Grand Strategy Brutally Tough Grand Strategy Games/Mods

[Blackmill]

I've been interested in playing a grand strategy game for some time now. The reason I haven't yet played any is I have something particular in mind; I want a grand strategy game (or mod) where the "right move" is never obvious, so that even after having more or less mastered the system, there's maybe just a 65% chance that I reach my goal/win. That said, I don't want the difficulty to come from RNG-fuckery, or unfair bonuses given to the enemy. I want the difficulty to come from dozens of variables (some possibly unknown to the player) that make it impossible to perfectly predict the outcome of an action. In a game like this, mistakes should make sense in hindsight, and what would have been the right move should be clear, but only in hindsight.

 

[Matalarata]

Join our merry group of Dominions 4 players in MP gaming. You'll never see it comin'

 

[KoolNoodles]

Join our merry group of Dominions 4 players in MP gaming. You'll never see it comin'

That definitely fits the bill, though RNG has a role in the tactical combat. Most things can be planned for even then. Usually when you lose, it's because of a mistake. Since the only real challenge comes from multiplayer though.....oftentimes that "mistake" is poor diplomacy.

Other than that you could "go big" and find a strategy game that just has so many variables you will never account for all of them. Whether it makes it difficult I guess depends on how much time you put into it.

War in the East, for instance.

 

[not an artichoke]

War in the East multiplayer comes very close to this indeed, and can be very entertaining if your tolerance for micromanagement is high. Although if you analyze the systems closely it is possible to achieve some level of predictability. That takes a lot of time and energy, however. Learning the game well takes a very long time.

 

[Blackmill]

To be clear, I am looking for single-player grand strategy, not multiplayer. A basic example of the type of gameplay I am looking for;

Kingdom A is a fast-growing threat you wish to expunge before it eclipses you. You are currently stronger and could take over without much cost. However, Kingdom A has close relations (though you don't know how close) with Kingdom B, who might choose to aid Kingdom A should you invade, and their combined effort would cause you significant losses. Alternatively, you could ally yourself Kingdom C, with whom you have amicable relations, guaranteeing their support against opposing invasion, and in doing so significantly delay when Kingdom A becomes a legitimate threat. But, Kingdom C would surely demand significant resources in return, slowing your individual growth. As a third approach, you can do nothing, since you know Kingdom D has a trade agreement with Kingdom A, which Kingdom A would be tempted to cheat on as it grows larger. If Kingdom A does cheat, Kingdom D may take care of Kingdom A for you, but if that doesn't happen, Kingdom A will soon be in the advantageous position. All three options solve your problem in a different way, and all three options present different consequences should you fail, but none is the "obvious choice".

 

[not an artichoke]

No AI will give you the sort of challenge you're looking for once you play the game a few times and figure out the mechanics.

 

[not an artichoke]

Honestly it sounds like you'd be best off learning chess or something

 

[markec]

Play Birthright Gorgons Alliance.

 

[Cyberarmy]

First 2 Myth games maybe?

 

[Perkel]

To be clear, I am looking for single-player grand strategy, not multiplayer. A basic example of the type of gameplay I am looking for;

Kingdom A is a fast-growing threat you wish to expunge before it eclipses you. You are currently stronger and could take over without much cost. However, Kingdom A has close relations (though you don't know how close) with Kingdom B, who might choose to aid Kingdom A should you invade, and their combined effort would cause you significant losses. Alternatively, you could ally yourself Kingdom C, with whom you have amicable relations, guaranteeing their support against opposing invasion, and in doing so significantly delay when Kingdom A becomes a legitimate threat. But, Kingdom C would surely demand significant resources in return, slowing your individual growth. As a third approach, you can do nothing, since you know Kingdom D has a trade agreement with Kingdom A, which Kingdom A would be tempted to cheat on as it grows larger. If Kingdom A does cheat, Kingdom D may take care of Kingdom A for you, but if that doesn't happen, Kingdom A will soon be in the advantageous position. All three options solve your problem in a different way, and all three options present different consequences should you fail, but none is the "obvious choice".

Why not obvious ? Take EU3 or 4, CK2 choose glorious nation with tile stuffed between superpowers. Have fun.

My EU3 Glorious Pomerania run was the best fun i had with grand strategy games. Eat up smaller nations, fight off Poland, fight off Swedes, Fight off HRE pricks, grow and get stronger to eventually loose half of your kingdom to Poland-Lithuanian juggenaught to refocus yourself get few key allies and fuck up main poland with plan to ensure those polish pricks never will be able to rise again.

Eventually you get rebelion in time of your war with some superpower and you get downsized to one tile again and fade off in annals of history.

 

[kris]

To be clear, I am looking for single-player grand strategy, not multiplayer. A basic example of the type of gameplay I am looking for;

Kingdom A is a fast-growing threat you wish to expunge before it eclipses you. You are currently stronger and could take over without much cost. However, Kingdom A has close relations (though you don't know how close) with Kingdom B, who might choose to aid Kingdom A should you invade, and their combined effort would cause you significant losses. Alternatively, you could ally yourself Kingdom C, with whom you have amicable relations, guaranteeing their support against opposing invasion, and in doing so significantly delay when Kingdom A becomes a legitimate threat. But, Kingdom C would surely demand significant resources in return, slowing your individual growth. As a third approach, you can do nothing, since you know Kingdom D has a trade agreement with Kingdom A, which Kingdom A would be tempted to cheat on as it grows larger. If Kingdom A does cheat, Kingdom D may take care of Kingdom A for you, but if that doesn't happen, Kingdom A will soon be in the advantageous position. All three options solve your problem in a different way, and all three options present different consequences should you fail, but none is the "obvious choice".

Why not obvious ? Take EU3 or 4, CK2 choose glorious nation with tile stuffed between superpowers. Have fun.

My EU3 Glorious Pomerania run was the best fun i had with grand strategy games. Eat up smaller nations, fight off Poland, fight off Swedes, Fight off HRE pricks, grow and get stronger to eventually loose half of your kingdom to Poland-Lithuanian juggenaught to refocus yourself get few key allies and fuck up main poland with plan to ensure those polish pricks never will be able to rise again.

Eventually you get rebelion in time of your war with some superpower and you get downsized to one tile again and fade off in annals of history.

possibly the first post I seen on the codex that didnt brag about how super-easy everything was and how he breezed past everything without save-scumming and controlling the game with his dick. This go especially for the strategy forum.

 

[you know what time it is]

Caveman2cosmos (civ 4) on deity should do the trick. I lost so many time in so many ways... just to name a few:

Got greedy while trying to conquer my continent, beat a small nation into submission, but didn't account for a possible uprising, which happened at a dead center of my empire, splitting my forces in 3 relatively small packs that got beaten by other smallish nations i was in war with.

The other time when I actually succeeded with my little crusades and took over a sizable chunk of the map, i was met with a passive aggressive bullshit union of small nations with a backup from a far stronger one (my only real threat in this game up to that point). I was locked out for like a 100 turns, before my neighbors finally turned on their overlords, which took a good deal of convincing. (lost about 1/4 of my cities, had to convert into another religion and change my government type, gave away quite a few technologies and resources)

Got greedy again but much earlier than usual, instead of building at least some combat units, i went for an economy rush. Got rekt and razed by barbarians in roughly 70 turns.

 

[Ranselknulf]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...nd-Series)-Guides-Updates-amp-Optional-Extras