Better, than the test site, blander than the past.

[SerratedBiz]

The amount of butthurt over what amounts to so little actual change goes beyond autistic here. I can't even take the ridiculous amount of me-too whining seriously because it's so over the top for such a nothingburger that this layout change has been reduced to that it's not even funny. It's honestly worse than kindergarten. Twiglard's gone to great lengths to basically strip the new layout of practically all the meaningful changes, down to even reducing the font to this ridiculously small size again and yet the amount of bile spewed over it here is practically unchanged from before.

We get it, the Codex is unable to accept literally the first change in 20 years, no matter how minor. We've known that it's going to be like this no matter what. Some things will still be tweaked, some won't. If you can't live with that, tough.

Man, go fuck yourself.

 

[Skinwalker]

Someone fix the fucking colors to make them the same as on the oldex ffs. And restore my shoutbox access!

 

[GhostCow]

You hid all the lovely response buttons under the brofist icon. Cunts.

Well played.

This is one of the few changes I like.

Honestly I'm not minding the desktop site that much. There are a lot of little nitpicks I'd like to see changed like some of the colors and removing the spaces between the posts, but thankfully other people have brought them up. I still wish there was an optional dark theme though. I think by the time all of the missing features are back in place I'll be fine with the new forum.

Everything about the mobile site is awful though. It really needs to be brought in line with the desktop site.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Basically all this happened because like three or four people on this bum ass site were too cheap to drop a Benji to get blue light protection for their coke bottle spectacles and now we gotta deal with their bitch ass eyes ruining everything.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Also don't restore Liberal/Maximus/skinwalker's Shoutbox access. I like seeing him in pain.

 

[Strig]

Like I said earlier, while the old theme needed some cleaning up the current state of Codex is a downgrade in most ways. But there is one glaring issue that contributes to what some have described as "a headache-inducing experience". It's the font (and the contrast but that's a separate issue, one thing at a time). Almost all of you conflate font size with legibility and that is not the case (no pun intended), not entirely anyway. Currently 'Dex's font for posts seems to be Lato Bold and there are several issues with this. Tahoma had bigger x-height than Lato and on top of that the ascender line was higher than the cap-line. I believe Tahoma's kerning is also superior. And while you may think that bigger and fatter Lato Bold would be easier to read... well... it ain't. It's fine for headers but not for long-form posts. Even Lato Regular would be better but still much too uniform. There is a reason why you don't usually use sans serif fonts for longer texts, and while I won't push for a bookish serif a more varied and balanced sans serif typeface is needed. Currently the text feels crowded, some have described the letters as blurry, interline spacing seem insufficient. I know you've no idea what I'm on about so a handy guide:

Also, whatever this shit is has to stop:

 

[Jenkem]

Someone fix the fucking colors to make them the same as on the oldex ffs. And restore my shoutbox access!

I think it is related to not having Patron status

 

[GhostCow]

I just realized you can double click the brofist button for a brofist if you don't want to scan for it in the list. Nice feature.

Also please remove the online notifier in people's avatars. This looks horrible.

 

[Boleskine]

I propose the following modifications to enhance the forum's modern look and feel.

 

[Taluntain]

literally no one is asking for this. the site looks worse with your font size change, on desktop and mobile, and you are squarely to blame.

it is obvious that it is your personal preference that the font size be larger. it is also obvious that the overwhelming majority of the user base, that is engaged enough to offer feedback, does not want this.

i am legitimately sorry for my brothers and sisters that bought 4k screens without knowing what it means. but their ignorance should not trap this site into catering to their malresolution. The font size was fine, the new size looks like a console game's UI stretched over a PC monitor.

the fact that font size has so occupied your faculties while so many other deficiencies with the site and UI exist belay your preference. We know, it is hard to want a thing that is not commonly accepted as good or desired. Yet, that does not mean that you are correct in forcing your will upon others. Let our pixels be free, for we are myopic and do not rely on the good will of others to be rendered in a readable fashion.

Also, try buying a screen that is lower resolution for the equivalent real estate. It's an easier option than making website designs cater to your (poorly) preferred resolution.

Literally no one when several people in this thread alone asked for it? Heh, ok. There's also a poll where more than a third of people voted that they need to enlarge the font size on the Codex to use it. But sure, it's just my preference.

Jesus fucking Christ man. What is wrong with you? Why are you acting so defensive on this whole ordeal? Calm down.

You have been here longer than most and seen enough of what we all talk about to understand the reason we all ended up here is to have one place where we didn't have to deal with this whole progressive crap that has been degrading not only games but technology and the internet as a whole. All your arguments against our complaints boil down to "you hate change", "you don't understand shit about web design", "you are just contrarian fucks", "I know better than the lot of you", while citing what "Google defines as good" or "Google requires bigger fonts" or "mobile user experience requires that".

Who the hell cares about what Google defines as good? They have made some of the worst design changes in history. YouTube has been butchered countless times and it only remains on top because nobody else has the money to create anything similar, or, using the similar arguments as those used here: people don't like change and will rather stick to a worst UX rather than move somewhere else. Google's web apps are bloated beyond belief and violate web standards repeatedly. You can't even have proper icons anymore for Google apps because they managed to fuck something as simple as an icon.

Mobile user experience will also always be terrible no matter what because phones are not desktop computers, theirs screens are tiny, touch interfaces will always be extremely limited, and their portrait orientation cramps everything and makes reading anything terrible. Making the experience worse for people browsing on a desktop is precisely what gaming developers have been doing these past decades and nothing good came out of it as a result. Also, this is what most sites do to provide a good experience for desktop and mobile users:

You're mistaking stating facts for acting defensive. I'm just presenting the facts, I'm well aware that they are not to many people's liking, but that's life for you. I'm not going to agree with something that I know is incorrect just to avoid the wrath of some Codex dwellers. I didn't make the new style, so you're barking up the wrong tree. Twiglard was in the same camp as you at hating the original new layout that DU presented, and then spent quite a bit of time and effort to edit it to what he considered to be much better, and I agreed in principle. But given all the outpouring of bile over his version as well now, it's anybody's guess whether he'll want to completely redo it again, knowing that it will never be good enough for the major complainers.

I think that you're being considerably overdramatic about how certain minor adjustments for mobiles have ruined your life, so I can't take that seriously, sorry.

Yes, that means two separate interfaces, but it also makes the best use of both instead of compromising both for the sake of one.

I understand and agree that updating the forums is necessary. Software gets outdated and security/usability/performance comes only with new versions. I know that, I have been working with software development since the late 90's, although web development is not something I've ever done other than fixing things on my end with CSS or JS injection. I also know that when users complained about changes their APIs it was not because they hated change, but because something they used to have is now broken or changed so dramatically that they either: 1) have to relearn everything and adapt existing workflows; or 2) the functionality is lost forever and not coming back, requiring user-made workarounds. Nobody complained when Windows 7 came out and superseded Vista because it was an obvious improvement in several ways. Everybody complained when Windows 8 came out and forced a tablet interface on a desktop environment.

We can never complain to Google or Microsoft about the crap they have been doing for the past decade. There will never be a human being on the other end to acknowledge and act upon user feedback. We can complain here, and most of our complaints have been tossed aside since the beta site when we pointed out about the poor choice of colors, poor contrast, cramped interface, and poor readability as a result. Some users are having headaches, I got my eyes literally sore because of the poor contrast after a few minutes of using the site. Nothing has really changed since the beta on this regard, nor has it been acknowledged as part of what will be ironed out in the future. Instead we are hearing things like making the site consistent across mobiles or justifications as to why the current choices are right and we are all wrong. We provide constructive criticism up to a point where nothing comes out of it, then shit starts to derail like it's already happening.

The site not using more horizontal space makes no sense. Moving our heads from left to right is not something that happens to people that actually sit at a reasonable distance from their screens. Having everything cramped into a small column in the center of the screen is not a good user experience as it wastes a lot of usable space and requires more and more scrolling. Just try to read some of the let's play threads like this and notice how all the images are now horizontally compressed to the maximum screen width, and how you it makes it harder to read the text inside images as a result. This is worse UX because of this design choice. I have seen other forums that migrated to XenForo 2 and they all use my entire screen, and, allegedly, the developers of these forums also followed UI/UX principles and I don't see many complaints after the UI gets updated to reflect what most users are complaining about.

XenForo has an inbuilt mobile version and we work with that alongside Tapatalk. But for years now, Google hasn't cared about the desktop versions of any sites any more. They rate and rank any website according to their mobile versions. The common misconception on the Codex and the common grudge is that "nobody" is using mobiles anyway, and that anyone who does is a retard anyway and doesn't count.

But moving on to actual facts vs. the Codex fantasies; on most websites, the number of mobile users today exceeds the number of desktop users already. So desktop users are in the minority. On the Codex, the number of mobile users is nearing 40%; in a few years, desktop users will be the minority as well.

Lament that all you want, but those are the facts. So Google isn't the stupid one here or forcing some horrible hidden agenda to deprive the Codexers of some imaginary rights. They were simply able to detect and correctly predict the trend that mobiles will prevail everywhere in a few years and are preparing web masters for this fact accordingly so that they're not caught with their pants down when one day they wake up and check the stats and see that the number of mobile users is higher than those on desktops.

But moving back to the layout again; Twiglard's changed dozens of things about it, so saying that nothing was changed is both totally inaccurate and frankly ridiculous. How anyone's eyes are bleeding or anyone is getting headaches, I have no idea. I'm extremely sensitive to things like that and light forum styles are practically unusable for me, but I'm having no problems whatsover and no eye strain with this one. So clearly, the experience here is very subjective again. Plenty of people have their monitors miscalibrated, which is one explanation how something that works perfectly fine for me can be problematic for someone else. So making assumptions that one user's subjective experience is the same as another's often turns out to be incorrect.

And you're talking about a forum upgrade that's literally been around for X hours, complaining as if it's been the same for 3 months already. This isn't a full time job for me or anyone else here. Even in these few hours, a bunch of stuff's already been done.

And no, you're not going to convince me that a fluid layout is better than fixed width. There's a very good reason why no books stretch their text across both pages and why newspaper articles are laid out in columns. There are readability standards that you're defying due to your personal preference and that's that. My own personal experience is completely contrary to yours so I disagree with yours in every aspect, but at least my preference is backed up by standards that go back to the invention of print, whereas yours has no other basis than personal preference. But as I've said here several times before, that's fine, there'll be both a fluid and fixed width layout to keep you happy.

So take your own advice, calm down and give it time.

 

[Jenkem]

Why is there no Mobile Gaming subforum then?

 

[HarveyBirdman]

But moving on to actual facts vs. the Codex fantasies; on most websites, the number of mobile users today exceeds the number of desktop users already. So desktop users are in the minority. On the Codex, the number of mobile users is nearing 40%; in a few years, desktop users will be the minority as well.

This is a trap. You don't have to design the website to please the users, even if they are a majority of the users -- a point you have made repeatedly to criticism in this thread.

I don't want a bunch of mobile users on the dex. Steve Jobs ruined the internet by letting retards access it on their iPhones. Designing for desktop gatekeeps the riff raff. Besides, I browse desktop versions of sites on my cellphone anyway, because desktop layouts are always more functional and phone screens are plenty big enough to handle them nowadays.

Kevin Costner said "If you build it, they will come." Don't build a site to attract people who have no business being here.

 

[Abu Antar]

Another request: Currently, I need to scroll down to the bottom of a page to change page in a thread. Please, put that option at the top, like on the old version.

Thanks.

 

[Taluntain]

This is a trap. You don't have to design the website to please the users, even if they are a majority of the users -- a point you have made repeatedly to criticism in this thread.

I don't want a bunch of mobile users on the dex. Steve Jobs ruined the internet by letting retards access it on their iPhones. Designing for desktop gatekeeps the riff raff. Besides, I browse desktop versions of sites on my cellphone anyway, because desktop layouts are always more functional and phone screens are plenty big enough to handle them nowadays.

Kevin Costner said "If you build it, they will come." Don't build a site to attract people who have no business being here.

Funny fact, DU mentioned recently that most of the time he accesses the Codex these days, it's on mobile. I guess he's unwanted too now.

The idea is to make the forums usable for both desktop and mobile use. There is no reason not to make minor tweaks to improve the mobile experience when it can be done. Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses, but preferring one over another is no reason to want to ignore the other when you know that a considerable number of people are using it. We don't have a separate mobile site, the forum style just works with mobiles as well.

 

[Zombra]

Another request: Currently, I need to scroll down to the bottom of a page to change page in a thread. Please, put that option at the top, like on the old version.

Unless they fixed it in the last 5 minutes, page buttons were already at top of thread as well as bottom.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Funny fact, DU mentioned recently that most of the time he accesses the Codex these days, it's on mobile. I guess he's unwanted too now.

The idea is to make the forums usable for both desktop and mobile use. There is no reason not to make minor tweaks to improve the mobile experience when it can be done. Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses, but preferring one over another is no reason to want to ignore the other when you know that a considerable number of people are using it. We don't have a separate mobile site, the forum style just works with mobiles as well.

And I said that I use my cellphone too. My point is that the design team should consider desktop first and foremost, and mobile second.

 

[Taluntain]

That is and always has been the case. We all work on desktops and most of us access the Codex on desktops most of the time as well. We're just not ignoring mobiles any more.

 

[Sharpedge]

This will depend on your monitor settings I expect, the line is clearly visible for me on desktop.

It could be. It could also be because my eyesight is shit (it really is) and so such a subtle line is difficult for me to notice. I have the same issue with the boundaries at the edge of posts, the only reason I can actually tell they are there is because of the gap between the posts, after the boundaries. Increasing the width of the line by 1 or 2 pixels would likely resolve the problem, but I acknowledge that I am an edge/minority case here and not everyone has fucked up vision.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

And I said that I use my cellphone too. My point is that the design team should consider desktop first and foremost, and mobile second.

This is a stupid debate because it's not as if they can do either/or. The vast majority of platforms these days are designed for both, including XF2. All they can really do is improve the current software they have, and, honestly, I think they could silence most of the bitching by just editing the CSS to make the colors, font, links, and etc. resemble Old-Dex.

As to the middle column not filling the screen, I have no idea what people are talking about. I have a wide screen, and the bars on either side aren't massive. They are about the same size as Old-Dex for me. However, after I got a 4K monitor I had to use Chrome's settings to resize rpgcodex.net and make everything bigger, so that could be affecting why I'm not having the issues others seem to be.

It could be. It could also be because my eyesight is shit (it really is) and so such a subtle line is difficult for me to notice. I have the same issue with the boundaries at the edge of posts, the only reason I can actually tell they are there is because of the gap between the posts, after the boundaries. Increasing the width of the line by 1 or 2 pixels would likely resolve the problem, but I acknowledge that I am an edge/minority case here and not everyone has fucked up vision.

This is what Window's accessibility features are for.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Also, I will say that the new multi-quote and "insert quote" functions are a huge improvement over Old-Dex. As are the "Load New Message" links that appear at the bottom of threads when something new is posted.

 

[Taluntain]

All those actually existed on XF1 as well. For years...

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Funny fact, DU mentioned recently that most of the time he accesses the Codex these days, it's on mobile. I guess he's unwanted too now.

Do we get banned if we say "Yes?"

 

[Correct_Carlo]

All those actually existed on XF1 as well. For years...

It worked differently, though. Now a pop-up menu appears and you can drag and drop quotes to be in whatever order you want before you insert them into the message. You can also write a message, and then add more quotes to it halfway through. The old multi-quote function was lame. Whenever I'd use it, it'd fuck up whatever I was writing.

 

[Abu Antar]

Unless they fixed it in the last 5 minutes, page buttons were already at top of thread as well as bottom.

I only have "jump to new" and "watch/unwatch".

 

[Bigg Boss]

Man, go fuck yourself.

Not sure but I think he rated your post butthurt.

 

[Konjad]

Haha, that's been a great joke, really funny and smart, the best kind, you got us all!

Now that everyone enjoyed the laugh, we can go back to old layout