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Editorial Buying Used Games Doesn't Make You a Bad Person

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Davaris

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Beautiful Clown Painting said:
Big Nick Digger said:
Piracy is justified with all the bullshit these publishers are pulling with DLC. They're trying to use it as a tool to make people buy new games by excluding whole game modes, and as a tool to milk the shit out of games. I'm not gonna buy a 10mb costume pack for $5 when I can get it for free.

And that is the archetype of greed: Bioware or Bethseda who try to milk every cent out of their fans will always condone with the fiercest terms a poor guy who can't afford to buy the crippled vanilla product while Vogel who does not suscribe to this shameless exploitation doesn't see the problem in you pirating him if you don't have the money to buy his games.

They are doing it to make more money, but it doesn't mean they are gouging their customers. The problem with the price of games, is they haven't increased in pace with inflation. So the DLC is a sneaky way to raise the price, without the sheep catching on.

Not that I'm defending the practice.
 

BethesdaLove

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Davaris said:
Beautiful Clown Painting said:
Big Nick Digger said:
Piracy is justified with all the bullshit these publishers are pulling with DLC. They're trying to use it as a tool to make people buy new games by excluding whole game modes, and as a tool to milk the shit out of games. I'm not gonna buy a 10mb costume pack for $5 when I can get it for free.

And that is the archetype of greed: Bioware or Bethseda who try to milk every cent out of their fans will always condone with the fiercest terms a poor guy who can't afford to buy the crippled vanilla product while Vogel who does not suscribe to this shameless exploitation doesn't see the problem in you pirating him if you don't have the money to buy his games.

They are doing it to make more money, but it doesn't mean they are gouging their customers. The problem with the price of games, is they haven't increased in pace with inflation. So the DLC is a sneaky way to raise the price, without the sheep catching on.

Not that I'm defending the practice.

AND SUDDENLY YOU ARE PART OF THE HERD! PAYING FOR A HALF FINISHED GAME WITH NPC ASKING TO BUY DLC! TRUE STORY!
 

Jaesun

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Maybe if Publishers weren't shitting out such shit games, people would probably be holding on to such games.

Ahh fuck who am I kidding r00fles!
 
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Davaris

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BethesdaLove said:
AND SUDDENLY YOU ARE PART OF THE HERD! PAYING FOR A HALF FINISHED GAME WITH NPC ASKING TO BUY DLC! TRUE STORY!

Oh no. I don't buy or play AAA garbage. I've gone on a strictly Indie only diet.
 

Zeros

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Awor Szurkrarz said:
Silellak said:
What I find more interesting than the customer/publisher dynamic is the used-game-retailer/publisher dynamic. Places such as Gamestop essentially 'leech' off the gaming industry, since a large part of their profits come from a practice that by-definition ensures the creators of the products they sell don't get paid.
They don't "leech" off the gaming industry - if anything, they "leech" of the gamers that trade in their games.

Indeed. Creating a market for people buying an used God of War 1/2 game can only help entice more people to look out for God of War 3/4/infinite.

Hence why id releasing the sauce code for their older games, or Bethesda giving up Arena or Daggerfall for download helps them create and enlarge their market.

I bet a lot of this bullshit comes from publishers who release Sports Sim 20XX every fucking year. Is EA involved in this somehow?
 

Tails

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Silellak said:
I don't think anyone intelligent is arguing that buying used games is wrong, just that if you buy used, you aren't supporting the people who make the games you're buying.
Indeed, but more the once we seen examples (well more in modern times) that such supporting doesn't guarantee what kind of games/sequels are going to be done later on.... like with Fallout or X-Com :/
 

Silellak

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Tails said:
Silellak said:
I don't think anyone intelligent is arguing that buying used games is wrong, just that if you buy used, you aren't supporting the people who make the games you're buying.
Indeed, but more the once we seen examples (well more in modern times) that such supporting doesn't guarantee what kind of games/sequels are going to be done later on.... like with Fallout or X-Com :/
True, but I don't consider a game purchase to be an "investment" in the future of a franchise. When I bought X-Com, I didn't buy it because I hoped for a sequel - I did it for the same reason most people buy any form of entertainment - because I thought the creators made something worth paying for.
 
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Silellak said:
img]http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/981438957_vPpv5-L.jpg[/img]

Tycho's technically right, but isn't that just semantics bs? People buy from resellers, either virtually or in stores, so buying Bioware games on Games 4 U essentially makes you one of their customers (unless you buy them from your friend Bob after he finishes them).
 

Beelze

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The problem with the anti-used crowd is that they're morons. My favorite piece of rhetoric is when they claim that games are the only medium that is practically brand new when bought used. This is, I suppose oppose to movies and music which change as they are passed from person to person, or books who's stories degrade every time they're resold. No, wait, all entertainment continues to be entertainment forever and is absolutely not like some fucking vehicle. In fact, books can survive in the right environments for thousands of years, while the glue in CDs will come loose regardless and hard drives will fail.

Even a baby can understand that when you give an object to someone else, you are unable to use it until you get it back. If a person buys a game, then resells it, and gamestop sells it to someone else, and that other person plays it, it is essentially like the first person is still using it. The first person don't keep a "phantom copy" that they can still use.

If publishers and developers want people to buy their shit, they need to stop making their shit so shitty. $60 for six fucking hours of blowing the heads off of polygons with crappy AI? In the good old days, we'd pay $60 for a massive, replayable adventure that we could talk to our friends about. The entire gaming market would fucking crash if publishers were allowed to outlaw used game sales. Gamestop wouldn't bother with a markup of a couple of bucks, and gamers sure as hell wouldn't want to be stuck with some expensive fly-by-night trendy piece of sparkling crap that is only somewhat fun for like a week.

None of this shit matters because all of these crappy games won't be remembered anyways. They won't be remembered because they were crap, and it will be impossible to remember them even if some sick moron wanted to because the online activation servers will have been taken offline long ago.

Penny Arcade:

"I honestly can't figure out how buying a used game was any better than piracy"
Because if someone buys a game and another person pirates it, there are two copies, while if the former sells it to the latter there is only one copy and the former needs to buy a new copy if he wants to own it again? Do people still give a fuck about what you say after you've shamelessly whored yourself out to the industry?

"you can imagine how quickly my cohort and I consume these things"
How is that shit fun? Consume? You don't fucking "consume" good entertainment. You enjoy it. I don't take a trip to Paris and say I consumed the artwork in the Louvre like I'm some kind of snobby shark. You consume crap. I quickly eat junk food for a snack. I'll listen to a bunch of recent pop music and then discard the YouTube links because I wanted a quick, stupid Katy Perry fix. I didn't consume Darklands, I sat through and enjoyed it. I didn't rush through Monkey Island and then throw the disks out the window. They're talking like these games are like those crappy flash games I used to run through in high school programming class to kill time because my teacher was the fucking football coach and spent the entire period jacking off under his desk. Seriously, why do people fucking buy all these games and rush through them? Even if they were masterpieces it would be stupid. You don't see people buying (or borrowing from a library LOLZ) a ton of classic novels and then speedreading them just so they can say they read them. People don't run around the Louvre like it's some kind of fucking achievement just to step foot in the place.

If sounds like Gabe and Tycho stupidly threw hundreds (thousands?) of dollars away buying and selling games to Gamestop, who's entire business is build around people being stupid enough to do this repeatedly and ripping them off. It's not "free money" because THEY RIPPED YOU OFF BIG TIME ON EVERY USED PURCHASE YOU MADE AND EVERY USED GAME THAT YOU SOLD. They should have either rented the games from blockbuster or, I dunno, bought a few good games that lasted a long time. Of course that doesn't get you years of comic worthy material. That's not really something they have to worry about because their comics could be written after a cursory glance at the latest IGN headlines.

Vogel said the right stuff but like always his observations are completely pointless and apparent to anyone with half a brain and he offers no solutions.
 

Silellak

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Clockwork Knight said:
Silellak said:
981438957_vPpv5-L.jpg

Tycho's technically right, but isn't that just semantics bs? People buy from resellers, either virtually or in stores, so buying Bioware games on Games 4 U essentially makes you one of their customers (unless you buy them from your friend Bob after he finishes them).
I don't think it's really semantics. If you buy the new Obsidiware game from Gamesplace, then you are both an Obsidiware and a Gamesplace customer. Why? Because your money went to both vendors. If you buy the Obsidiware game used, then your money is only going to Gamesplace. It's pretty basic logic -> you are a customer of whoever actually gets your money, whether it's all of it or just part of it.
 

Silellak

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xemous said:
If Ronald has a chair factory and sells them to furniture shoppes, every time a customer of the furniture shoppe buys and then sells one of the chairs second hand, should the shoppe or the factory get a cut? no, they don't, they don't get shit they already got paid. So go fuck yourself. Same applies with software. If the industry goes belly up boo fucking hoo get a bailout like the parasitic fuck u r
I don't think you understand. We don't disagree. I don't think creators should make money off of a used game sale. My point is simply that if you want to support the creators of a game, buying it used is not the way to do so, and that a company is in no way obligated to treat you as a customer if you buy their game used.

Pirates and used game purchasers only have two things in common: they aren't supporting the creators financially, and they aren't owed anything by the creators of the product. Personally, I don't really give two shits if you buy used or not, any more than I care if you choose to pirate or not. Just don't bitch when the creators choose to not fully support your used or pirated copy of the game.
 

obediah

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Davaris said:
They are doing it to make more money, but it doesn't mean they are gouging their customers. The problem with the price of games, is they haven't increased in pace with inflation. So the DLC is a sneaky way to raise the price, without the sheep catching on.

Inflation is such a minor player in the pricing of video games that it's not worth considering at this level. You can get by discussing development costs vs sales #s.

DLC is a low-cost and low-risk cash grab for games with good sales numbers. And publishers will continue to push them deeper into the core game experience as long as the revenue supports it.

Silellak said:
I don't think creators should make money off of a used game sale.

They already make money of the potential of every used games sale. The $10-30 resale value of a game is built into the $50-60 asking price. Granted, morans that reserve all the hot new releases are too stupid to realize this and demand cheaper new games, but it will still have an effect. If I have to pay $10 to activate a used game, I will pay $10 less for it. Meaning the guy that bought it new has $10 less to spend on new games.
 

1eyedking

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It's cute how the guy compares public libraries to pirating. No wonder no one takes indie anything seriously.

Stallman would be proud though.
 

GarfunkeL

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Have the PA-guys been this retarded for a long time now? I seem to remember them at least having little suspicion about F3 before its launch but haven't followed their comics in a long time.
 

m_s0

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Supporting games at launch? Yeah, totally worth it. Just look at Larian releasing the latest Divine Divinity patch fixing some potentially gamebreaking bugs for their loyal fans who bought the game at full price and not for a few bucks through GOG, Impulse and whatnot. Right? :smug:
 

Damned Registrations

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GarfunkeL said:
Have the PA-guys been this retarded for a long time now? I seem to remember them at least having little suspicion about F3 before its launch but haven't followed their comics in a long time.

Tycho made a newspost at one point saying it would be really obvious when they sold out. I'd say it happened at least a couple years ago, around the time they started doing promo comics. Ever since then they've been licking the balls of all sorts of games, and I've never seen them really bash a mainstream game since then.

I still find them entertaining sometimes, but their opinions aren't worth any more than any other industry whore.
 

mydnight

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I think publishers fail to realise (or pretend not to) that the value of a new game incorporates the resalability of the game. Without a second hand market, the price of new games would be lower, as first users would not be able to sell theirs. Therefore inherently the second hand market does help the publishers, whether they want to recognise it or not.
 

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