Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

[Ibn Sina]

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

How is it different from nachos, wieldergangers, spiders, hyenas, serpents and the likes?

Besides, even the most complex battles aren't really interesting, tactical wise, it's always the same old encounter design or worse, randomly shuffled formation in the woods with no visibility.

How are the Alps encounters more mind-numbing?
I think it's a breath of fresh air because it introduces interesting different mechanics.
Just like the hexes.

I got the sense from reading the replies that a lot of the "meta" players in this game do not like unorthodox tactics or any deviations from regular human attacks. In fact I got the sense that if it was up to them, the entire game would be human enemies throwing their waves at your uber formation of min maxed elite bros with no variables or variations in anything whatsoever.

 

[Serus]

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

How is it different from nachos, wieldergangers, spiders, hyenas, serpents and the likes?

Besides, even the most complex battles aren't really interesting, tactical wise, it's always the same old encounter design or worse, randomly shuffled formation in the woods with no visibility.

How are the Alps encounters more mind-numbing?
I think it's a breath of fresh air because it introduces interesting different mechanics.
Just like the hexes.

Nachos are very different and much, much (much...) more interesting to fight. They are a level of complexity higher than all the others you mentioned. Have 3 "levels". The highest with an additional dangerous and fun attack. Add the ability to grow into higher types - but only under certain condition. All this requires 10x tactical considerations fighting them compared to all others. I remember one fight where i made some mistakes and killed some nachos that i shouldn't have - as early. A couple of nachos grew. I ended with several big ones and several of my bros being swallowed. I eventually won by killing all smaller ones and then the big ones one by one freeing my people. It was FUN. You simply can't get that with Alps.

Serpents or wolfs and hyenas are better because they can actually pose a danger and the battle itself is intense and usually fast. Not like Alps. The spiders i might agree, they are often boring because just like Alps they rarely pose a danger and don't have anything to very interesting about them. And are slow, just like Alps. Still, slaughtering waves of attackers is subjectively more satisfying than poking some teleporting things.
Hexes. Making a bro change sides or casting a spell that makes you damage your own bro is "just like Alps"? I suppose we have to agree to disagree big time here. I find hexes mechanics interesting and game changing while for Alps is just a gimmick: make me lose a few APs every turn. Big deal.

I asked you before but i honestly forgot the answer:
Why do you play a tactical game about fighting hundreds of battles that has "even most complex battles battles not really interesting"?

 

[Brancaleone]

Exactly. And the problem is, their gimmicks instead a forcing any kind of tactical dilemma onto you, they force you to repeat that same thing a mind-numbing number of times, since you basically have to grind them down (the ifrits because of the fusion thing, the alps because of their teleport on hit, which means you usually hit a different one most of the time). The alps are even worse, because they make formation meaningless, you just have to keep the blob and hit the closest one, wake up, rinse and repeat.

How is it different from nachos, wieldergangers, spiders, hyenas, serpents and the likes?

Errr, seriously?

Nachos force you to choose whether to kill, and risk them eating, or spread your damage in order to wound and lower morale, or just defend until they all are tied up before starting attacking.
Position-wise, it's probably the most demanding type of encounter, since you have to take into account not only their access to existing bodies, but also how the scatter mechanics for additional bodies might put them beyond the area you can deny them, or control in some way.
If you go for their morale, you have to be very careful about the ones who flee, since if they rally they are going before you, and many times they can eat before you can do anything about it.
The gobble ability of tier three adds another big chunk to the equation, just imagine how a battle against tier three is different compared to tier two.
And so on, and on.

P.S. I see Serus has already answered so I'll avoid wasting more time on the other cases, and honestly, if your position is that they are all the same, this conversation is pointless.

 

[Payd Shell]

I like alps thematically. It's the only fight where you can field a group of naked dudes with billhooks and actually have an advantage because of that.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I asked you before but i honestly forgot the answer:
Why do you play a tactical game about fighting hundreds of battles that has "even most complex battles battles not really interesting"?

Because mods are good but I can't say I play it much nowadays and I'm not touching it anymore until Magic Origin modder comes back and if he doesn't, that's it.
The base game is quite tiresome and I've seen most (like 95/99%) of what Legends can offer.

In Legends, alps can drop runes, which makes it interesting and later, they might be led by a Demon Alp which makes things even more interesting.

Nachos are alright, it was my only weak example but you were too happy to disagree when you know I'm right.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Came here to vent:

1. Map seeds are retarded in BB. How fucking hard is it to have an even map seed generator? Doesn't have to be exactly the same every time, but ffs, playable.

Just got a map that looked good at first glance, but whatever the fuck it was, literally 98% of all contracts are caravan/package variety. The previous map that I played well into did not have any port cities, so no Swordmasters. If you have a random map generator, put some fucking effort into it you tards.

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

This bullshit fucks with realistic tactics, why even have a frontline/backline if these assholes can hit the backline at will?

3. Was traveling, ran into a party of Hexen/Unhold. Turned around to escape them, went into mountains. My party slows down due to high mountains, their party travels at full speed, as if on flat ground and catches up to me.

 

[Harthwain]

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

Actually, this is why I loved heavy archer composition at some point (early in the game, before the DLCs) - it was just fun to pepper enemies with arrows and be sure that in most cases something would hit someone, regardless of how shitty your ranged units were. Then it was fun to land accurate hits on targets I wanted to hit. But with high enough volume of shots you shouldn't be surprised enemy will keep hitting your backline.

 

[Darth Canoli]

1. Map seeds are retarded in BB. How fucking hard is it to have an even map seed generator? Doesn't have to be exactly the same every time, but ffs, playable.

Just got a map that looked good at first glance, but whatever the fuck it was, literally 98% of all contracts are caravan/package variety. The previous map that I played well into did not have any port cities, so no Swordmasters. If you have a random map generator, put some fucking effort into it you tards.

This and combat encounter, quest design and world economics/management are way below the expected quality.

Many things are done right but the room for improvement could fit a whole Mammoth's herd.

 

[Ibn Sina]

All issues will be fixed with the upcoming BB2 inshallah.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

Actually, this is why I loved heavy archer composition at some point (early in the game, before the DLCs) - it was just fun to pepper enemies with arrows and be sure that in most cases something would hit someone, regardless of how shitty your ranged units were. Then it was fun to land accurate hits on targets I wanted to hit. But with high enough volume of shots you shouldn't be surprised enemy will keep hitting your backline.

I am not talking about where there is 40 shots coming and some of them hit the backline. I am talking about their archers/throwers actively targeting the backline behind the frontline and hitting on like 8-10 straight shots. This is against the laws of fucking physics, how the fuck would you throw/shoot stuff at guys behind a line of guys with shields and hit every fucking time? One shot might go through by chance, but every fucking shot in a sequence? And this happens all the time, so it's not some rare probability thing, their fucking calculations are fucked up on this.

 

[Strange Fellow]

Every time someone accuses a game's RNG of being rigged, a beautiful ray of incline pierces the clouds and shines down upon us. Revel in it.

It has returned, my brothers

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

Actually, this is why I loved heavy archer composition at some point (early in the game, before the DLCs) - it was just fun to pepper enemies with arrows and be sure that in most cases something would hit someone, regardless of how shitty your ranged units were. Then it was fun to land accurate hits on targets I wanted to hit. But with high enough volume of shots you shouldn't be surprised enemy will keep hitting your backline.

I am not talking about where there is 40 shots coming and some of them hit the backline. I am talking about their archers/throwers actively targeting the backline behind the frontline and hitting on like 8-10 straight shots. This is against the laws of fucking physics, how the fuck would you throw/shoot stuff at guys behind a line of guys with shields and hit every fucking time? One shot might go through by chance, but every fucking shot in a sequence? And this happens all the time, so it's not some rare probability thing, their fucking calculations are fucked up on this.

Have you considered possibility that it was something you did which angered RNG?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, but your mom's gynocologist assured me that wasn't the case.

What is it with fanboy retards coming out of the woodwork every time you point a legit issue with a game? Oh you can't criticize this game at at all, or question underlying mechanics, these developers are divine and incapable of doing dumb shit...

 

[Harthwain]

What is it with fanboy retards coming out of the woodwork every time you point a legit issue with a game?

I've seen way too many people complaining about RNG when not knowing what they're talking about to believe them when they say the AI cheats and hits them every time, while not providing any sort of evidence for people to review their claims. So forgive me my skepticism in your case. With RNG you will get all kinds of ridiculous outcomes, because any sort of outcome is possible, even if it's extremely improbable.

 

[Brancaleone]

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

Enemy shooters (and also Brigand Raiders or Barbarian Reavers with missile weapons) always have Bullseye, which substantially reduces their penalty to hit targets under cover. Do your shooters have Bullseye?
Plus, some of the shots you saw as 'hits' were probably misses that scattered (i.e., they missed the target guy, but hit another one next to him, albeit at a penalty).

 

[Raghar]

I am not talking about where there is 40 shots coming and some of them hit the backline. I am talking about their archers/throwers actively targeting the backline behind the frontline and hitting on like 8-10 straight shots. This is against the laws of fucking physics, how the fuck would you throw/shoot stuff at guys behind a line of guys with shields and hit every fucking time? One shot might go through by chance, but every fucking shot in a sequence? And this happens all the time, so it's not some rare probability thing, their fucking calculations are fucked up on this.

Are standing JUST behind frontline soldier, or is there a space between them? If there is space they are not exactly considered as hiding behind soldier in front of them.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

What is it with fanboy retards coming out of the woodwork every time you point a legit issue with a game?

I've seen way too many people complaining about RNG when not knowing what they're talking about to believe them when they say the AI cheats and hits them every time, while not providing any sort of evidence for people to review their claims. So forgive me my skepticism in your case. With RNG you will get all kinds of ridiculous outcomes, because any sort of outcome is possible, even if it's extremely improbable.

Nice strawman there. Show me where I even mentioned RNG in the original post. People like you are like a walking internet meme, zero critical thinking skills, just repeat some meme they saw somewhere else. Also since you brought it up, has it ever occurred to you in that tiny chicken brain of yours that if so many people complain about RNG in BB, maybe there is something to it? After all, these are the same people that play all sorts of other die roll based games, such as DnD and so on, and yet BB seems to the one they noticed this in. <mind blown>

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

Enemy shooters (and also Brigand Raiders or Barbarian Reavers with missile weapons) always have Bullseye, which substantially reduces their penalty to hit targets under cover. Do your shooters have Bullseye?
Plus, some of the shots you saw as 'hits' were probably misses that scattered (i.e., they missed the target guy, but hit another one next to him, albeit at a penalty).

Yes, I am aware of how Bullseyes works, and my elite crossbowmen with Bullseye and 80-90 in ranged attack rating have never in their dreams hit the backline so consistently as the enemy routinely does with its Barbarian Thrall scrubs or Outlaw Archers or whatever. And no they weren't scattered hits, AI routinely target specific backline people and hits them consecutively 3-4 times, killing them.

I am not talking about where there is 40 shots coming and some of them hit the backline. I am talking about their archers/throwers actively targeting the backline behind the frontline and hitting on like 8-10 straight shots. This is against the laws of fucking physics, how the fuck would you throw/shoot stuff at guys behind a line of guys with shields and hit every fucking time? One shot might go through by chance, but every fucking shot in a sequence? And this happens all the time, so it's not some rare probability thing, their fucking calculations are fucked up on this.

Are standing JUST behind frontline soldier, or is there a space between them? If there is space they are not exactly considered as hiding behind soldier in front of them.

Just behind of course.

 

[Serus]

PorkyThePaladin​

people complain about RNG in BB, maybe there is something to it? After all, these are the same people that play all sorts of other die roll based games, such as DnD and so on, and yet BB seems to the one they noticed this in. <mind blown>

"The one"? Are you trolling everyone here? I mean, really? The number of games where people claim that "rng cheats" is equal to the number of games made with any level of difficulty and at least few morons playing them. There are people who talk about "cheating rng" in tons of games including many D&D games. Apparently "the RNG it is HEAVILY tilted for the enemy" in KoTC2. Who knew. From a post on Steam. Of a DnD game. Btw, a game that matches the specifications. Here another, Pathfinder Kingmaker this time, another D&D-ish-like game:
While playing this game I have noticed a heavy bias in the "RNG" to roll high for enemies
https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/4679778856506054226/
And those are literally the first games that came to my mind.
The pattern is that it is always against the player BTW - but i already explained it to you before.

I already tried to explain to you why, without any solid proof presented, your attitude is moronic. Human mind easily commits perception errors. We tend perceive certain things (like negative results of random occurrences) more than others things. In addition the RNG does not work like people think it does. There are tons of books about it, especially the first issue. Go educate yourself instead of wasting everyone's time.

 

[Serus]

I asked you before but i honestly forgot the answer:
Why do you play a tactical game about fighting hundreds of battles that has "even most complex battles battles not really interesting"?

Because mods are good but I can't say I play it much nowadays and I'm not touching it anymore until Magic Origin modder comes back and if he doesn't, that's it.
The base game is quite tiresome and I've seen most (like 95/99%) of what Legends can offer.

In Legends, alps can drop runes, which makes it interesting and later, they might be led by a Demon Alp which makes things even more interesting.

Nachos are alright, it was my only weak example but you were too happy to disagree when you know I'm right.

Yes. I disagreed and provided some examples and arguments. Good or bad but there were there.
You otoh, just wrote: "you know i'm right". Amazing.

I doubt you will be able too see the irony here. People tend to be bad at it on the Codex.

 

[k0syak]

If a shot misses the original target and scatters to another one, only the later roll is displayed in the log.

 

[Harthwain]

Nice strawman there. Show me where I even mentioned RNG in the original post.

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

People like you are like a walking internet meme, zero critical thinking skills, just repeat some meme they saw somewhere else. Also since you brought it up, has it ever occurred to you in that tiny chicken brain of yours that if so many people complain about RNG in BB, maybe there is something to it?

I will repeat: I saw complaints about RNG in EVERY SINGLE GAME WITH RNG EVER CREATED. And I played a plenty of turn-based games with RNG. Just because some people are little bitches who can grasp how RNG works doesn't mean there is something wrong with it and it is literally impossible for it to be wrong 100% of the time. Educate yourself and read up on confirmation bias fallacy, you dirty peasant.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

PorkyThePaladin​

people complain about RNG in BB, maybe there is something to it? After all, these are the same people that play all sorts of other die roll based games, such as DnD and so on, and yet BB seems to the one they noticed this in. <mind blown>

"The one"? Are you trolling everyone here? I mean, really? The number of games where people claim that "rng cheats" is equal to the number of games made with any level of difficulty and at least few morons playing them. There are people who talk about "cheating rng" in tons of games including many D&D games. Apparently "the RNG it is HEAVILY tilted for the enemy" in KoTC2. Who knew. From a post on Steam. Of a DnD game. Btw, a game that matches the specifications. Here another, Pathfinder Kingmaker this time, another D&D-ish-like game:
While playing this game I have noticed a heavy bias in the "RNG" to roll high for enemies
https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/4679778856506054226/
And those are literally the first games that came to my mind.
The pattern is that it is always against the player BTW - but i already explained it to you before.

I think you are just confused (par for the course for you, my idiot friend). In Duncefinder: Cuckmaker, standard difficulty does screw the player over in terms of enemy rolls, but it's not really RNG, they tell you in the description it does that, and it's more bad design than anything else.

Having played most of these games, I don't recall people whining about bad RNG in ToEE, Shitmaker, IE games, etc, at least not often enough where anyone would care, while in BB, people whine about it all the time. While people who play BB are better tactical players on average, since it's a much more difficult game than the others I mentioned.

I already tried to explain to you why, without any solid proof presented, your attitude is moronic.

And I already explained to you that a moron accusing anyone else of a moronic attitude is nothing more than projection, and not useful for anything other than a few sympathy chuckles.

Human mind easily commits perception errors. We tend perceive certain things (like negative results of random occurrences) more than others things. In addition the RNG does not work like people think it does. There are tons of books about it, especially the first issue. Go educate yourself instead of wasting everyone's time.

Good god, you are an idiot. Knowing nothing whatsoever about my position or arguments about RNG in BB, you just jumped in because with your 2 digit IQ, you just couldn't help yourself, could you?

Nice strawman there. Show me where I even mentioned RNG in the original post.

2. Ranged hit calculation is retarded in BB. How the fuck do enemy missile shooters or throwers hit your backline every fucking time? They literally have better than 50% chance to hit your backline with your frontline and their frontline between them. You try that shit with your elite archers/crossbowmen, will be lucky to hit once every 10 times.

Are you really not getting the difference between badly designed game mechanics and RNG? I was complaining about frontline cover not giving any defense from ranged attacks, at least for your guys, nothing about RNG there. It's not fucking RNG when they hit your backline every fight more than half the time, it's a fucking broken mechanic.

People like you are like a walking internet meme, zero critical thinking skills, just repeat some meme they saw somewhere else. Also since you brought it up, has it ever occurred to you in that tiny chicken brain of yours that if so many people complain about RNG in BB, maybe there is something to it?

I will repeat: I saw complaints about RNG in EVERY SINGLE GAME WITH RNG EVER CREATED. And I played a plenty of turn-based games with RNG. Just because some people are little bitches who can grasp how RNG works doesn't mean there is something wrong with it and it is literally impossible for it to be wrong 100% of the time. Educate yourself and read up on confirmation bias fallacy, you dirty peasant.

I repeat, you are an idiot. You just saw the "people complain about RNG in BB" meme, and based your whole fucking thought process around it.

 

[Harthwain]

Are you really not getting the difference between badly designed game mechanics and RNG? I was complaining about frontline cover not giving any defense from ranged attacks, at least for your guys, nothing about RNG there. It's not fucking RNG when they hit your backline every fight more than half the time, it's a fucking broken mechanic.

So it's official - you're retarded. Because the ability to hit something that's behind a frontline (or hitting something else, because you're missing the intended target) is entirely RNG-based. If you can't grasp something so basic then we're done here.

 

[user]

Probably becoming a weirdo in my old age but would you prefer if BB had complete humanoid figures instead of torsos?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Are you really not getting the difference between badly designed game mechanics and RNG? I was complaining about frontline cover not giving any defense from ranged attacks, at least for your guys, nothing about RNG there. It's not fucking RNG when they hit your backline every fight more than half the time, it's a fucking broken mechanic.

So it's official - you're retarded. Because the ability to hit something that's behind a frontline (or hitting something else, because you're missing the intended target) is entirely RNG-based. If you can't grasp something so basic then we're done here.

Lol, you are like literally arguing against yourself now. If hitting the backline behind the frontline was entirely RNG based, as you are arguing now, then BB would be all about RNG and not at all about tactics, player skill, etc. Which fortunately enough is not the case, of course. You just seem to be fixated on RNG because you read that meme, and seem to be unable to move past it.

All I am saying, which you seem to have trouble grasping, is that the frontline cover doesn't provide enough defense to the backline, and that's a broken mechanic. Because 1. that's not how it works in RL combat, and 2. having a backline safe behind a shiedlwall is a big part of the fun of BB combat, and the fulcrum around which a lot of tactics work.

Probably becoming a weirdo in my old age but would you prefer if BB had complete humanoid figures instead of torsos?

I am totally fine with the torsos. It takes a little bit of getting used to in the beginning, but once you do, it's a very beautiful game. The torsos display a myriad of faces with custom haircuts/beards/scars/facial features which you can customize, and all the hundreds of pieces of equipment and accessories, and injuries and all of that. So could not ask for more on that front.