BROS SO IT IS GENERALLY AGREED

[MMXI]

Thread is quickly going downhill.

This. Mainly because people don't seem to know what the fuck they are arguing for and against.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

u

Quests and dialogue for starters. Character creation in more than one. Party members. A persistent world.

If you want to whinge over semantics, we can call infinity engine games ARPGs as well. Pretty much the only differences between them and roguelikes are the attributes of Dark Souls.

Or is your definition of an RPG, 'accuracy determined by die roll, + turn based.'

There are roguelikes that have quests, dialog, in what way does roguelikes lack character creation?
A persistent world is not the element of an RPG standard.

But this is all opinions I guess. So this is going nowhere.

Have you ever actually seen Rogue? Or DoomRL, or IVAN, or Nethack?

Have you ever seen Moria, Angband, ADOM, Caves of Qud?

 

[Mortmal]

What's your point? I know the history of RPGs and where they came from. That doesn't mean wargaming = RPG or, indeed, strategic combat = RPG.

The point is the genre span many aspects, and theres much variety . Originally its a strategy game subgenre. In fact purist should not even post at rpgcodex, its a place full of miscreants and infidels, now the truth , THE TRUTH , the quintesence of the rpg, is found at tacticular cancer, home of strategy games.
Is dark souls close to the original D&D vision? The father of all rpgs ? Make a character with stats, delve into a dungeon, overcome challenges ,theres even a story yes its all in it...Can you join other adventurers? yes you can.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Rofl at whoever called it the best game of the decade.

I'm willing to bet half of you will forget about this game in a few years.

I'm also curious as to why is this game the new standard for RPGs. From what I've seen, this game is more of a DMC / Diablo hybrid. I haven't played it (probably never will because it looks boring), but tell me: does it allow you to sneak, talk your way out of some conflicts and does the story branch (or can it be at least stretched to an extent)?

Uhh, yes to all of those. Though you can't sneak by any of the bosses, it'd be fairly retarded if you could given that they're guarding shit.

You're given pretty extensive freedom considering the setting of the game. Most of the 'missing' freedoms are simply due to where and what you are. The game doesn't stop being an RPG because you're constantly in a hostile environment and don't have any chances to sex up a gay dwarf at the local brothel.

 

[Gregz]

Gary is the Godfather of all things RPG

:respect:

 

[Excidium]

You're all losers arguing over shitty computer emulations instead of playing the real thing. Do yourselves a favor and find a P&P group.

 

[20 Eyes]

ITT:

• Immense bitterness over not owning a console and missing out on the Souls games
  Arguing over the nature of an RPG
  Debating on which of the two or three pure turn-based indie RPGs released this year sucks less

 

[Damned Registrations]

Re: u

Have you ever seen Moria, Angband, ADOM, Caves of Qud?

So Rogue doesn't count as a roguelike (or RPG) now?

You can't say 'roguelikes are rpgs because they have X' and then turn around and ignore all the roguelikes without X. By that logic, 4xes are an rpg subgenre, since those individual rpg traits have appeared in a few of them scattered around.

If Roguelikes are RPGs, Rogue is an RPG. If a game with no character creation, story, dialog, party members or much of anything besides loot, stats, and bumping into things is an RPG, the genre is pretty fucking broad. X-Com has all the RPG elements Rogue has, plus a bunch of strategy elements. Is it an RPG?

You can't define RPGs as being any game with a certain set of elements. The elements have to be taken in context of their relative weight to other elements, and the focus of the gameplay. And the gameplay in DS is exploring areas, making decisions about equipment and stats, and figuring out effective tactics for dealing with enemies. Not timing your button presses to get 30 hit combos or performing tricky platforming.

 

[Shadenuat]

You can't define RPGs as being any game with a certain set of elements. The elements have to be taken in context of their relative weight to other elements, and the focus of the gameplay.

Thats clever.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

Re: u

Have you ever seen Moria, Angband, ADOM, Caves of Qud?

So Rogue doesn't count as a roguelike (or RPG) now?

You can't say 'roguelikes are rpgs because they have X' and then turn around and ignore all the roguelikes without X. By that logic, 4xes are an rpg subgenre, since those individual rpg traits have appeared in a few of them scattered around.

If Roguelikes are RPGs, Rogue is an RPG. If a game with no character creation, story, dialog, party members or much of anything besides loot, stats, and bumping into things is an RPG, the genre is pretty fucking broad. X-Com has all the RPG elements Rogue has, plus a bunch of strategy elements. Is it an RPG?

Nigga plz. I simply provided roguelikes that have the elements of which you stated is not apparent. I was assuming that you claimed there were no roguelikes with dialog, quests, char creation, parties, because that's what you basically wrote.

And the gameplay in DS is exploring areas, making decisions about equipment and stats, and figuring out effective tactics for dealing with enemies.

And this can basically count for a fuckton of strategy games. So what are you saying really?

 

[SCO]

ITT:

• Immense bitterness over not owning a console and missing out on the Souls games
  Arguing over the nature of an RPG
  Debating on which of the two or three pure turn-based indie RPGs released this year sucks less

Aren't you forgetting the silent majority that hasn't a console and hasn't posted in the thread?

Oh right, it's flamebait anyway.

 

[Xi]

People really need to understand that theres a difference between an RPG and an ARPG.
An ARPG can't be an RPG as well. It's either one, simple as that.

It's an RPG with action combat. I fail to see your point.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

People really need to understand that theres a difference between an RPG and an ARPG.
An ARPG can't be an RPG as well. It's either one, simple as that.

It's an RPG with action combat. I fail to see your point.

No it's an action-adventure game with a few RPG elements.

 

[thesoup]

Rofl at whoever called it the best game of the decade.

I'm willing to bet half of you will forget about this game in a few years.

I'm also curious as to why is this game the new standard for RPGs. From what I've seen, this game is more of a DMC / Diablo hybrid. I haven't played it (probably never will because it looks boring), but tell me: does it allow you to sneak, talk your way out of some conflicts and does the story branch (or can it be at least stretched to an extent)?

Uhh, yes to all of those. Though you can't sneak by any of the bosses, it'd be fairly retarded if you could given that they're guarding shit.

You're given pretty extensive freedom considering the setting of the game. Most of the 'missing' freedoms are simply due to where and what you are. The game doesn't stop being an RPG because you're constantly in a hostile environment and don't have any chances to sex up a gay dwarf at the local brothel.

Well it's settled then, it's an Action RPG.
Next discussion.

 

[Xi]

People really need to understand that theres a difference between an RPG and an ARPG.
An ARPG can't be an RPG as well. It's either one, simple as that.

It's an RPG with action combat. I fail to see your point.

No it's an action-adventure game with a few RPG elements.

I guess roguelikes aren't roleplaying games either eh? New fags..... fucking new fags....

 

[Damned Registrations]

So is PST.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

People really need to understand that theres a difference between an RPG and an ARPG.
An ARPG can't be an RPG as well. It's either one, simple as that.

It's an RPG with action combat. I fail to see your point.

No it's an action-adventure game with a few RPG elements.

I guess roguelikes aren't roleplaying games either eh? New fags..... fucking new fags....

Are you seriously comparing roguelikes to an action-adventure like Dark Souls?
Or are you saying that Dark Souls is a roguelike, in which case, what?

 

[MMXI]

I guess roguelikes aren't roleplaying games either eh?

Where did this come from? I fail to see your reasoning.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Lets try to sum this up for you.

If an action game is any game with action, and action games can't also be RPGs, then daggerfall, baldurs gate, and anything with real time anything isn't an RPG.

If an RPG is only games that have XYZ qualities, you can't say that Rogue, Wizardry, and Baldurs Gate are all RPGs, since there is no characteristic shared by all of them that isn't also shared by Dark Souls, and games even further removed like X-Com.

Therefore, your definition can't exclude a game from the genre on the grounds of either of those examples.

 

[anus_pounder]

 

[thesoup]

I wouldn't call RTWP games action games. No one plays them purely RT anyway.

Action games require player skill, or rather dexterity / muscle memory, something no one needs to play Baldur's Gate or PS:T.

 

[Excidium]

Where is Jaesun?

 

[MMXI]

I don't have the energy for such a discussion right now so I'll sit back and...

 

[Damned Registrations]

I wouldn't call RTWP games action games. No one plays them purely RT anyway.

Action games require player skill, or rather dexterity / muscle memory, something no one needs to play Baldur's Gate or PS:T.

'Require skill' is purely subjective. Require for what? Beating the game? Beating it quickly? Enjoying it? In one attempt? Without grinding?

And how much skill? Is it skillful if I can pause on any round of combat I want in baldur's gate? What if I fuck it up half the time? Is that still skillful? What if I can run around like a complete ass with a ranged weapon and kite things to death? Is that skilled enough to be called skill, or do I need to be able to do that without boots of speed? How about aiming fireballs, what if my aim is so bad I miss targets half the time? What if it's so good I can rape everything with fireballs and never worry about hitting myself, even when they're in melee? Is that not an advantage?

How about my skill at pixel hunting? Does it require skill to find a door that way? How about secret passages? What about that stupid ring of wizardry between the rocks? You can't say the game doesn't require any skill. You can say that clicking on most humanoid creatures doesn't require any skill. You can say that finding some stupid 2 pixel secret does. But the game as a whole has too many variations within it to make such a statement. Same thing with saying that action games are those that 'require skill'. Or dexterity or whatever the fuck you want.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS LOLLOLOL WHAT IS AN RPG LOLOLLOLOL

THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DKS AND DS IS THAT ONE HAS MORE DETAILED STORY AND WORSE COMBAT MECHANICS BUT BROS I LOVED BOTH

BROS I DONT UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM HERE PCTARDS ONLY PLAY CONSOLE PORTS FOR THE MOST PART THEY SKIP REAL CRPGS LIKE KOTC BECAUSE THE GRAPHICS ARE BAD