CD Project Red is dissing SKYRIM

[Dionysus]

As it stands, it's a worthy entrant in the Deus Ex / Thief / System Shock / Ultima Underworld genre of games (I'm not convinced that they should be called crpgs

I'm not convinced they are in the same genre. Thief is clearly a pure stealth game. Haven't played SS but Deus Ex has some pretty heavy customization so as far as I'm concerned it's an RPG.

SS was like Deus Ex without any interaction with the narrative or the NPCs. It was definitely less of an RPG because of that. It's probably not an RPG by contemporary standards.

 

[DraQ]

As it stands, it's a worthy entrant in the Deus Ex / Thief / System Shock / Ultima Underworld genre of games (I'm not convinced that they should be called crpgs

I'm not convinced they are in the same genre. Thief is clearly a pure stealth game. Haven't played SS but Deus Ex has some pretty heavy customization so as far as I'm concerned it's an RPG.

SS was like Deus Ex without any interaction with the narrative or the NPCs. It was definitely less of an RPG because of that. It's probably not an RPG by contemporary standards.

It's not an RPG by any standards.

It has neither stats, nor C&C, so how exactly can it be considered an RPG, even hybrid one?

It's rich and atypical FPS/survival horror, plain and simple.

 

[Jaesun]

As it stands, it's a worthy entrant in the Deus Ex / Thief / System Shock / Ultima Underworld genre of games (I'm not convinced that they should be called crpgs

I'm not convinced they are in the same genre. Thief is clearly a pure stealth game. Haven't played SS but Deus Ex has some pretty heavy customization so as far as I'm concerned it's an RPG.

SS was like Deus Ex without any interaction with the narrative or the NPCs. It was definitely less of an RPG because of that. It's probably not an RPG by contemporary standards.

It's not an RPG by any standards.

It has neither stats, nor C&C, so how exactly can it be considered an RPG, even hybrid one?

It's rich and atypical FPS/survival horror, plain and simple.

cRPG's MUST have C&C? Guess I gotta move a fucking ton of threads out of here....

And last time I played Half Life² it didn't have Classes, and player skills. Am I missing something?

 

[DraQ]

As it stands, it's a worthy entrant in the Deus Ex / Thief / System Shock / Ultima Underworld genre of games (I'm not convinced that they should be called crpgs

I'm not convinced they are in the same genre. Thief is clearly a pure stealth game. Haven't played SS but Deus Ex has some pretty heavy customization so as far as I'm concerned it's an RPG.

SS was like Deus Ex without any interaction with the narrative or the NPCs. It was definitely less of an RPG because of that. It's probably not an RPG by contemporary standards.

It's not an RPG by any standards.

It has neither stats, nor C&C, so how exactly can it be considered an RPG, even hybrid one?

It's rich and atypical FPS/survival horror, plain and simple.

cRPG's MUST have C&C? Guess I gotta move a fucking ton of threads out of here....

Jaesun, you're a gigantic faggot who cannot into reading.

And last time I played Half Life² it didn't have Classes, and player skills. Am I missing something?

Yes, RPG.

Any non-retarded RPG definition includes at least one of following elements - stats, C&C. SS1 has neither.

Maybe you should just move all threads from GG to GRPG, since in every single game ever you play some role - be it Gordon Freeman or PacMan.

Problem?

 

[SuicideBunny]

Any non-retarded RPG definition includes at least one of following elements - stats, C&C. SS1 has neither.

any definition through c&c but not stats is retarded.
the only thing essential to rpgs are (more often than not individual-scale) stats which can be improved and are above a certain soft quantity and complexity threshold. everything else is fluff.

 

[DraQ]

Any non-retarded RPG definition includes at least one of following elements - stats, C&C. SS1 has neither.

any definition through c&c but not stats is retarded.
the only thing essential to rpgs are (more often than not individual-scale) stats which can be improved and are above a certain soft quantity and complexity threshold. everything else is fluff.

What if stats are assigned at the beginning, but cannot be improved?

 

[SuicideBunny]

then it's not an rpg, hybrid or otherwise. improvement of stats is the essential core that differentiated rpgs from their strategy roots.

 

[DraQ]

then it's not an rpg, hybrid or otherwise. improvement of stats is the essential core that differentiated rpgs from their strategy roots.

So, a game where you build your character stat-by-stat and have game play completely differently based on build is not an RPG unless it includes masturbation by incrementation?

m'kay.

 

[SuicideBunny]

sounds like a simulation to me. be as smug about it as you want, it doesn't change rpg development history.

 

[DraQ]

sounds like a simulation to me. be as smug about it as you want, it doesn't change rpg development history.

If history was all that counted, we wouldn't have left the sea.

 

[Darth Roxor]

sounds like a simulation to me. be as smug about it as you want, it doesn't change rpg development history.

If history was all that counted, we wouldn't have left the sea.

Yeah, hope you are enjoying the current popamole. The sea had much better Z-axis exploration, art design, enemy variety and design (those deep sea creatures? Popamole land only has some generic furfags)

 

[SuicideBunny]

sounds like a simulation to me. be as smug about it as you want, it doesn't change rpg development history.

If history was all that counted, we wouldn't have left the sea.

it's also what every rpg has in common: stats, ways to improve stats.
it is present in simulationist rpgs and narrativist rpgs alike, on paper as much as on consoles or computers, and the improvement part is what we generally mean when we say some random game from a different genre has rpg elements.

take improvement away from silent storm and all you have is a complex tactics game.
take it away from any pnp game on the narrative end of the spectrum and you have improv theater with predefined roles and a director.

there can be no rpg without improvement of stats.

 

[Serious_Business]

Tell me more

 

[Sordid Jester]

Character progression doesn't have to be an evolution through a statistical sheet but can exist solely through narration. Beginning as a typical lad just getting by and eventually ending up in a position where people depend on you to help/save them and being overwhelmed in where you have to make tough choices and can't do everything is as much RPG (if storyfaggish) as clicking on 'Level Up' and putting points somewhere (which itself only matters to an equal extent if the game makes certain choices more viable in one area, while other choices are better for another).

As long as evolution exists in the game where a character progresses through narrative or stats, and the choices made in that narrative or statistical screen have a different future impact on the character and story to the other options available, it's an RPG. Storyfag or Mondblutian. Even better if they're not mutually exclusive. Basically, you can have either approach but if they don't matter in the fucking slightest to the gameworld (narrative in Bioware games and statistics in later Bethesda games for example) then you still end up with shit-that-isn't-RPG either way son, despite the mechanics you have to 'qualify'.

I would say that a character sheet is absolute bare-bones requirement though. Or at least a name. It's not RPG if I can't bbe 'Beeftits McAwesome'.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Beginning as a typical lad just getting by and eventually ending up in a position where people depend on you to help/save them and being overwhelmed in where you have to make tough choices and can't do everything is as much RPG (if storyfaggish) as clicking on 'Level Up' and putting points somewhere

no. the latter is an rpg, the former an adventure with some story c&c... a genre that basically developed from pnp rpgs by (wait for it...) ditching the stats and stat improvement.

stats and stat improvement can be narrative, "geoffrey, squire of sir ronald, a young lad skilled with the sword but unable to hit the broad side of a barn with a bow" is as valid a character description as some statistical spreadsheet just like making your character go to the local smith, having him ask whether he would teach you a bit in exchange for some coin and so on, resulting in your char having the ability to smith some basic and crude items is as valid a form of stat improvement as leveling up and spending some skill points (if not even more so), but whether you have some story c&c does not in any way matter, other than possibly making your game better, regardless of its genre.