CD Projekt's Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 + Phantom Liberty Expansion Thread

[Gargaune]

The only problem is how to fix this because it wouldn't be as easy as drinking some blood when you are a vampire ! Would you need to go to a fixer to remove some implants? Or at least get some adjusted? This could be a good reason to make the fixers more important overall...

I was thinking on that too, since cyberpsychosis is pitched as a definitively blown fuse in Cyberpunk's lore, not just flipping some switches like in Jensen's case, but taking a couple of liberties really wouldn't have been the end of the world. You could require regular maintenance or sleep or introduced an addiction to some costly focus-enhancing drugs or etc. etc. and you could've even tied some of that stuff into Regina's quest for a cyberpsychosis treatment or whatever. Point being, it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but rather an opportunity to add some interesting mechanical loops to the game.

 

[Marat]

Another idea for modeling cyberpsychosis: You choose a dialogue line and V unexpectedly says something completely different at a crucial point, thus altering the reaction of the NPC and that could lead to surprising results, different quest resolutions etc.

 

[mediocrepoet]

The only problem is how to fix this because it wouldn't be as easy as drinking some blood when you are a vampire ! Would you need to go to a fixer to remove some implants? Or at least get some adjusted? This could be a good reason to make the fixers more important overall...

I was thinking on that too, since cyberpsychosis is pitched as a definitively blown fuse in Cyberpunk's lore, not just flipping some switches like in Jensen's case, but taking a couple of liberties really wouldn't have been the end of the world. You could require regular maintenance or sleep or introduced an addiction to some costly focus-enhancing drugs or etc. etc. and you could've even tied some of that stuff into Regina's quest for a cyberpsychosis treatment or whatever. Point being, it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but rather an opportunity to add some interesting mechanical loops to the game.

Another way to approach it might simply be to have the PC skirt the line but show another key NPC's descent into cyberpsychosis and becoming a major threat later on.

I was also thinking something similar to Marat above where perhaps certain dialogues become more railroaded into murder hobo territory the more far gone you are, perhaps culminating in something like no actual choices (can only push 1 to advance dialogue) and have something akin to Fallout's low int path that you're locked into if you go too far (after being warned that you really could slip off the edge).

 

[Gargaune]

In DX-MD? I might actually have to finally get that out of my backlog.

Yes, aside from the regular augmentations, you can choose to activate some black market systems at the expense of additional load on an Overclock stat. The higher your Overclock, the more likely you are to get Glitches, ranging from visual artifacts to UI failures and even critical augmentation malfunctions. Once you've enabled some of these black market features, the only way to reduce your Overclock is to permanently disable some of your regular systems.

Minor Spoiler

Though you'll get to a point in the plot where the Overclock mechanic is done away with and you can unlock everything you like with no issue, so it's not all that permanent.

And yeah, DX4 is absolutely worth bringing up from your backlog. It ain't perfect and there are some legitimate criticisms of the plot, but it's a genuinely fantastic title and the best DX entry since the original. Make sure you play its A Criminal Past DLC too, a tour de force for EM's level designers.

Another idea for modeling cyberpsychosis: You choose a dialogue line and V unexpectedly says something completely different at a crucial point, thus altering the reaction of the NPC and that could lead to surprising results, different quest resolutions etc.

Could lead to some hilarious outcomes, but then I think you'd really be nosediving into savescum territory. I suspect people would be onboard with whacking civvies and facing the NCPD over a cyberpsychosis fit, but they probably wouldn't be too happy botching a quest branch or waking up in River's bed on account of it.

Another way to approach it might simply be to have the PC skirt the line but show another key NPC's descent into cyberpsychosis and becoming a major threat later on.

Sure, it would be a solid way to show cyberpsychosis narratively, but given an opportunity, I'm always in favour of letting the player experience stuff in gameplay.

 

[Wesp5]

I was also thinking something similar to Marat above where perhaps certain dialogues become more railroaded into murder hobo territory the more far gone you are, perhaps culminating in something like no actual choices (can only push 1 to advance dialogue) and have something akin to Fallout's low int path that you're locked into if you go too far (after being warned that you really could slip off the edge).

That sounds like the Humanity system in Bloodlines: a low Humanity rating limits your dialogue options and increases the chance you will loose controls in a fight (due to frenzy). This could be transfered 1:1 to cyberpsychosis...

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

Kjaska for fuck sake, stop spamming your autistic reactions to everything.
Seven fucking notifications in few minutes and it was all you going in a sperg frenzy.

It's not like you have a sensible point to make, anyway.

 

[Trithne]

And yeah, DX4 is absolutely worth bringing up from your backlog. It ain't perfect and there are some legitimate criticisms of the plot, but it's a genuinely fantastic title and the best DX entry since the original. Make sure you play its A Criminal Past DLC too, a tour de force for EM's level designers.

Huh, that's actually pretty neat. I have (don't even remember how I got it, I know I didn't buy it) DXMD, but I skipped it since I figured it was just going to be more DXHR, seems that wasn't entirely the case?

Oh, right. And because of the microtransactions. I wanted no part of anything with that shit.

 

[Gargaune]

Huh, that's actually pretty neat. I have (don't even remember how I got it, I know I didn't buy it) DXMD, but I skipped it since I figured it was just going to be more DXHR, seems that wasn't entirely the case?

Oh, right. And because of the microtransactions. I wanted no part of anything with that shit.

It's better than HR but still an evolution from it instead of a complete overhaul, so if you hated that, MD might not do much better. I thought HR was reasonably good as a modern DX successor and MD was excellent by the same metric, so maybe set your expectations along those lines. And yeah, Squeenix's batshit nickel-and-diming really hobbled the game's release, it deserved better. Either way, if you already have it, it's at least worth trying for an hour or so to see how you get on, just don't get too hung up on the plot and disable Objective Locators and the Radar in your Gameplay Settings right away, Deus Ex games shouldn't have those.

But you know, talking about DX4 in here is getting me pissed off again. It's almost as if CDPR had another game that was perfect to model their bloody mechanics on but they didn't, imagine that.

 

[KVVRR]

The problem with adding a cyberpsychosis system that affects the storyline is that you might end up with something like Dishonored, where you are given all these tools but the game penalizes you if you actually use them.

Of course it wouldn't be as bad here since you fan use them, just not the whole kit at once, but I still feel like a lot of people wouldn't like that.

 

[Gargaune]

The problem with adding a cyberpsychosis system that affects the storyline is that you might end up with something like Dishonored, where you are given all these tools but the game penalizes you if you actually use them.

Of course it wouldn't be as bad here since you fan use them, just not the whole kit at once, but I still feel like a lot of people wouldn't like that.

I'm not sure that's the case. Even Dishonored's Chaos mechanic, while not the most inspired, was actually a creative relaxation of Thief's "don't kill people" rule - you could kill people, but there'd be a price to pay later. And ultimately, the cyberpsychosis mechanic we're discussing would be closer to the slot limitations on cyberware, I don't see a lot of people complaining that there's only one leg slot because, even among general audiences, it's understood that some exclusive choices are part of what makes the game work. So in what we were talking about you could have X total implants but as a soft limit, and you could go higher but at your own risk. I don't think the concept in and of itself would vex players, the trick would be for devs to correctly balance the limits and the consequences and to communicate them clearly.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

It's kind of dumb yeah. Like, if someone put a "support trans people" on a copy of Mein Kampf, does it suddenly become woke

Somebody get the channers on this, pronto.

 

[GhostCow]

I think you guys are way too focused on following the lore than making the gameplay fun. Rng isn't fun and neither is limiting your build because reasons.

 

[bobocrunch]

All the talk of cyberpsychosis and general tech problems really makes me wish Mankind Divided was finished, the social justice shit was way too hamfisted (especially when it's over an event where augs literally go psycho and rip people to shreds) and actually going to that desert city would've been amazing.

 

[bobocrunch]

In Deus Ex,mechanical augmentations also completely wrecks the social life of its possessor. See Gunther Hermann and Agent Navarre,who are so fucked up that they even compete against each other to see who has killed more NSF targets. It destroys a person's humanity,ironically enough,it doesn't elevate it.
Aaand,we have now turned a Cyberpunk 2077 thread into a Deus Ex one,which goes to show how much better the original Deus Ex is at building a dystopian and cyberpunk setting,while also delving into the morality and even tragic ramifications of enhancing the human body,but not its soul or aspirations.

Because in CDPR's Cyberpunk, these questions virtually don't exist. There's no "old grey golems sold at flee markets", no fears of obsolescence, or being forced into augmentation to compete in the market. In Cyberpunk, augmentation is standard. Everyone has it, and outside of a few crackpot or religious characters, no-one minds. There's a vague point being made about keeping up with the latest tech in order to stay competitive, but people view this the way we view learning a new skill in a rapidly moving industry. Even Cyberpsychos are just "lol too much chrome". Cyberpunk celebrates augmentation. At no point does someone ask "what about my leggs? what about my life?!"

I think it celebrates augmentation in the game world because of how much it's under corporate control. The biggest people are crackpots because it turns you into one, being anti-cyberware in a world controlled by cyberware. You can use tons of examples from politics to social shit irl nowadays, but as society condemns / flies by people, their arguments become more unhinged and radical to counter the normalization. Most of the pro-cyberware PDAs and shit are 'CYBERWARE IS AWESOME -SPONSORED BY ARASAKA' so as unsubtle as it is, the 'religious crackpot' is just more obvious as a 'lol funny goofball' than the mundane and normalized corporate / government fellatio of their own ideas and products.

I'm sure that's all cope and it's just surface level DUUUDE WHAT IF U HAD ROBOT ARMS twitter shit but Death of the Author.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Because in CDPR's Cyberpunk, these questions virtually don't exist. There's no "old grey golems sold at flee markets", no fears of obsolescence, or being forced into augmentation to compete in the market. In Cyberpunk, augmentation is standard. Everyone has it, and outside of a few crackpot or religious characters, no-one minds. There's a vague point being made about keeping up with the latest tech in order to stay competitive, but people view this the way we view learning a new skill in a rapidly moving industry. Even Cyberpsychos are just "lol too much chrome". Cyberpunk celebrates augmentation. At no point does someone ask "what about my leggs? what about my life?!"

because it's poorly written

hope that clears things up

 

[NecroLord]

Good writing? In Cyberpunk 2077?

 

[KVVRR]

The problem with adding a cyberpsychosis system that affects the storyline is that you might end up with something like Dishonored, where you are given all these tools but the game penalizes you if you actually use them.

Of course it wouldn't be as bad here since you fan use them, just not the whole kit at once, but I still feel like a lot of people wouldn't like that.

I'm not sure that's the case. Even Dishonored's Chaos mechanic, while not the most inspired, was actually a creative relaxation of Thief's "don't kill people" rule - you could kill people, but there'd be a price to pay later. And ultimately, the cyberpsychosis mechanic we're discussing would be closer to the slot limitations on cyberware, I don't see a lot of people complaining that there's only one leg slot because, even among general audiences, it's understood that some exclusive choices are part of what makes the game work. So in what we were talking about you could have X total implants but as a soft limit, and you could go higher but at your own risk. I don't think the concept in and of itself would vex players, the trick would be for devs to correctly balance the limits and the consequences and to communicate them clearly.

Sure, but my point is that people wouldn't like it. Even as relaxed as Dishonored's system is (that allows you to get the good ending so long as you don't go full rambo on most missions) just having the system in place there is enough to make people squirm. I've seen accounts of some being unable to play the game normally and just having to reload every time someone spots them because "what if the game penalizes me for killing them?"
Those are extreme cases but you get what I mean. People don't like ambiguous restrictions on their vidya, even if it is a cool idea.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

but my point is that people wouldn't like it.

 

[Grauken]

but my point is that people wouldn't like it.

obviously wrong otherwise people wouldn't have played on private vanilla servers

 

[orcinator]

but my point is that people wouldn't like it.

The real question is how would loss of Humanity work in a non-linear game like this where you can go on murder sprees the second you're out of the prologue

 

[Gargaune]

Sure, but my point is that people wouldn't like it. Even as relaxed as Dishonored's system is (that allows you to get the good ending so long as you don't go full rambo on most missions) just having the system in place there is enough to make people squirm. I've seen accounts of some being unable to play the game normally and just having to reload every time someone spots them because "what if the game penalizes me for killing them?"
Those are extreme cases but you get what I mean. People don't like ambiguous restrictions on their vidya, even if it is a cool idea.

Ambiguous, sure, and though I don't remember Dishonored all that well, I recall feeling uneasy about how many bodies I dropped and how much of an impact that would have on future missions. But, again, I don't see the concept of a cyberpsychosis mechanic generating random challenges past a clear threshold as analogue to Dishonored's Chaos mechanic - if, for the sake of example, it stated "after 5 implants, each additional implant adds a 3% chance of spazzing out in combat", is that ambiguous? You're not making an on-the-spot decision about owning up that one kill against a hypothetical kill you might need later and nebulous limits, you know what the stakes are and you're under no pressure to take that extra implant.

Consider the examples given, Deus Ex's Overclock mechanic or the Wild Mage with their "1 extra spell slot, 5% chance of wild surge when casting." Some people do play Wild Mages and I don't recall any complaints about DX4 featuring this sort of mechanic. In fact, I recall the opposite, people criticised...

Same Minor Spoiler

... the limit getting removed in the last part of the game.

It's just a risk-reward calculation that's common in RPGs, like picking one feat or spell over another, since you only get so many. Hell, just picking a Weapon Specialisation feat on leveling is more of an ambiguous crapshoot, seeing as you don't know what loot might be around the corner. So if you're feeling lucky, you take that first little step towards cyberpsychosis, see how you deal with the new risks or maintenance requirements, and then you decide whether you're up for more.

 

[KK1001]

Cyberpunk 2077 has bad writing because it is written by young, Anglophilic Western liberals who are explicitly trying to regurgitate Cyberpunk media. There's no voice. The essence of Cyberpunk is "Isn't it fun to rebel - and plus, we don't have anything better to do."

 

[rusty_shackleford]

who are explicitly trying to regurgitate Cyberpunk media.

the problem is, they aren't.
It's one of the least 'cyberpunk' entertainment products I've ever encountered

if someone asked me for an RPG with a cyberpunk setting, I'm not sure if I could name 10 but this wouldn't be in my top 10 I'd name

 

[ERYFKRAD]

who are explicitly trying to regurgitate Cyberpunk media.

the problem is, they aren't.
It's one of the least 'cyberpunk' entertainment products I've ever encountered

if someone asked me for an RPG with a cyberpunk setting, I'm not sure if I could name 10 but this wouldn't be in my top 10 I'd name

Which ones would you name?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

who are explicitly trying to regurgitate Cyberpunk media.

the problem is, they aren't.
It's one of the least 'cyberpunk' entertainment products I've ever encountered

if someone asked me for an RPG with a cyberpunk setting, I'm not sure if I could name 10 but this wouldn't be in my top 10 I'd name

Which ones would you name?

deus ex
anachronox
shadowrun game on snes
deus ex HR
shadowrun game on genesis
bladerunner adventure game because eh, it's close enough and worse things are considered rpgs now
deus ex MD

...shadowrun games by HBS are ok, but I think they're massively overrated here. So that's 3 more.
There, 10.