From Software Bloodborne. Discuss or die!

[Hobo Elf]

Wibbly wobbly setting that makes no sense, I think we can all agree on this. I bet Silva is putting more time and effort into thinking how this shit works than Miyazaki ever did. In any case I have gotten the Beast Claw weapon along with the Beast's Embrace rune to transform myself into a werewolf. Silva will be happy to know that the move set is exactly the same as the NPC you fight in the DLC area. Even the silly air dash attack. It seems pretty solid, all in all. The attacks look cool, are pretty fast AND powerful. Stamina consumption is also very low with the Beast Claw so you can easily just rip into your enemies without getting tired. The special move with the alternative mode is your character letting out a beastly howl which increases your Beasthood gauge, meaning that you can buff your damage at the expense of defense for a little bit. You can keep spamming the howl to increase the duration. With a non upgraded Beast Claw I did 60~ damage with a basic attack and 90~ after I used the howl move, so it's bretty gud. I'm sure this will be a fun playstyle, but it's going to take you a while to get everything you need, if you want to start up a new character who is specifically intended for this style. They really cocked up the item placements in this game.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Finished my second playthrough. Some random thoughts:

- Blood Vials are dumb. Not as dumb as grass in DeS, as they actually drop from a decent selection of enemies. Still dumb though.
- Charged R2s are a nice addition and the way backstabs work is a massive improvement over Souls. Boggles the mind why they didn't use that in DS3.
- Runes are just rings which you can't swap on the fly and with more boring effects.
- Blood gems are pointless complexity and busywork in that they generally require zero thought to slot correctly, just take time to scroll through the list. Could've just stuck with infusions.
- Logarius, Gascoigne and Shades still the only enjoyable bosses in the base game. Logarius is the only challenging one as well, and the only one I died to. In the DLC, Ludwig and Laurence are cheap shit, Orphan still best boss in the game.
- One interesting thing is that some areas have background music, which is a first for Souls games. And it works really well too, especially in Upper Cathedral Ward.
- Hunter's Dream is probably the best executed "hub area disconnected from the rest of the game world" in all the games. The fact that it's small, only has two NPCs in it, and its tranquility being such a contrast to the violent and blood-soaked outside world, all make it feel cosy and intimate. Much better than the Nexus or DS3 Firelink, which were too big and full of stuff. Thank god for not having to interact with NPCs to do weapon upgrades and shit.
- Funny thing, I thought the intro cinematic would appear after starting a new game, just like it did in other Souls games, and ended up skipping it twice. I was about to praise the game for not having it, as the short segment with the blood transfusion and subsequent vision works perfectly as an introduction in my opinion. Then I watched the actual intro on youtube, and it's disappointingly generic. DS2 intro is still best.

Don't think I'll be playing again for a long while, especially since apparently NG+ kinda sucks.

 

[Ivan]

Majestic! A hunter is a hunter, even in a dream.

 

[Silva]

Cowboy Moment , I agree with everything you said except the bosses part, as I've found Logarius boring as fuck, and loved most bosses in the game.

About the mentioned intro, what is it ? My game "intro" plays after I press new game.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Cowboy Moment , I agree with everything you said except the bosses part, as I've found Logarius boring as fuck, and loved most bosses in the game.

About the mentioned intro, what is it ? My game "intro" plays after I press new game.

There's also a CGI intro, I thought it would normally play after the logos when starting the game, and I had skipped it accidentally. That's actually not true. Instead, it plays if you just idle in the menu for a couple of minutes...

 

[Hobo Elf]

The only truly meh bosses are the ones hidden within the chalice dungeons. Dunno how far you guys have bothered to go, but the further down I go the worse they get. They should've added some kind of colloseum where you can fight the chalice bosses on demand instead of forcing us to trudge through a banal dungeon to get to them, at least.

 

[praetor]

- One interesting thing is that some areas have background music, which is a first for Souls games. And it works really well too, especially in Upper Cathedral Ward.

Ash lake? the fairy lady chamber?

DS2 intro is still best.

i agree with the rest, but i can't agree with this. it doesn't look good aesthetically (subjective, i know ) and it's needlessly cryptic (like the emerald herald)

 

[Silva]

Okay, finished it. Took me 80 hours because I suck and only learned to parry by the end. I really liked this game, even with the glaring flaws it possesses (vials farming, poor weapon placement, and inability to lantern-travel to anywhere). Some thoughts:

If Souls 1 theme is melancholy and sense of loss for an age that is dying, and Souls 2 is despair for the loss of self, Bloodborne theme is corruption and over ambition. Its the most human of the bunch, because it's all our fault in the end - we poked in the wrong place and brought disaster upon ourselves. Yharnam is damned not due to some cosmic cycle of destruction, but because it's people did some glorious shit. I like that.

Insight is one of the most interesting mechanics I've seen in a videogame. The way it synergizes with the plot by slowly revealing the "reality behind the illusion" is genius. At the same time, it also synergizes with frenzy to depict madness, and with the Hunter Dream to depict "dream-physics" and the power to manipulate "your" dream.

By the way, this is a quality From should be louded for, coming up with inventive mechanics to depict abstract setting concepts (and the contrary, coming up with inventive setting concepts to explain usual mechanics). It was like this in Souls where the enemies come back everytime you rest (because they are all undead like you), or the hollowing mechanic itself. Even of it has holes (why the bosses don't come back too? ) it's very interesting to see a dev go out and try new things distinct from the usual XP and hit points.

I continue later.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I actually think Bloodborne's themes are humanity, birth/rebirth and motherhood. I think corruption and ambition work too, but motherhood was one of the things that stuck out to me the most. All the important NPCs are women who are mothers or show motherly qualities. Also the blood used for all the rituals and the blood vials themselves are menstrual blood. The canonical good ending is the hunter being reborn as a squid and the doll taking care of you like a mother.

 

[Silva]

Hobo Elf, nice insight. Makes total sense. Queen Yharnam crying for her baby at the end of the nightmare left a strong impression in me. (who took her baby from her, btw ? Mensis school/Micolash, in an attempt to transcend/gain power? And who is the wet nurse ? An expression of Oedon ? It seems so as he is formless and thus would appear like a ghost under that cape, exactly like the nurse looks.)

 

[Hobo Elf]

No one took Queen Yharnam's baby away. Mergo is a Great One born from when another Great One impregnated Yharnam, the same way as False Iosefka and the prostitute get pregnant once the Blood Moon event is triggered. Somewhere along the way I do believe that Mergo was killed in our physical plane. However, being an old one, they cannot truly die and exist within other planes of existence (hence why you fight Rhom in the chalice dungeons, when you jump in the lake and why we find Rhom's dead body on our physical plan on an altar where we fight Erebrietas). As I have said before, Micolash is called the the Host of the Nightmare, however this does not mean that he is the master of the nightmare because it does not end in his death, Mergo is the true master and the nightmare ends upon its death. Micolash simply entered Mergo's deam-world to learn secrets of the Great Ones. The Wet Nurse is as far as I can tell, just that, a wet nurse. An alien being sent by the Great Ones to take care of the infant great one. There doesn't seem to be any written in-game lore about it.

 

[Villagkouras]

I actually think Bloodborne's themes are humanity, birth/rebirth and motherhood. I think corruption and ambition work too, but motherhood was one of the things that stuck out to me the most. All the important NPCs are women who are mothers or show motherly qualities. Also the blood used for all the rituals and the blood vials themselves are menstrual blood. The canonical good ending is the hunter being reborn as a squid and the doll taking care of you like a mother.

I agree. This is why the nightmare is called Nightmare of Mensis, which has the same word root with menstrual.

 

[Mozg]

The ultimate root word of menstrual is moon, though (menstrual -> monthly -> moon)

*And mensis is Latin for month so yeah.

 

[Silva]

Hobo, I think some of the blood we use is menstrual, but not all of them. The vileblood queen gives her pulse for us to bite/drink just like a vamp, and enemies all around the city drop blood vials which origin is unknown.

About Mergo, it makes sense. But why is Yharnam crying ? I had the impression it's child was being imprisoned in the nightmare for some reason. I thought it was for Micolash interest. In fact, the way some parts of Unseen Village and Lecture Hall are inside the nightmare makes me wonder if Micolash also had some power over the nightmare. It would reinforce my theory that Micolash I using the baby to fuel some of its power or something.

Going back to my impressions on the game, I think its art direction is top notch, easily the best in the series and one of the best I've seen. The way the game goes from Victorian gothic to a descent into madness by the end is superbly depicted by the environments and art. I was genuinely perturbed by some of the imagery in Nightmare of Mensis, Upper Cathedral, Research Hall and Fishing Village. Also, I think this game best realizes the Miyazaki concept of "fill the blanks" storytelling where every object has two or more possible interpretations thus allowing for a combination of possibilities. Really reminds me of trying to make sense of those comics as a kid. :D

 

[Hobo Elf]

I think it is menstrual blood, all of it. When the prostitute gives us her blood it comes in a vial with a little girly old fashioned tampon strapped on it. Once the prostitute gets pregnant, she stops giving you her blood, because of obvious biological reasons. And since the fresh menstrual blood is such a potent healing item it only stands to reason that they'd try to harvest the cream of the crop only, meaning that all the blood vials are also menstrual blood. To make matters even yuckier, if you have not noticed it, the hunter injects himself wtih the blood viels by hitting his leg with a syringe. I thought it was fairly obvious but I know a lot of people thought that the hunter was chugging the blood down. I think in the Vileblood Queen's case it's just a matter of her being undead and her biological functions don't work normally. She's probably just a empty husk bloated with that yummy menstrual blood which she will feed to everyone else willing to take it. I don't recall anything special about the vileblood that would set it apart from the usual stuff, other than it not being controlled by the church. Some of these ideas are obviously bit of a stretch in some cases (all blood vials being menstrual blood for one), but I think there's enough evidence to prove and disprove these ideas.

Yharnam is probably crying because she gave birth to a monstrosity. Her existence dates waaaay back before humans started fetishizing blood and wanted to become Great Ones. If you go back to Yharnam's ghost after killing Mergo she will do an emote as if to thank the hunter for killing the baby.

 

[Silva]

Hobo, the menstrual blood theory is reasonable. About the vilenlood queen, who knows.. maybe she scratched their pussy before asking you to lick their fingers or something.

About Yharnam, what evidence is there for her baby being dead/stillborn ? I couldn't find it.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Lettuce see. I think somewhere it might have been implied that Oedon impregnated Yharnam with what will be Mergo. Mergo was stillborn, however, since Great Ones gon Great One, Mergo manages to exist in a different plane of existence, his/her/its own nightmarish dream-world where we go to. Micolash obtains Mergo's umbilical cord and uses it to commune with Mergo within this dream-world. All the umbilical cords have different lore snippets so here are the key ones I had in mind when forming this loose theory.

This is from the cord you get for killing the Wet Nurse:

"Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate. This Cord granted Mensis audience with Mergo, but resulted in the stillbirth of their brains."

Well, this pretty much confirms my idea of Micolash using the umbilical cord to commune with Mergo, although it does not imply that it was Mergo's umbilical cord. I only think it's Mergo's because that would make more sense to me.

From the cord that belongs to the prostitutes baby you murder:

"Every Great One loses its child, and then yearns for a surrogate, and Oedon, the formless Great One, is no different. To think, it was corrupted blood that began this eldritch liaison."

Gets a bit more reachy here, but it does flat out state that Oedon had a child and lost it. Doesn't specify it as Mergo, but the puzzle pieces kinda connect with each other, if you squint your eyes and wish it hard enough.

And this reminds me how this is the edgiest game to have ever exist and I'm surprised that no one is up in arms over it. To get what could be considered the best ending of this game the player needs to murder pregnant women and their babies so he can consume their umbilical cords. Only Japan can get away with this.

 

[Dyskolos]

The only truly meh bosses are the ones hidden within the chalice dungeons. Dunno how far you guys have bothered to go, but the further down I go the worse they get. They should've added some kind of colloseum where you can fight the chalice bosses on demand instead of forcing us to trudge through a banal dungeon to get to them, at least.

Those dungeons nearly did me in. I fucked up by not touching the chalices at all until the end so I had to slog through something like 20 levels back to back to get to Yharnam Queen but even properly spaced out I can't imagine feeling anything but dread for them. It's like From never decided whether they were a proper part of the game or just bonus zones then ended by making theidiotic compromise of hiding the beast claw and final optional boss behind twenty copy-paste lazy labyrinths. Probably because by that point they realized no one would ever be willing to go through them otherwise since the only other rewards they offer are extra % bloodgems - is this an mmo now? - and access to even more chalices. If I never replay Bloodborne - and it would be the only souls game I don't - it'll be thanks to my final memories of the game being these dungeons.

 

[Talby]

Chalice dungeons are more palatable if you do them one or two at a time and then return to the main game, rather than trying to binge through them all at the end. The main problems are the lack of variety in the layouts and rooms, and the lack of worthwhile rewards until very late when you start getting blood rocks and powerful blood gems.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The main problem I found with the chalice dungeon rewards is that the good bloodgems are only important for online PvP. For the base game it's just overkill, and not only that, but you also get a shitload of echoes from the deeper dungeons so not only are your weapons becoming monsters but your levels are going to skyrocket as well. Like I said, it would have been better as a colosseum for boss rushing where the reward is the fight itself, instead of having to slog through the same boring 10 or so room layouts.

 

[Silva]

Restarted with a "cruel fate" origin (15 arcane) guy and whew! I'm swimming in vials and bullets with my increased discovery rate. If I knew this, I would raised my old guy Arcane to 15 at least (it stayed at 9 the whole game).

Oh, and my previous experience added to the Saw Cleaver makes the game much easier in the beginning. I don't know how much is the cleaver bonus against beasts, but its significant enough to allow me to face multiples werewolves in a easy way. I don't miss the threaded cane at all.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The Threaded Cane is a pretty awful weapon imo. It's only good at high levels with the Arcane scaling gems.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Hunter Axe is even more overpowered than Saw Cleaver imo. Cane is allright, but it suffers from the whip moveset being ass, as most whip movesets in Souls games are. Main problem is shit weapon variety for most of the game, really.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The only good whip-like weapon is the Beast Cutter.

 

[Silva]

Question: Was the city of Yharnam baptized in honor of the actual queen, after the discovery of the tomb by the Byergenwerth scholars ? Or it already existed and the name came through other source ?


I ask because
it sounds improbable to me that the city didn't exist yet by the time of Byrgenwerth. But then we are not given actual dates, so everything could have hapenned centuries ago.