CKII is released.

[Andnjord]

Whilst they are greatly improving the economical and naval aspects of the game, the land warfare aspect seems to be greatly dumbed down, with no OOB, no units leader, no NATO counters (only sprites) and most damning of all it greatly discourages individual divisional management, instead they want you to wage war strictly by using battle plans and letting the AI do it.
As a comparison they'd probably completely automate the industrialization of your country if they'd use the same approach (as in they dumb down the main aspect of HOI IV hence the same approach would dumb down the main aspect of V2, industrialization).

Now, we don't know how that will work in practice yet, but the only gameplay video we saw was of the invasion of Poland where they just draw some big arrows on the map and left the game take care of itself (also it looked hideous).

 

[aleph]

... with no OOB, no units leader, no NATO counters (only sprites)

Okay, this sounds quite meh

and most damning of all it greatly discourages individual divisional management, instead they want you to wage war strictly by using battle plans and letting the AI do it.

This on the other is quite nice, if the AI is up to par and setting up battle plans allows for interesting gameplay. I also found it strange that in previous HoI games the grand strategy approach took a backseat to fiddling around with small scale stuff like division composition.

As a comparison they'd probably completely automate the industrialization of your country if they'd use the same approach.

This might work out if they do it smartly, like you don't manage individual factories and trade but draw up industrial policies or 5-year-plans.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

It can hardly be described as dumbed down when the system greatly extends the amount of planning you must do beforehand considerably, and longterm decisions are much more necessary than before. They also haven't really discussed how closely you'll be able manage land warfare after drawing up the battleplans several weeks and months before they're put into action.

OOB itself seems largely to have been replaced by the battle plan system (which may be more meaningful if they elaborate more on what kind of snap changes you're allowed to do), and this is not necessarily a bad thing since OOB in HoI3's scale was prone to becoming so labyrinthine its meaningfulness deteriorated (and because snap changes to OOB were largely penalty free since the organization hit was never too much to deal with unless you were in Inner Buttfuckistan or something). OOB was largely a sexy feature, not a particularly important feature.

Moreover, unit leaders themselves are a non-issue because they largely acted as a initial combat capability modifier for each nation, which generally meant nothing more that Germany has a panzer elite formation with 5+ skill generals and everyone else had mostly or at best 3+. Individual division management is also secondary in importance to having large scale strategic depth, which something like having to draw up plans for an operation where you have to come up with contingencies for worst case scenarios you have to predict yourself would provide depth over adapting to individual battles via organizing retreats, encirclements or reinforcements from other divisions in the area. IF the battle plans system actually works, since it's a radical departure from the normal Pdox model we've become used to. At the very least the idea of longterm strategic decisions acting as a series of chains rooted in economics and politics as macroscale grand strategy is a sound idea on paper (the clincher remains on whether or not it is destroyed by microscale issues and in what way). A more important question is WHY AREN'T EU4 and CK2 using something closer to a combat model like HoI3 had to provide a better experience than Mega-Stack Deathmatch & Triathlon.

Victoria comparison to the model previewed would be a system where you draw up Five Year Plans (though since Pdox are pussies you obviously can't incorporate genocide and other mean things to your insane socio-political-economic-military plans for world domination).

Also, the NATO counters aren't THAT big of a deal, and I'll eat my proverbial hat if they haven't already come up with a devious plan to release at least one-three unit counter sets as DLC.

 

[Andnjord]

Vaarna_Aarne aleph

I've answered in the HoI IV thread, a more appropriate place to discuss this.

 

[Brinko]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ouncing-crusader-kings-ii-horse-lords.859192/

New "Horse Lords" Expansion Coming to Crusader Kings II

STOCKHOLM – June 2, 2015 – The sound of hoof beats echoes across the plain, and you can see the dust kicked up by their approach hours before the first arrow falls. You have heard about this demonic army of master horsemen for years, laying waste to everything before them. Sheikhs and Caliphs and Tsars have failed to stop their progress. The tumult can only mean one thing.

The Horse Lords are coming to Crusader Kings II.

The nomadic invasions of the Mongol and Turkic steppe tribes transformed the history of Europe, the Near East and much of Asia. Genghiz Khan built the largest contiguous land empire the world has ever seen. And now Paradox Development Studios brings you the clan politics, the mighty hordes and the migratory push for new lands that will bring this exciting and vibrant culture to life.

We hope this new trailer gets you ready to saddle up and join the invasion:



With an expanded map, revised interface and new rules for successions and trade, Horse Lordswill immerse you in a world very different from the fixed settlements of Europe and challenge you to become the Great Khan – the Ruler of the Sky.

Features in the coming Horse Lords expansion include:

• Nomadic rule: Distinct from the tribal governments already in game, nomads need lots of space and resist the trappings of settlement
• Clan politics: Rule a clan within a nomadic tribe, split clans that get too large, fight for dominance, and proclaim feuds and blood oaths
• Muster Hordes: Raise vast armies of horsemen and archers, mobilizing your entire population to ride forth and conquer
• Silk Road: This rich trade network can bring great wealth to whomever controls the cities along the route – but it’s especially ripe for pillaging.
• Larger Map: The Central Asian plains have been expanded
• Tributaries: New diplomatic relationship for nomad states forces defeated enemies to keep the Khan’s coffers filled.
• Forts: build temporary fortifications to hold a province under your sway for just long enough for you to finish the war.

Horse Lords is the eighth major expansion to Crusader Kings II and will be coming to major digital retailers very soon. In the meantime, prepare to meet the Great Khan on the field of battle; your stone walls won’t help you.

Again with the fucking map expansion

 

[Kazuki]

Another Map Expansion ?

Why they can just focus on western europe, the christian country that stills lacking even after sons of abraham expansion.
I mean what the fuck they still call this game "Crusaders Kings" ffs.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Because everyone cares about the pagans, nobody cares about a bunch of people who worship a Jewish zombie.

(Also that's a very sexy list of Mongol features)

 

[Delterius]

I want a 'Runs your big Empires smoother' DLC. At least before the inevitable Far East map expansion.

 

[Konjad]

What?! But... where the fuck is my Pope DLC I'll purchase it, possibly even as it sounds like a great expansion with a different gameplay, but I really wanted a DLC that would finally allow me to role-play priests up to the pope.

 

[IDtenT]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/weekly-dev-diary-4-horse-lords.859206/

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

The map expansion in Central Asia is actually not a bad thing overall, since currently the whole Caspian Sea neighbourhood is rather crowded.

EDIT: Also look at that silly bastard in the Dev Diary's first pic's portrait. Second coming of Mediterranean Portraits?

EDIT2: Overall, the nomads sound like they're what Tribals SHOULD have been like (except without pretty pretty horsies).

 

[TripJack]

awesome, playable mongoloids fighting over playable mongolia is exactly what Crusader Kings needs

 

[IDtenT]

I'm curious to know what this does to Sunset Invasion.

 

[Quigs]

Personally I wish they'd just make it easier to go to war as a Christian. As a Norseman, I conquered all of Scandinavia, The British Isles, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. As an Irishman, I can conquer my small island well enough, but then I'm kind of forced into picking off small counties across the map, never able to go to war against the Scots or English.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

You know what's the easy answer?

HERESY

 

[Average Manatee]

Personally I wish they'd just make it easier to go to war as a Christian. As a Norseman, I conquered all of Scandinavia, The British Isles, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. As an Irishman, I can conquer my small island well enough, but then I'm kind of forced into picking off small counties across the map, never able to go to war against the Scots or English.

Marry anyone with a claim->get pope to sanction an invasion (works even with a weak claim)->Rule Britannia in one war?

 

[Quigs]

Personally I wish they'd just make it easier to go to war as a Christian. As a Norseman, I conquered all of Scandinavia, The British Isles, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. As an Irishman, I can conquer my small island well enough, but then I'm kind of forced into picking off small counties across the map, never able to go to war against the Scots or English.

Marry anyone with a claim->get pope to sanction an invasion (works even with a weak claim)->Rule Britannia in one war?

Is it really that easy? I keep marrying for stats and traits. I'd thought marrying off a daughter for the alliance would be enough for a claim, but it hasn't been. Hunh. I'll try it out tonight, thanks.

 

[Delterius]

Here's something even easier:

start as an Irish count

(Gotta be/get cynical somehow)

invite every heretic in Europe to your humble abode

go Cathar (preferrably)

Become God King of the Irish Roman Empire

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

I think it's better to go Heretic AFTER you got a strong powerbase.

Personally I wish they'd just make it easier to go to war as a Christian. As a Norseman, I conquered all of Scandinavia, The British Isles, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. As an Irishman, I can conquer my small island well enough, but then I'm kind of forced into picking off small counties across the map, never able to go to war against the Scots or English.

Marry anyone with a claim->get pope to sanction an invasion (works even with a weak claim)->Rule Britannia in one war?

Is it really that easy? I keep marrying for stats and traits. I'd thought marrying off a daughter for the alliance would be enough for a claim, but it hasn't been. Hunh. I'll try it out tonight, thanks.

Well, you have a choice between marrying for shenanigans, or marrying for Kwisatz Haderach breeding program.

In general, you have three choices for forging an empire:

1) Chancellor tells everyone you totally rule everything.
2) HERESY
3) Claim-game, Papal permission.

 

[Quigs]

Yeah, The forged claim is the way I've been going as a Christian, combined with marrying sons and daughters out. Steamrolling Eire is a breeze that way, with all the duchys abounding in the northern half, making it easy to claim the Kingship.

Doesn't Heresy normally leave you open to attack? I'd fear that if I went the Hersey route (something I'd never honestly considered before), I'd be swallowed up by neighbors in short order.

 

[Delterius]

I think it's better to go Heretic AFTER you got a strong powerbase.

But herein lies the magic of being Irish. In the Charlemagne start, the Irish are still tribal. Use that to your advantage and raid everyone. That alone gives you the prestige and gold required to progressively conquer Britain through the Raise Tribal Army Decision and constant Holy Wars, such that no one ever disbands.

Once I was done, Catholicism was wrecked so much that mainland Europe went Lollard.

Doesn't Heresy normally leave you open to attack? I'd fear that if I went the Hersey route (something I'd never honestly considered before), I'd be swallowed up by neighbors in short order.

That's the other side of the magic of being Irish -- only your neighbors, paltry irish counts, are going to attack you. If you can ensure at least a full duchy before going heretic, nobody will fuck with you. Even more so after their homes were raided by the Great Heathen Army of Dublinna.

 

[Average Manatee]

Personally I wish they'd just make it easier to go to war as a Christian. As a Norseman, I conquered all of Scandinavia, The British Isles, Germany, France, Spain and Italy. As an Irishman, I can conquer my small island well enough, but then I'm kind of forced into picking off small counties across the map, never able to go to war against the Scots or English.

Marry anyone with a claim->get pope to sanction an invasion (works even with a weak claim)->Rule Britannia in one war?

Is it really that easy? I keep marrying for stats and traits. I'd thought marrying off a daughter for the alliance would be enough for a claim, but it hasn't been. Hunh. I'll try it out tonight, thanks.

If you marry a daughter to a claimant then their children will get the claim when the claimant dies (assuming the claim can be passed on, the mouse over text will tell you).

To get the Pope to sanction an invasion YOU must be the one with a claim, meaning you must be the child of a claimant. If your wife or husband has a claim you can press it for them, but its hard to marry someone with a strong claim (weak claims are hard to press normally) and even if you do press it they'll be the king and probably fuck it up before your child inherits both yours and their kingdom. So better to just ensure that your child inherits your land + their claims and then use His Popeness to sanction the invasion.

 

[Delterius]

I was about to ask whether I should buy Way of Life, then this hits me:

The seduction feature needs to be toned down significantly for the AI. As it stands right now its just ridiculous, other people are having more children with my wifes than I am.

 

[Zeronet]

Like most Paradox DLC, i'd only buy it on sale.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Someone made an LP with release version Way of Life where the sole idea was that his Somalian character was going to impregnate every lady in Europe.

 

[Andnjord]

You're all forgetting the best way to expand as a christian: righteous crusading to expand the good word of the Lord! You even get bonus piety if you're into that sort of thing.

Yeah okay, you do have to get some sort of power base before that, but still, few things make me happier than seeing super abbasid breaking up to be eaten in cute little morsels.

And regarding the expansion, additional map will probably mean that I'll never play it as my toaster already has trouble running it after the Rajas expansion. I guess I'll have to stop the game from updating if I still want to keep on playing it.

Someone made an LP with release version Way of Life where the sole idea was that his Somalian character was going to impregnate every lady in Europe.

Where can I find that?