coons so all I can think of is that the emperor FOR SOME REASON joined the Assassin society
No idea how he managed to convert half his vassals though.

Honestly, makes me not want to play that game anymore. I managed to get the Karlings back in the saddle, which was my initial goal anyway.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,071
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Ok yeah that's pretty dumb. The AI with the highest title should be a lot harder to convert, or it should at least immediately result in a revolt.

Since we're showing off religion

0F86006E717EBFD4985FC1117FEB028A38AF1DB0
 

wwsd

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
7,677
I have both. The HRE had expanded a lot into Africa (somehow) but quickly converted the local dune coons so all I can think of is that the emperor FOR SOME REASON joined the Assassin society
No idea how he managed to convert half his vassals though.

Always seems to happen to me too. The HRE in North Africa, that is. It ties in to my complaint about crusades on Egypt. The HRE tends to be pretty stable in 1066 nowadays, so they have to expand somewhere. The Muslim realms in North Africa are often divided and within range for holy wars. Sometimes they even overexert themselves by taking Sardinia, which they can't hold for long. So within the century North Africa is Catholic and German.

I've never seen an AI Christian ruler suddenly turn Shia, but I suppose it's possible just because they'll spam activities at random, including joining societies, and you have to convert either openly or secretly to join the Assassins. Joining the Assassins seems to be possible for just about anyone (within 300 distance of any openly Shia ruler), so I suppose this can happen at any time due to the AI just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,071
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Yeah, they're still around. And the Mongols are catholic, the Persians are Orthodox and the Africans were Christians but they're getting whacked by the Sunnis who finally started to get off their asses and do something.

This is the second time I've tried playing Germanic Norse where Christianity basically took over the world. The first time Ireland, Scotland, wales and Spain were all catholic, and Jerusalem was in Catholic hands, which of course meant that the next crusade was against Norway. My kingdom.
Which is why in this game I spend 500 years spreading my rule around to create a series of Norse states that draw the Crusade away from my Empire.

What's funny is that in my first attempt the Abbasids didn't immediately crumple after the First Crusade and actually retook Jerusalem. That campaign got lost though before I could form the Empire, because the game decided to make my heir into an idiot and have nearly every vassal join a faction to put some other asshole on the throne. Also I fucked up and gave the fylkirite to some other guy.

This time I'm actually close to getting to the end, unless the game decides to fuck me over in the next 35 years.
Its not quite how I wanted it though; I never really got to declare Great Holy Wars because of my threat level, and I can't really grant independence to my vassals because they will get consumed by Catholicism. So my threat level is constantly high, meaning that declaring a GHW is guranteed to trigger the defensive pact. I guess I could have giving the fylkirate to my heir and that would have circumvented it, but I just know the AI would do something retarded and declare a GHW against a useless target that would have fallen anyway to generic Holy Wars.
 
Last edited:

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,847
My understanding is that christians are the only ones who always work to actively convert the realm, other religions only do so if they have a zealous ruler which leads to a lot of religion gore.
Muslims get extra taxes from infidels, so they, even historically, didn't try to convert the populace too hard. Pagans are shit at conversion by default, and that leaves India, which usually gets invaded by muslims. It's not that christians are actively working at conversion, it's that muslims aren't and everyone else is shit at it.
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
For those who play Catholic Western Europe powers, what are they missing from not owning Jade Dragon?
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,071
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Eh, my game the Pope never seem interested in retaking Hispania. So the Muslims formed an Empire there.
We did take back Egypt - but as usual it's getting gangbanged post-Crusades with not much hope of surviving for long.

Hispania is pretty low on the crusade priority list, but its still higher than Norway.
Basically, if you are playing Norse and the Catholics take control of Spain, you are pretty much fucked.

So how does Vassal retraction work? I want to clean my borders a little to form some more norse kingdoms, but chunks of land are divided between different kings.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,280
My understanding is that christians are the only ones who always work to actively convert the realm, other religions only do so if they have a zealous ruler which leads to a lot of religion gore.
Muslims get extra taxes from infidels, so they, even historically, didn't try to convert the populace too hard. Pagans are shit at conversion by default, and that leaves India, which usually gets invaded by muslims. It's not that christians are actively working at conversion, it's that muslims aren't and everyone else is shit at it.

No, it's actually that christians are basically always working at converting everything

in 00_religions.txt:

christian = {
ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert
}

muslim = {
ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
ai_convert_other_group = 1 # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
}
indian_group = {
ai_convert_same_group = 1 # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
ai_convert_other_group = 2 # always try to convert
}

jewish_group = {
ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
ai_convert_other_group = 1 # try to convert if ai_zeal is high
}
pagan_group = {
ai_convert_same_group = 2 # always try to convert
ai_convert_other_group = 0 # never try to convert
}

If you are reforming as pagan then your reformation decisions affects these values.

Eh, my game the Pope never seem interested in retaking Hispania. So the Muslims formed an Empire there.
We did take back Egypt - but as usual it's getting gangbanged post-Crusades with not much hope of surviving for long.

Hispania is pretty low on the crusade priority list, but its still higher than Norway.
Basically, if you are playing Norse and the Catholics take control of Spain, you are pretty much fucked.

So how does Vassal retraction work? I want to clean my borders a little to form some more norse kingdoms, but chunks of land are divided between different kings.

Regarding crusades, once you get low on the list its basically random. It's not a strictly ordered list, it's only a weighting towards the target and at that point you have dozens of low-weight options. Also it only goes after Kingdoms which are considered sufficiently "powerful" I think.

Vassal retraction is tyranny-free with imperial administration IIRC.

For those who play Catholic Western Europe powers, what are they missing from not owning Jade Dragon?

Uhh, rally points for your raised levies and the new generic CBs which are kind of meh. Unless you wanted to explicitly disable the range restriction rule from China so that you can Skype the Emperor from the other side of the globe and have Amazon deliver your gifts back and forth with their medieval overnight shipping.
 
Last edited:

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
I finished my Great Library IV and now moving on to getting a Great Harbor done in another 3-town holding county.
I'm extremely pleased to report that my brother is an ugly sloth that has very little redeeming value in diplomacy, martial, and intrigue and I've reached my 16th birthday after years of regency since my birth with no factions able to stand up to coercion from my spymasters.

O6TlYzD.jpg


:salute: It's time to clean house again. But first to impregnate my 27-year-old strong cousin I took as my wife.

LkfhZjE.png
 
Last edited:

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,115
No, it's actually that christians are basically always working at converting everything

Then my CURRENT YEAR Germany makes even less sense, with a cynical ruler at the helm. Dammit Paradox.

e: Is this guy a reference I'm not getting? I know they have little easter egg characters hidden around the world.

Clipboard02.png
 
Last edited:

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Further proof Marriage AI is fucked.
Vassal literally married THIS creature upon adulthood.

unknown.png


I also love this perfect specimen I engineered...

unknown.png


Craven
Content
Greedy
and Honest.
Perfect.
 
Last edited:

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,071
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Vassal retraction is tyranny-free with imperial administration IIRC.

I know that, I mean in terms of the vassal in question rebelling. The -5 penalty from all other vassals doesn't bother me (still no imperial admin), its the chance of there being another civil war that's the problem.
 
Last edited:

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
28,115
Further proof Marriage AI is fucked.
Vassal literally married THIS creature upon adulthood.

unknown.png


I also love this perfect specimen I engineered...

unknown.png


Craven
Content
Greedy
and Honest.
Perfect.

There is already a system in place to judge the value of a marriage yet apparently it only applies when the player tries to marry, never when your heir or grandkids are marrying themselves off.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,280
Vassal retraction is tyranny-free with imperial administration IIRC.

I know that, I mean in terms of the vassal in question rebelling. The -5 penalty from all other vassals doesn't bother me (still no imperial admin), its the chance of there being another civil war that's the problem.

In that case I find the best way to start is to get them in your jail by:

- Direct imprisonment
- Plotting to revoke a title
- The intrigue focus to spy on them

In the first two situations it will lead to a war but only vs. them, they won't call in literally everyone in the realm who dislikes you. Plus you can raise your armies ahead of time and have them on his capital.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,280
If its a very powerful vassal that you couldn't fight 1v1 then I'd try to mollify them with a marriage and an NAP for the time being. If they have low enough intrigue and you use your marshal to boost arrest chance you might have a pretty good chance of getting them in the arrest, but its risky. Yes, there's basically no legit way to take land from powerful vassals without a fight. I think Kings are basically scripted to always rebel rather than cede land, even if you greatly outnumber them.

If their bloodline is thin you could try assassinating them till you inherit their stuff.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,071
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Not quite true, I did manage to retract a Jarl of Nidaros from the King of Lappland. So it is possible. I did have the king at 100 opinion though.
The problem though is that Dal is under the Jarldom of Mercia which is de jure under the Kingdom of England, and Dal is supposed to be under Vestergauntet. As I don't know the exact mechanics behind retraction and rebellion, I don't know if its an automatic revolt if trying to retract a dejure vassal, or if there are conditions.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,847
You're an important vassal so he wants you on the council regardless of how shitty your abilities are. After all, placing someone on council not only raises his opinion, but also prevents him from joining any factions. Placing powerful retards on the council can be a very viable move to hold the realm together.
 

CthuluIsSpy

Arcane
Joined
Dec 26, 2014
Messages
8,071
Location
On the internet, writing shit posts.
Well, I did it. Got to 1453 with an Emperor that ruled for 50 years and survived the Great Pox and held off Cancer, thanks to winning a game with Death.
Oh, and in typical end game fashion I finished the play through by conquering France. I didn't even need help, I just loaded up a bunch of boats, attacked while France and other catholic nations were busy fighting England, took out France's 30k stack in Britain and proceeded to seize occupy lands on the French coast, which still gives you a ridiculous amount of Warscore.

Turns out if the AI is already engaged in a war they won't join another one, and you can basically keep the Pope from declaring crusades by making sure his armies are raised, because a Great Holy War / Crusade declaration still follows the usual requirement for declaring war.

EEEA1E43413A814411049F70B4D740C483814CCF


Its a pity you can't continue after 1453, because things were getting interesting. More Norse kingdoms were getting formed, I was one click away from making Norse Britannia, and the Muslims finally declared a Jihad against Arabia.
The only real problem was that my primary heirs were getting leprosy, and I had a real scare where I nearly lost the Empire because Gavelkind and Primogeniture really don't like it if the primary heir dies before becoming king. Fortunately I managed to change it so that I won't basically lose the Empire if Norway goes to the wrong heir.
 
Last edited:

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,099
Its a pity you can't continue after 1453, because things were getting interesting. More Norse kingdoms were getting formed, I was one click away from making Norse Britannia, and the Muslims finally declared a Jihad against Arabia.
The only real problem was that my primary heirs were getting leprosy, and I had a real scare where I nearly lost the Empire because Gavelkind and Primogeniture really don't like it if the primary heir dies before becoming king. Fortunately I managed to change it so that I won't basically lose the Empire if Norway goes to the wrong heir.

You can edit the end date somewhere. In a currently running game, IIRC, you do it in the save files.

You're an important vassal so he wants you on the council regardless of how shitty your abilities are. After all, placing someone on council not only raises his opinion, but also prevents him from joining any factions. Placing powerful retards on the council can be a very viable move to hold the realm together.

Keep you friends close and your retards even closer.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom