Can we really move beyond Tolkien's archetypes?

[Kz3r0]

Or the usual Mage/Thief/Warrior types and every in-between combination?
You can add technology, but after a while it will awfully resemble magic or it will be just another name for crafting.
Maybe the problem is that in real life you can't go beyond knowledge/intelligence, strength/physical ability, skills/specializations.
Am I forgetting something?
Do I have overlooked some crucial aspect?
What do you think?

 

[Phelot]

I'd say it's really tough to move beyond them. THere's a few things which are pretty under represented such as psionics, but that is essentially just another form of mage.

So I guess the only option is to try and breathe new ideas into these tried and true (but still cliche) aspects of fantasy settings.

Older games actually did this with magic before everyone seemed to settle on one WoW like, instant mana based magic.

But take Ultima's reagent magic. Or even Ultima 8's various forms of magic or even DnD games with their spell memorization. They were at least different from each other.

But the problem is that you can't think of something new until you do. I say there aren't any new ways, but then suddenly I think of one, so it's tough to say for sure.

 

[J1M]

There is the mage-tank similar to the ninja in FFXI. Rather than being a fat dude in heavy armor absorbing blows it uses spells and high evasion to avoid incoming damage. Was a neat idea, especially for an mmo class.

I'd like to see more emphasis put on a buff/debuff type character. Like I imagine the D&D bard to be based on the fluff description, but in practice it seems more potent to build some sort of dervish that uses standard attacks. The problem with a mostly/entirely buff/debuff character is that the bonuses to having them are not as visible.

It's really easy to see that crit the barbarian just got and recognize its value, but the value of a monster getting -4 to hit is not as clear. And often the additional damage/accuracy granted by a buffer is displayed in a way that gives credit for it to the buffed character.

If some way of showing the usefulness of buffs/debuffs whenever they made the difference was standardized as a visual queue I think they would be a more popular design choice. For damage it could be something basic like writing 11+2 damage instead of 13 on the screen. I have a couple of ideas that would be more impressive though:

-Instead of an aura that grants everyone else +2 damage, the buffing character could get a free attack (bow, throwing knife, etc) with a guaranteed hit for 2 damage every time an ally attacked a creature in range. Sure it wouldn't look that great in a group of 2, but in a group of 6 it would appear as though they got an attack every turn. Additionally, any sort of whirlwind attack that hits multiple creatures by the buffed character would trigger multiple shots by the buffer. Some sort of special rule would probably have to be implemented so damage reduction effects did not completely negate this damage.

-Alternatively, whenever the +2 to hit or -2 to hit on an enemy made the difference between a successful and unsuccessful strike, the buffing character could have an animation trigger to make it clear that they made the difference. If it's a magical effect then any sort of particle effects can be used, but a non-magic example would be as simple as an animation of the bard throwing sand in the face of the opponent when his -2 to hit allowed an ally to dodge.

 

[Mystary!]

You forgot the healer archetype. But no, everything will probablybe a mix of the existing roles.
Allthough now that i think about it, there was a swedish pnp called drakar & demoner that had classes that focuses on skill and knowledge but were neither thiefs nor mages. Merchants, scholars, priests (non healing kind!) etc. Perhaps the loremaster class in aod will be somewhat similiar.
But then again, they might all belong to the "specialist" archetype.

 

[J1M]

Another archetype that is common in books/movies but not in games is the bumbling hobbit, basically someone who lacks any real skills in combat or magic and still manages to pull through any encounter.

 

[soggie]

Another archetype that is common in books/movies but not in games is the bumbling hobbit, basically someone who lacks any real skills in combat or magic and still manages to pull through any encounter.

Jinxed with 10 Luck in Fallout.

 

[Mystary!]

Jinxed with 10 Luck in Fallout.

:shock: I had that on my very first playthrough, together with finesse.

 

[soggie]

Jinxed with 10 Luck in Fallout.

:shock: I had that on my very first playthrough, together with finesse.

I'm sure it was a very fun cherry popping experience.

How about making the character draw magic from objects, at the cost of destroying said object? Different objects give different mana source, which can be molded into different effects and shapes.

This kind of magic in a Dark Sun setting would rock I guess...

 

[analt]

Or the usual Mage/Thief/Warrior types and every in-between combination?

Those are not Tolkien's archetypes. They're D&D's archetypes. And you left out healer.

In Tolkien, all magic essentially belongs to NPCs, wizards are actually angels/demigods, thieves are only nominally present, and no religion = no cleric/druid healers. Everyone's basically a warrior or a noncombatant.

EDIT to include the, duh, ranger class, the only one that he did basically invent. Of course, his didn't include magic ...