Breakable items, is it ever a good idea?

[deuxhero]

The only use I have seen where it wasn't just "go to town, pay guy to fix it" was the Fire Emblem games, and only because they treated weapon supply as a resource (Finite gold, definite uses (35/35), limited inventory space, and no repairs period) instead of a "get best you can find". This does not really seem possible to implement in a single person focused cRPG.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Rarely, maybe if it affects weapon selection. Do I specialize in the reliable, less powerful rifle or the powerful, prone to jamming and breaking one? For things like this I don't like gradual deteoriation like in Beth games, but random chance like, say, 1% chance of jamming every shot.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

It can be good for suspense and strategy; If you come across a creature that is known break weapons, suddenly you are thinking as quick as you can about how to deal with it and not lose your gear.

It can also serve as a money sink depending on how it is used.

 

[deuxhero]

Telling everyone to stay behind and have worthless mutt/throwing weapons/magic do the attack when I encounter a golem in Arcanum wasn't that exciting (though it may just have been Arcanum's combat).

 

[DriacKin]

It can be good for suspense and strategy;

More like: It can result in a lot of quick-loading every time your super +43 sword of uberness breakes and you'll just reload the fight so you don't lose your gear.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

maybe you could have the swords get blunt and then you need a stone (with skill) to resharpen or a friendly blacksmith,

It really all depends how it is done, if the RPG is supposed to have more realism than the average then it could work.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

It can be good for suspense and strategy;

More like: It can result in a lot of quick-loading every time your super +43 sword of uberness brakes and you'll just reload the fight so you don't lose your gear.

Maybe in todays Fisher Price RPG games, but way back when, after fighting a major battle for half an hour, you tend to think about the options a bit more; and also start thinking about how to handle such things in future instead of "oh I don't care, I will just reload".

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor]

I thought the Fallout 3 concept was good, though not well balanced.

 

[Yeesh]

I think the way Jagged Alliance 2 handled weapon degradation, chance of jamming, and repair really added to the game, which is funny because my initial gut feeling on this topic is that repairing shit is just busy work.

On the other hand, if you're talking about a small random chance of a sword just breaking every once in a while, fuck that. The more arbitrary a loss is (and the loss of your favorite weapon could be a huge one), the more inclined I am to roll my eyes and reload.

But then, despite my advanced age, I'm probably what's wrong with gamers these days.

 

[Redeye]

Item damage/destruction is a great idea.

Especially if there are hidden files/file sections that count reloads and assign xp penalties if there are more than 3 in a 24 hour period.
Perhaps allow 3 more that are "Save and Quit".
Or only allow the 3 "save and quit" in a 24 hour period.

The game should also keep track of item destruction by setting a rarity/value variable in the hidden file/section. If a reload occurs within a randomly determined 15-200 seconds after a high value item is destroyed, the xp penalties are increased, perhaps by a factor based on the value of the item or items.

Together with food, water, pain, and fatigue meters, the item destruction reload penalty will greatly enhance the gaming experience.

Oh, and bodies of fallen comrades should be full weight and take up a lot of Tetris inventory space.
I would allow rotating items in the inventory to help them fit.

Also, there should be aging and scars and magical healing/ressurection should cause pain and fatigue and perhaps permanent and/or semi-permanent stat loss.
Ressurection should cause some xp penalty, but the xp should also be regained at a faster rate because the character gets flashes of insight/unblocks chunks of lost memory.

Oh, and sleep requirements, including setting up guards and assigning watch rotations. Perhaps have every campsite be like a little fort, with positioning of guards, traps, 8-hour+ duration summons, etc. being a sort of minigame.

"Fantasy Adventure Simulator"

You know you want it!

 

[Damned Registrations]

I liked the idea in Valkyrie Profile, though it made little difference due to low difficulty. But basically, there were certain extremely powerful weapons, generally made for slaying a specific creature type (Dragons, birds, mages, whatever...) that had a significant chance of breaking. Yeah technically you can savescum to keep them around forever, but you can do that to win the battles without the item anyways.

Basically it made the weapons function as a limited special resource with uncertain supply. So you couldn't just use it whenever the fuck, but it'd always make a big difference in at least one more fight if you still had it. Sort of the fantasy equivalent of rocket ammo in a fps.

Shining in the Darkness (Old dungeon crawler on the genesis) had some usable items with chances to break too, but their effects were generally too weak to feel precious. They were more like collectable things you stashed away since they'd break if you used them, couldn't be replaced, and their effects could be replicated with some MP you could get from magic rings that COULD be replaced. Would have been good if you had more inventory space and the effects were more useful.

 

[DraQ]

Item damage/destruction is a great idea.

Especially if there are hidden files/file sections that count reloads and assign xp penalties if there are more than 3 in a 24 hour period.
Perhaps allow 3 more that are "Save and Quit".
Or only allow the 3 "save and quit" in a 24 hour period.

The game should also keep track of item destruction by setting a rarity/value variable in the hidden file/section. If a reload occurs within a randomly determined 15-200 seconds after a high value item is destroyed, the xp penalties are increased, perhaps by a factor based on the value of the item or items.

Together with food, water, pain, and fatigue meters, the item destruction reload penalty will greatly enhance the gaming experience.

Oh, and bodies of fallen comrades should be full weight and take up a lot of Tetris inventory space.
I would allow rotating items in the inventory to help them fit.

Also, there should be aging and scars and magical healing/ressurection should cause pain and fatigue and perhaps permanent and/or semi-permanent stat loss.
Ressurection should cause some xp penalty, but the xp should also be regained at a faster rate because the character gets flashes of insight/unblocks chunks of lost memory.

Oh, and sleep requirements, including setting up guards and assigning watch rotations. Perhaps have every campsite be like a little fort, with positioning of guards, traps, 8-hour+ duration summons, etc. being a sort of minigame.

"Fantasy Adventure Simulator"

You know you want it!

After reading to the end of your post I started suspecting that you might be sarcastic, which saddened me a bit.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Gradual degradation of an item is impossible to execute in a CRPG (can be done in PnP) without it being utterly gay.

The only workable solution is make it like Jagged Alliance 2 did, or just have jammings and other trouble as critical failures.

 

[Redeye]

Item damage/destruction is a great idea.

Especially if there are hidden files/file sections that count reloads and assign xp penalties if there are more than 3 in a 24 hour period.
Perhaps allow 3 more that are "Save and Quit".
Or only allow the 3 "save and quit" in a 24 hour period.

The game should also keep track of item destruction by setting a rarity/value variable in the hidden file/section. If a reload occurs within a randomly determined 15-200 seconds after a high value item is destroyed, the xp penalties are increased, perhaps by a factor based on the value of the item or items.

Together with food, water, pain, and fatigue meters, the item destruction reload penalty will greatly enhance the gaming experience.

Oh, and bodies of fallen comrades should be full weight and take up a lot of Tetris inventory space.
I would allow rotating items in the inventory to help them fit.

Also, there should be aging and scars and magical healing/ressurection should cause pain and fatigue and perhaps permanent and/or semi-permanent stat loss.
Ressurection should cause some xp penalty, but the xp should also be regained at a faster rate because the character gets flashes of insight/unblocks chunks of lost memory.

Oh, and sleep requirements, including setting up guards and assigning watch rotations. Perhaps have every campsite be like a little fort, with positioning of guards, traps, 8-hour+ duration summons, etc. being a sort of minigame.

"Fantasy Adventure Simulator"

You know you want it!

After reading to the end of your post I started suspecting that you might be sarcastic, which saddened me a bit.

I want it.
I just wrote it with a sarcastic flavor because it's funnier that way.

 

[Elwro]

Degrading (not just binary broken/not-broken status) was done quite well in Daggerfall iirc. And repairing items could take a few days, so you couldn't repair your weapon if you wanted to use it in a quest with a narrow time limit.

And (version 2.191 iirc) magical items couldn't be repaired without the "magicrepair 1" line in Z.CFG; this made them a more precious commodity.

 

[Jeff Graw]

Gradually degrading weapons is fine. The only problem is that degradation in most games is anything but gradual, like your equipment was made out of butter or something.

 

[DraQ]

Combining very slow degradation and random, stat and circumstance (armour gets pierced, you tried to open very solid chest with your dagger, etc.) dependant, chance to damage or outright break an item would be good.

 

[bhlaab]

I'm fine with gradual degradation

 

[IlkuWarrior]

I think it would make sense in some detailed crafting system.

As in: you're making a gun, and you have the choice of making it more powerful, at the cost of durabilty, or vice versa, etc...

 

[Alex]

This is a feature that requires a little thought before being implemented. Having to replace equipment can be seem as a simple money (and time) dump. For example, when I played Diablo, the only purpose of repairing equipment seemed to be to force me to donate a small part of my loot to the blacksmith (except in the very beginning when damaged equipment actually could give you headache). Maybe it was actually important in defining how the economy worked, determining that the loot hauls shouldn't be too short or something, but it still wasn't a memorable feature.

If you want to make breakable items an important part of the rpg, you should take some precautions. For example, it should be economically inviable for the player to always have everything brand new. If items degrade, then have it so that finding a half degraded item is still a good thing. Make repairing things actually costly. Money doesn't need to be the only resource here. In a post apocalyptic RPG, you might need leather to repair armor, for example. Also, make items in bad conditions actually work differently. Some people already mentioned the jamming weapons of Jagged Alliance. It is important that this is shown to the player, so that using weary items is significantly different from using brand new items.

Finally, note that having degradable items as an important part of your game will give a survival tone to your game. It probably would be a good idea to take and use the tone in the story part of the game.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Another type of item breaking to look at is roguelikes. Rustmonsters, fire traps, acid breathing dragons, etc. in Nethack can turn your ascension kit into dust in a hurry, and if not dust, force you to rummage around for some relatively scare enchanting scrolls and the like.

Like a lot of things, the concept of breakable items is just fine, it just doesn't work well in the softie RPGs made these days where you can save every 30 seconds and buy everything you see by default. With any actual difficulty in the game items breaking becomes significant instead of a minor drain to your cashflow or a cause for a 30 second reload.

 

[deuxhero]

Yeah, but that's nethack. It's meant to be "fun" because it is so unforgiving.

Gradually degrading weapons is fine. The only problem is that degradation in most games is anything but gradual, like your equipment was made out of butter or something.

Perhaps bronze? I saw a bronze sword on Lock and Load and it had the shape of the target in it after less than half a dozen hits.

 

[DraQ]

This is a feature that requires a little thought before being implemented. Having to replace equipment can be seem as a simple money (and time) dump. For example, when I played Diablo, the only purpose of repairing equipment seemed to be to force me to donate a small part of my loot to the blacksmith (except in the very beginning when damaged equipment actually could give you headache).

That's potentially a damn good reason. RPGs need money sinks, because otherwise you will eventually become obscenely rich.

If you want to make breakable items an important part of the rpg, you should take some precautions. For example, it should be economically inviable for the player to always have everything brand new. If items degrade, then have it so that finding a half degraded item is still a good thing. Make repairing things actually costly. Money doesn't need to be the only resource here. In a post apocalyptic RPG, you might need leather to repair armor, for example. Also, make items in bad conditions actually work differently. Some people already mentioned the jamming weapons of Jagged Alliance. It is important that this is shown to the player, so that using weary items is significantly different from using brand new items.

Finally, note that having degradable items as an important part of your game will give a survival tone to your game. It probably would be a good idea to take and use the tone in the story part of the game.

YES!

Like a lot of things, the concept of breakable items is just fine, it just doesn't work well in the softie RPGs made these days where you can save every 30 seconds and buy everything you see by default. With any actual difficulty in the game items breaking becomes significant instead of a minor drain to your cashflow or a cause for a 30 second reload.

That's because of sucky design and balance, not reloads. While some non-transparent reload deterrent might be desirable, the freedom of reloading didn't really help me in Daggerfall when I had to run out of the dungeon and ride towards the nearest temple after catching a nasty disease (and you didn't know that until it was too late in DF), eventually ending up selling my cool new cuirass to afford healing (the alternative was death in a day or two) - it was fucking awesome.

 

[deuxhero]

I liked Jagged Alliance because it felt like maintenance (have a guy repair during your downtime when the rest of your squad are training people/healing) rather than "My weapons durability is low, *hammer* *hammer* *hammer*."

 

[zenbitz]

I think it's tricky. There has to be a POINT to it, and replacements have to be expensive.

I think it's generally pointless - unless you are really trying to model improvised weaponry or fragile equipment. A sword that has a 0.1% chance of breaking every time it hit armor is going to break too rarely. It will either be of no consequence (just reload or pull your 2nd sword) or it will be fatal (reload).

It's "realistic" (I suppose) but unnecessary. Like making you go to the bathroom.

Having stuff break only makes sense if it breaks A LOT. Such that there is some decision to be made... "do I fire my unreliable pistol, or use my trusty machete?"

Having "ablative" type armor - which basically only takes 1 or a few blows before disintegrating makes some amount of sense - as long as there isn't too much combat in the game that requires it. It's basically like a health pack/healing potion - a resource you might need once in a while.

Not that I am a big fan of health packs.