Interview Brian Fargo talks about the Wasteland 2 beta at Eurogamer

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Maybe it is a language barrier but what does it mean to "fail" in "comparison" to some other thing?

Fargo's own words. "No two playthroughs will be identical". "best reactivity evah" {paraphrasing here"
So it fails the standards Fargo's Mouth set. Did Fargo promise jsut a TB iso psot apocalyptic cRPG? Nope, he promised a lot mroe than that.

That reads like gibberish.

To a brown nosing fanboy, yes.

It is like saying hamburger is a "failure" compared to a good bone-in ribeye.

It is if the hamburger is promised to have the best kobe beef in its patty, but gives shitty McDonald grade "meat".

It makes no goddamn sense.

Only if you purposely ignore everything Fargo says and cannot into English.

You can say that it maybe it isn't as good, or that you prefer the ribeye,

It is a failure allright. By the standards Fargo himself has set. We were promised a quality kobe beef in the burger, and delivered shitty fast food crap in the beta.

but calling it a "failure" is an abuse of language.

You cannot into language it seems.

I repeat: it makes no goddamn sense.

Yes, keep on pumping those logical fallacies, while ignoring the context.

 

[Decado]

Maybe it is a language barrier but what does it mean to "fail" in "comparison" to some other thing?

Fargo's own words. "No two playthroughs will be identical". "best reactivity evah" {paraphrasing here"
So it fails the standards Fargo's Mouth set. Did Fargo promise jsut a TB iso psot apocalyptic cRPG? Nope, he promised a lot mroe than that.

Well the problem here is that your "paraphrase" is basically a lie. If you are upset that the CEO of a game company is using common marketing jargon to sell his game, I have to wonder how old you are. Further, how do you know he hasn't "delivered" when the game isn't even fucking done?

That reads like gibberish.

To a brown nosing fanboy, yes.

This is how I know I'm wasting my time. I swear to god, I'm arguing with 13 year olds.

 

[Decado]

Everyone who disagrees with a criticism is a "fanboy," my god.

 

[tuluse]

I wonder if all of this shit-talking is genuine, or if people feel backed into a corner because they came in heavy with the negativity at the earlier stages and now they don't want to back down.

Which shit talk specifically? A couple retards making inane comments or all the real criticism and then anger when hearing marketing speak which doesn't match reality?

The reality is, Fargo and Company have created a fucking isometric, tactical, turn-based, grid-based, stat-heavy game in 2014. They did it with a laughably small budget, and almost totally reliant on the goodwill of a bunch of old school gamers and grognards who fueled the company vision with their own nostalgia. That's an accomplishment right there. Even if the game isn't perfect, getting this type of game back on the map is already a huge success.

The reality is that codex members gave Fargo a lot of money because of this. That's an accomplishment right there. Even if we bitch because the game isn't actually fun or good.

Having said all that, the fact that they are adding huge amounts of content like they have been (for example, adding stances or aimed shots this late in the process) means these motherfuckers are serious business. They are not playing around. I have every confidence they are going to deliver a good game. Maybe not the next classic, not the next Planescape, not the next FO1, okay sure. Fine. But I'm having a hard time believing this is going to be a failure. It's already not a failure, by any way you care to measure the concept of failure.

If it fails to be a good game, it's a failure.

I'm more on the wait and see bus than many around here, and I think it could end up being a good game, but it is not one yet. Until it is, I will happily bitch away.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

If you are upset that the CEO of a game company is using common marketing jargon to sell his game, I have to wonder how old you are.

You seem the one butthurt over calling shit shit. And isn't that the point we are making? Fargo is a sleazy salesman. he overpromised, hence his game will underdeliver.

Further, how do you know he hasn't "delivered" when the game isn't even fucking done?

He hasn't delivered in the beta, yet.

This is how I know I'm wasting my time. I swear to god, I'm arguing with 13 year olds.

baiting hiver tactic, and crying oh noes look at the meanies, won't work with everyone.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

I wonder if all of this shit-talking is genuine, or if people feel backed into a corner because they came in heavy with the negativity at the earlier stages and now they don't want to back down.

Which shit talk specifically? A couple retards making inane comments or all the real criticism and then anger when hearing marketing speak which doesn't match reality?

The reality is, Fargo and Company have created a fucking isometric, tactical, turn-based, grid-based, stat-heavy game in 2014. They did it with a laughably small budget, and almost totally reliant on the goodwill of a bunch of old school gamers and grognards who fueled the company vision with their own nostalgia. That's an accomplishment right there. Even if the game isn't perfect, getting this type of game back on the map is already a huge success.

The reality is that codex members gave Fargo a lot of money because of this. That's an accomplishment right there. Even if we bitch because the game isn't actually fun or good.

Having said all that, the fact that they are adding huge amounts of content like they have been (for example, adding stances or aimed shots this late in the process) means these motherfuckers are serious business. They are not playing around. I have every confidence they are going to deliver a good game. Maybe not the next classic, not the next Planescape, not the next FO1, okay sure. Fine. But I'm having a hard time believing this is going to be a failure. It's already not a failure, by any way you care to measure the concept of failure.

If it fails to be a good game, it's a failure.

I'm more on the wait and see bus than many around here, and I think it could end up being a good game, but it is not one yet. Until it is, I will happily bitch away.

Sorry, inXile and Decado, but this post is correct and really is the final word on the subject. Fuck off until then, kbye.

 

[hiver]

So far, I've learned that you are deathly afraid of being embarrassed on a message board,

Telepathically, i guess?

Deathly afraid!!! - even.

Im sure most of posters here will confirm thats obviously true.

and you apparently view internet discussions as some kind real-life confrontation.

i do? has that also come to your brain telepathically or ... you actually have something to support that empty statement? a pm from infinitron maybe?

Another empty invented stupid statement in a two page long blatant stupid attempts of evasion of this simple question:

"None of which has been shown so far, so... what would be the exact reason to back down from negative critiques (which are the only thing that made InXile do anything different, and to try better, btw)?"

Also, you have a tendency to congratulate yourself.

where exactly?
You do have some quotes to prove that, right? otherwise... it would have to mean you just pulled it out of your stupid little squeaky crying asshole, in blatant attempt to make yourself look better by falsely taking a higher moral ground.


Which... you see, is the reason why exactly im calling you a simplistic stupid laughable shit.
Because you are.

not because you managed to make me "angry"... dumbfuck.
As if that makes any kind of goddamn difference, even if it were true, to the actual question and your inability to answer it in any meaningful way.

Its nothing else then your little ego whispering to you, telling you fairytales where you get to feel good, despite being the stupid incoherent shitstain.

these motherfuckers are serious business. They are not playing around.

Everyone who disagrees with a criticism is a "fanboy," my god.

Of course not. Someone who says he disagrees but repeatedly fails to explain why exactly, (nice going there management, suck someones ass a bit more would you?), instead just throwing out simplistic blatant fallacies and strawmans worthy of a 13 old kid - is not just a fanboy, he is a stupid laughable shit.

The only thing you actually mentioned as any kind of relevant actual fact is those few basic features of the game, as they were presented in the first pitch, which has been removed as an argument - on why exactly the last version of beta is anywhere near good - two pages back.

and again, by tuluse, just above, for good measure.

Since then, youve just been splurging stupid incoherent shit that you simply pull out of your ass and then pretend its true.


Which makes you a triple stupid laughable shit automatically.
No, its not double. Trust me.

 

[Decado]

I wonder if all of this shit-talking is genuine, or if people feel backed into a corner because they came in heavy with the negativity at the earlier stages and now they don't want to back down.

Which shit talk specifically? A couple retards making inane comments or all the real criticism and then anger when hearing marketing speak which doesn't match reality?

The reality is, Fargo and Company have created a fucking isometric, tactical, turn-based, grid-based, stat-heavy game in 2014. They did it with a laughably small budget, and almost totally reliant on the goodwill of a bunch of old school gamers and grognards who fueled the company vision with their own nostalgia. That's an accomplishment right there. Even if the game isn't perfect, getting this type of game back on the map is already a huge success.

The reality is that codex members gave Fargo a lot of money because of this. That's an accomplishment right there. Even if we bitch because the game isn't actually fun or good.

Having said all that, the fact that they are adding huge amounts of content like they have been (for example, adding stances or aimed shots this late in the process) means these motherfuckers are serious business. They are not playing around. I have every confidence they are going to deliver a good game. Maybe not the next classic, not the next Planescape, not the next FO1, okay sure. Fine. But I'm having a hard time believing this is going to be a failure. It's already not a failure, by any way you care to measure the concept of failure.

If it fails to be a good game, it's a failure.

I'm more on the wait and see bus than many around here, and I think it could end up being a good game, but it is not one yet. Until it is, I will happily bitch away.

You guys will notice that I haven't made many specific comments about the gameplay. I think it is pretty good, but it could be a lot better. In fact, I think some parts of the game are hugely disappointing, especially the somewhat bare C&C options. I haven't touched the beta since way back when, since I don't like playing betas very much. Like you, I think the game could easily go either way.

What is frustrating is seeing otherwise intelligent dudes lose their shit over this. As you say, it is not a good game yet. I feel like 90% of this is because it isn't done yet. I swear, for as valuable as Fargo finds this whole process, I think he has done a fair amount of damage to his reputation, and to InXiile's, by letting people get a hold of the game as early as he did. I think a large segment of the beta crowd doesn't know what a fucking beta is.

As far as people calling me a "fanboy," I guess I have to point out that the extent of my involvement with this project was a small donation, and my helping out with the veteran's advisory panel stuff. That's it. I'm not active on the WL2 forums. I haven't played the beta much beyond the first release, though I have tinkered with it. But I'm not on the forums rah-rahing this game. If it ends up as a bad game, I will be disappointed. But that's about it. My criticisms are probably only few degrees off from most posters' here, but because this is the Codex, people assume they're in a death struggle with a Nazi death machine, or some crazy thing. I dunno, some motherfuckers here have anger issues. I've been coming to the Codex for a long, long time and I think I have rarely seen such a collection of strung out, try hard crybabbies (not you).

Finally, the reason that Fargo's words don't have me shitting my pants in nerd rage is because:

1) He is not stupid
2) Marketing is marketing, and it is the same everywhere.

Really, though, the first one is the most important. The guy has basically leveraged his entire legacy as a developer on this one project. He would have to be incredibly dumb and crazy to start telling lies about his product, knowing that if it fails to deliver, he will likely end up in the poorhouse. I mean, he has every reason to not lie about this game, and every reason to deliver on what he is promising, because if he doesn't, that's it. There will be no WL3. He's got to know this. He and his team have got to understand how much is riding on them getting this right. So I can't believe the guy is just going to get on his soapbox and start telling lies, or over-selling his product.

When it comes to a CEO talking like a marketer? Well, that's just the way it goes. Claiming that "no two games will play the same!" as some other yahoo here recently "paraphrased" is a theme that every CRPG developer has tried to cough up since the dawn of video game marketing. Practically every CRPG game makes this claim. He is saying shit like that because he knows that there are likely first-time CRPG players looking at WL2. What might seem normal to a Codex poster is a fresh and exciting thing to a kid who has only ever played Call of Duty. What you guys seem to think is overselling strikes me as him using normal marketing approaches to get people interested in his game. When he goes on Eurogamer to hype up WL2, he is not talking to you, me, or any other posters on the Codex. He is talking to the people who might have never played a CRPG. The idea, therefore, that "no two games will play the same" is not aimed to make you believe some crazy bullshit, but to get the idea across to a different target market.

 

[Excidium]

damagecontrol.jpg

 

[Decado]

Nah.

ETA: I honestly have a different opinion than most people here, and that's fine. "Damage control" would imply I gave a shit if people disagreed with me. As I said earlier in this thread, arguing with dudes about this shit ends up being an argument about taste and expectation, and nobody ever wins those.

 

[Decado]

Hiver, that post of yours would have been more convincing had you not edited it to add a gif. Why do I get the feeling that you practice your internet burns in the shower?

 

[hiver]

im in no hurry. youre laughable stupidity isnt going anywhere.
besides, ive just came from outside. nicely drunk.

What is frustrating is seeing otherwise intelligent dudes lose their shit over this.

nobody gives a fuck whats frustrating for you, and if you had a brain you wouldnt admit your actual motivation like this. too late now.

nobody is loosing any shit except you moron, either.

I think a large segment of the beta crowd doesn't know what a fucking beta is.

what large segment and how do you know this, really?

I guess I have to point out that the extent of my involvement with this project was a small donation, and my helping out with the veteran's advisory panel stuff.

heh... so, you actually gave less money then most of us here, while screaming how its GOING to be good - just because you think so - while again failing to answer a single simple question asking you to support those statements with anything.


and now that anything or at least something is this:

I think some parts of the game are hugely disappointing, especially the somewhat bare C&C options. I haven't touched the beta since way back when, since I don't like playing betas very much.

while this could be called a cherry on top of this pile of stupid incoherent shit you splurged:

Like you, I think the game could easily go either way.

vs

As you say, it is not a good game yet.

vs

I have every confidence they are going to deliver a good game.

BRAINS - How to they fucking work?

 

[Decado]

I have confidence they will deliver a good game. I also acknowledge it could go the other way.

I won't insult anyone else by claiming this is a language barrier issue. Instead I'll just go with my normal hypothesis that you are a moron.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

im in no hurry. youre laughable stupidity isnt going anywhere.
besides, ive just came from outside. nicely drunk.

What is frustrating is seeing otherwise intelligent dudes lose their shit over this.

nobody gives a fuck whats frustrating for you, and if you had a brain you wouldnt admit your actual motivation like this. too late now.

nobody is loosing any shit except you moron, either.

I think a large segment of the beta crowd doesn't know what a fucking beta is.

what large segment and how do you know this, really?

I guess I have to point out that the extent of my involvement with this project was a small donation, and my helping out with the veteran's advisory panel stuff.

heh... so, you actually gave less money then most of us here, while screaming how its GOING to be good - just because you think so - while again failing to answer a single simple question asking you to support those statements with anything.


and now that anything or at least something is this:

I think some parts of the game are hugely disappointing, especially the somewhat bare C&C options. I haven't touched the beta since way back when, since I don't like playing betas very much.

while this could be called a cherry on top of this pile of stupid incoherent shit you splurged:

Like you, I think the game could easily go either way.

vs

As you say, it is not a good game yet.

vs

I have every confidence they are going to deliver a good game.

BRAINS - How to they fucking work?

I think decado is lubing up for round 2 after the WL2 beta update. his reply to tuluse is essentially "It is not a good game. Heck it is kinda bad. But plz don't call it shit guys. you are hurting my feelings."

 

[Decado]

If I end up being wrong about this game I will go "Well, guess I was wrong!" and then get on with my life. I will even say it on the Codex. Really, you seem to crediting me with having invested way more into this than I actually have. The idea that anybody would involve their ego in some posts about a game in beta strikes me as completely insane. Though it does give me a good idea of who I am talking to.

 

[Awakened_Yeti]

I had a feeling this thread would degrade into a defense of battered pride the moment I saw Decado's post. Thanks Decado.

have a donut, chief

 

[Lhynn]

Decado Stop being an apologetic fanboy and judge the game by its own merits, anything fargo says is just words in the wind so you should treat them as such.
I honestly didnt think the game was that bad, a bit banal and boring yes (only real turd was map design, and the railroading in a supposed open world was kinda disgusting), but wasnt expecting much a lot more from an early version, but these guys were, they were expecting a lot more, and those expectations were not met, so now the criticism rains down because they want to make sure their investment pays off. A lot of them have put down very generous amount of money, they have invested a lot of time and energy in this.

In the end the codex dont care about words or hype or shit like that, not at this stage anyway. You know all of this, you must know it better than me, and if you do, then why the fuck are you even arguing with them over it? Especially with hiver, jesus fucking christ.

 

[hiver]

I dunno, some motherfuckers here have anger issues.

because this is the Codex, people assume they're in a death struggle with a Nazi death machine, or some crazy thing.

I've been coming to the Codex for a long, long time and I think I have rarely seen such a collection of strung out, try hard crybabbies (not you).

Finally, the reason that Fargo's words don't have me shitting my pants in nerd rage

How does it feel now?

Spoiler

(guys, this is too fucking easy and i do appreciate this not being some high achievement, rather something akin to whipping a brain damaged person, but he did ask for it, so many times. fair is fair)

He would have to be incredibly dumb and crazy to start telling lies about his product,

Who mentioned Fargo lying? Did you loose yourself in some alternate reality?

When it comes to a CEO talking like a marketer? Well, that's just the way it goes. Claiming that "no two games will play the same!" as some other yahoo here recently "paraphrased" is a theme that every CRPG developer has tried to cough up since the dawn of video game marketing. Practically every CRPG game makes this claim. He is saying shit like that because he knows that there are likely first-time CRPG players looking at WL2. What might seem normal to a Codex poster is a fresh and exciting thing to a kid who has only ever played Call of Duty. What you guys seem to think is overselling strikes me as him using normal marketing approaches to get people interested in his game. When he goes on Eurogamer to hype up WL2, he is not talking to you, me, or any other posters on the Codex. He is talking to the people who might have never played a CRPG. The idea, therefore, that "no two games will play the same" is not aimed to make you believe some crazy bullshit, but to get the idea across to a different target market.

mhhh.... so good. digs hole himself and then jumps in right on the head.


@BrotherNone

Care to clue in the imbecile about some specific things your boss said about targeting other markets and players who never played a CRPG in their life?

 

[hiver]

I think decado is lubing up for round 2 after the WL2 beta update. his reply to tuluse is essentially "It is not a good game. Heck it is kinda bad. But plz don't call it shit guys. you are hurting my feelings."

Well, that and the fact he cannot distinguish between "us" talking about and criticizing the beta we got and played - while he is talking about some future hypothetical version of the game... thats going to be great, while he thinks it might go both ways, while now itsa not good, while... who the fuck really knows....

 

[Dokkalfar]

That's even worse, competing with an almost 20 year old game, lool..

Which he will fail. Miserably.

WL2 already has a head start on Fallout by sheer virtue of being able to create a party of characters at game start, instead of being force-fed a single pre-set "Vault Dweller" role and only being able to control ONE character, the rest being controlled by dumbass AI scripts.

Fallout had some good interactions, quests and dialogue, but on the minute-to-minute basis it was boring as hell, mostly due to only being able to control one character, I can't believe any designers would ever think that's a good idea. Then again this is the same board which thinks single-character games like Ultima Underworld aren't trash.

Wasteland 2 also has way better use for skills than Fallout did, and that's only the beta, pretty much all the skills in WL2 get used frequently in the beta, with a few exceptions being Alarm Disarm, which might be patched in (made no sense that Kebekkah had no alarms on the Golden Spike warehouse). And considering that WL2 has some 40 skills while FO had far less, this is quite an accomplishment.

In comparison to Fallout, you rarely use skills at all, most of them are just flat out useless like Gambling or Outdoorsman or just don't even work properly like Sneak. The Codex holds Fallout up like some kind of masterpiece when it reality it's a bit of a disaster as a game and as a piece of software (game is bugged to hell and required TeamX patch to function correctly). About the only thing that seemed to really work in Fallout was Lockpick and the death sprites.

No idea why you guys keep worshiping Fallout when in reality it's a tiny little "game" that one can finish in a few hours, a single sitting. Is that really value for money. Your average browser game has more content than Fallout.

Underrail, which is a Fallout-like in development, has more frequent and varied skill use and better mechanics than Fallout by a mile. But I guess as usual Codex excuse is "MAH C&C AND STORY!", even when the core mechanics are boring and the gameplay is even more boring.

Sorry the only chance that Fallout would have of beating WL2 is for the Black Isle employees to go back in time and make it fully party based with full party creation at game start.

 

[Onholyservicebound]

I had a feeling this thread would degrade into a defense of battered pride the moment I saw Decado's post. Thanks Decado.

have a donut, chief

How could I possibly deny such an ambiguous offer .

 

[hiver]

oh yeah, i had a feeling i saw one more

It's already not a failure, by any way you care to measure the concept of failure.

vs

As you say, it is not a good game yet.

 

[Azrael the cat]

Maybe it is a language barrier but what does it mean to "fail" in "comparison" to some other thing?

Fargo's own words. "No two playthroughs will be identical". "best reactivity evah" {paraphrasing here"
So it fails the standards Fargo's Mouth set. Did Fargo promise jsut a TB iso psot apocalyptic cRPG? Nope, he promised a lot mroe than that.

That reads like gibberish.

To a brown nosing fanboy, yes.

It is like saying hamburger is a "failure" compared to a good bone-in ribeye.

It is if the hamburger is promised to have the best kobe beef in its patty, but gives shitty McDonald grade "meat".

It makes no goddamn sense.

Only if you purposely ignore everything Fargo says and cannot into English.

You can say that it maybe it isn't as good, or that you prefer the ribeye,

It is a failure allright. By the standards Fargo himself has set. We were promised a quality kobe beef in the burger, and delivered shitty fast food crap in the beta.

but calling it a "failure" is an abuse of language.

You cannot into language it seems.

I repeat: it makes no goddamn sense.

Yes, keep on pumping those logical fallacies, while ignoring the context.

I pretty much just ignore all the marketing material and judge a game by whether I enjoy it. I'm surprised that you still listen to that stuff.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

I pretty much just ignore all the marketing material and judge a game by whether I enjoy it. I'm surprised that you still listen to that stuff.

On its own, its p. banal and boring game with shit map design, hamfisted CnC and horrible railroading.

But anytime you try to discuss it, Fargo's Buttboys go "but fargo said this will improve guise. plz stop hurting our feelings. its only beta" and try to deflect any actual criticism...

 

[felipepepe]

So, apparently everyone here agrees that the beta doesn't deliver, and that Fargo over-promises and is no more than a marketing salesman... yet some of you still believe that it will magically get better? Based on more of his promises?