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Gauldur's Bait

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Messages
247
If I remember well in all these situations you can abuse the refugees a lot. There are a couple of minor quests around them and you can be evil or a jerk to them. It is not a social commentary if you are allowed to do different then expected.

Indeed you can, but then again that option as well is presented in very black and white tones. So it also tells you what a bad person you are if you seriously think that refugees should be treated more harshly by the state/police/government, ergo social commentary.
 

pippin

Guest
I'm only on page 37 of this wonderful thread but I wanted to drop in and post that BG original already had a bi-sexual character/pop-culture reference, Peter North who was growing 'subterrenean trees' in a cave filled with wyverns. He attacks you with a pole arm.

MY INN IS AS CLEAN AS AN ELVEN ARSE etc.

Those examples were cringeworthy as well, but SoD is worse because they went out of their way to date the game in an almost insulting manner.
 

Duraframe300

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Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
6,395
Well well...Looks like I got my answer, BG:SOD does actually provide more entertainment value than Pillows of Eternity.

:troll:

Dunno, the whole Firedorn saga was pretty entertaining.

Comparitativly not much did happen in the Firedorn Saga. No deleted reviews or somesuch, none or close to no (don't remember correctly) bans. They even allowed the original author to changed the poem himself and the only official statement was *Look, we let the author change it himself. That makes it ok*.

So, yeah from that perspective this is waaaaay more entertaining.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
They already knew that. Quick, name a gay character in Pillars of Eternity who doesn't work at the brothel.

The Codex's Strange New Respect™ for Carrie Patel

Maneha. Shes a lesbian.

Any male internet user should know that lesbians don't count(tm)

Comparitativly not much did happen in the Firedorn Saga. No deleted reviews or somesuch, none or close to no (don't remember correctly) bans. They even allowed the original author to change the poem himself and the only official statement was *Look, we let the author change it himself. That makes it ok*.

So, yeah from that perspective this is waaaaay more entertaining.

Firedorn Saga - SJWs get content removed, GamerGate gets mad.
Mizhena Saga - GamerGate wants content removed?

It's a bit unfair that Obsidian got through it more-or-less completely unscathed while Beamdog might get completely trashed, but life is always harder when you're smaller.
 

pippin

Guest
Also the edited text was comparatively more amusing than the one originally submitted. It was a bad pr moment blown out of proportion in comparison to this, where the manipulation is present from day 1.
 
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jcd

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria
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AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
QA Tester for Beamdog said:
So, what's it going to be now? "If someone doesn't like it, too bad", or "Can you be a bit more... humane"?

I also like the notion that if you are making a CoD you are mainstream and unoriginal, but if you are making an expansion to BG you are so very Underground and you are entitled to a good response, regardless of bugs, weak writing, and linear gameplay.

There's other crap too, but at this point it really doesn't deserve comment.
 

Immortal

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Beamdog is getting BTFO'd by that trans person on steam... She is extremely introspective and well spoken. An SJW's nightmare..
I actually feel bad for Dee.. his job is basically to clean up Ambers Slop off the floor.


http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937272938521/#p9

Dee said:
There's a lot in this thread, and unfortunately I don't have the bandwidth to read all nine pages, but I've read your top post.

I won't comment on the quality of the writing (that's really not my job here), but I can tell you that Amber is a strong advocate and friend of the LGBTQ community, and from what I know of her, "virtue signaling" is not something she would engage in intentionally.

That being said, I do hear your concerns, and I'm sorry if you feel like a bit of a football in this situation. Mizhena was never intended to cause controversy; it's supremely unfortunate that she's being used in that way, and especially if her portrayal made you feel uncomfortable.

Jinx (Based Trans) said:
Her portrayal doen't make me uncomfortable at all. It's not a character I personally like. The name thing is a bit eye rolling new agey, but that's personal opinion. My issue comes entirely from the adversarial way you chose to talk about their inclusion in the game. It's hard to see it as anything but trying to shake a hornets nest. I'm happy you want to be inclusive, but if you're going to act as ambassadors for the trans community, don't slap people in the face while doing so. When you do things this way, we become something inflicted on the game rather then something that belongs and that's even more crappy then not being put in the game in the first place. There is no way you will not provoke people everytime you send a message that is basically "I'm doing this, you can't stop me, so deal with it." It's a message that irrationally encourages opposition. This didn't have to be an issue at all. If you left it at the kotaku article for a day or two most would have forgotten about it. Instead you release these messages that gives people every insentive to fight you on it tooth and nail and when they see it being done for a trans character we get painted as the agressors too. Then we're made even more the outsiders. Maybe you weren't virtue signalling, but I have a hard time figuring out any other reason for responding in that way. It accomplishes nothing else.

Dee said:
Well, to offer some clarification, there's two quotes being used against Amber right now. One is the interview from Kotaku, and the other is a completely separate discussion thread on the Beamdog forums, which has nothing to do with Beamdog's games, where Amber is speaking about her stance as a writer in general--not as the author of this one character; and that one was posted long before the Kotaku interview took place.

The narrative that's being created using those two quotes is supremely unfortunate, but Amber's stance as a writer was not a response to the Kotaku interview.
 

Murk

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Messages
13,459
Oh god, reading Bubbles' spoiler...

...and now they've gone to far. Behead all who defile IWD.

EDIT: That beamdog forum is depressing, Frost is fighting the good fight tho, o> to you sir.
 
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Ninjerk

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Messages
14,323
Apologies for distracting from the transgender/refugee wankfest, but here's a spoiler-heavy criticism of the endgame:

So the final boss is Belhifet, the main antagonist of the icewind dale series. An enemy that you face at around level 15-18 in that game. You are expecting me to believe that a level 8-9 noobie adventurer took down a powerful named devil on his home plane thus killing him permanently when you barely defeat him with a party of mid-high level adventurers in IWD.

And yes the two games are connected because they specifically reference Belhifet and the Crenshinibon incident in one of the cutscenes in siege of dragonspear. So the events here took place long after IWD happened. Yet here they make Belhifet into some kind of low level encounter which doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

The analogy equivalent of what happened here would be a beggar killing a dragon with a pebble. Because that's what it is. Gameplay-wise Belhifet can't even be hit by anything less than +3 weapons. What this means story-wise is that Belhifet is immune to anything but the most powerful of enchanted weaponry, which you can't even get up to this point. Yet the hero somehow kills him in the middle of his stronghold in Baator with what may as well be a plastic butter knife.

The entire crusade is actually pretty Lol because going by the existing lore, they would have been shredded as soon as they walked into Avernus, nevermind making it all the way to Belhifet. If people like halaster and the chosen of mystra who are all epic level characters couldn't stay in Avernus for long without either getting wrecked or being forced to retreat ie. the Elminster in hell series, then an army of low level conscripted soldiers are just going to fall over as soon as they enter the portal.

Secondly if my character were sooo strong to the point that I was able to defeat Belhifet in a direct confrontation like this then I am going to assume that its because I have hidden damage type modifiers as a half god bhaalspawn. Thus I am going to assume that because the available weapons in bg1 are all +2 or less, my hands therefore must be enchanted +3 vorpal god hands to bypass the damage reduction Belhifet SHOULD have had as a devil more powerful than a pitfiend. Therefore my character basically ripped Belhifet apart with his bare hands because what should have happened otherwise had the writing been any good and consistant at all, was that Belhifet should have one shot the hero the same way he one shots Caelar with a flamestrike in one of the possible cutscenes.

If the hero were so strong and was able to march into hell at level 8-9 and kill Belhifet within his own stronghold with his bare hands how did I get kidnapped later by a bunch of low level assassins hired by Irenicus in the middle of the woods?

Speaking from a storytelling point of view, if I could defeat Belhifet in a direct confrontation, that means I should be powerful enough to be able to defeat anything below cornugon level at any time no matter how tired I am. So some random assassins that set up a trap/ambush should still be a cakewalk even if my character were "tired" after running through the woods after being exiled from Baldur's gate.

In fact if my character could defeat belhifet that basically puts him on the level where he should be able to defeat Irenicus already as well. Some random mooks should fall over the moment I look in their general direction. This isn't even taking game stats into consideration. If you look at it from a story perspective mid to high level adventurers are basically superheroes. They literally won't die from things like getting their throat slit as depicted in novels, and can basically cleave down legions of lesser enemies if they wanted to. Things like low level traps and poison are also completely brushed aside because of their superior resistances or magic items. If the hero were as strong as these high level adventurers and he must be or how did he defeat Belhifet? then getting kidnapped by mooks is something that could never ever have happened.

My point is that throwing Belhifet into the game creates a massive plot hole. The character should NOT have been strong enough to defeat Belhifet. The hero is a low level adventurer whose biggest kill so far is Sarevok Ie. another low level human. He shouldn't be able to suddenly kill an Belhifet much less a pit fiend especially one that is sitting in his castle in hell.

However because he DID do so, then this establishes that the hero is in fact on par with many other high level adventurers, who are basically superhuman. It makes his capture at the end of the game by hired mooks make no sense at all. It is simply impossible and anyone who is considered high level should be able to cleave these people down no matter how tired they are, gameplaywise, and storywise.

For example if lets say grandmaster kane or gareth dragonsbane got a little tired because they ran through the woods too much do you seriously think that an ambush set up by low level hired mercenaries would even phase them? of course not. Has Everis Cale another relatively high level adventurer ever been brought down by some silly ambush by low level mooks? Nope. Then we have Elminster who killed some mid level named devils like Marane the Hungry while he was nearly dead, had only 1 arm left, and no spells left, while crawling around naked in Avernus, while getting his thoughts stolen by Nurgle at the same time.

Basically by using Belhifet as an mandatory encounter and having the hero win in a direct confrontation, the devs set the Hero's power level at a point much much higher than it should be. This makes the rest of the story where the hero gets captured and experimented on by Irenicus make no sense at all because by defeating Belhifet, storywise the hero should have been powerful enough to defeat these villains without any effort and as such he never should have been captured to begin with.

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussi...f-cameos-resulting-in-major-plotholes-spoiler
Seems they're not done pissing on DnD:
Illydth Posts: 1,516
5:05AM edited 5:14AM
@Frost I really don't mean to poke my nose in on this, but I guess I am going to anyway.

A story is a story. I appreciate you attempting to bring Table top stats from your Second Edition DMG and your monster manual into Baldur's Gate: SoD written well over 20 years after the release of said DMG/Monster Manual, but unfortunately I can't agree.

I ran a campaign a couple years ago where a character by the name of Skarda (from the module "Skarda's Mirror") was actually a minion of the elemental evils (Introduced in another module I forget the name of, not from the "Temple of Elemental Evils") which was a level 10 module where you actually go into a demi-plane off the negative material plane and defeat the elemental evils.

I also ran a campaign once were I threw an ancient red dragon at a party of 7 over confident level 10's to attempt to kill them and had my ancient red dragon toasted due to some really lucky rolls and great pre-planning by the party. Does that make my campaign unbelievable? Maybe. Was it fun to play in? I think all 7 of my players would have told you hell yes.

Realistic and true to "cannon" is one thing. These games are not supposed to be an accurate representation of your DMG and Monster Manual from 2nd edition. They're a story...and with all good stories, they require you to embrace the world view of the story teller. Maybe you're too young for this, but you sound like the kind of guy that watched the matrix and said "OMG, That's such Bullshit, there's no way Nero could have dodged a bunch of bullets like that!"

OH, and BTW, if it makes you feel any better? The games were Vetted by WotC.

Don't get me wrong, you're more than free to not like the game because Bhelefet wasn't level 17 with an armor class of -10 like his stat block in a book told you it should be. Others are going to enjoy the fact that as a half god of the child of murder you delved into the first level of hell and defeated a greater devil (Demon? I keep forgetting which is which...I think devils are in hell and demons in abyss right?) as one of your accomplishments for the heroism of your character.

I'd argue both are pretty unbelievable since we're in a fantasy setting in a non-existent universe, but I will not deny you the right to your argument that the "realism" of the encounter is broken based upon the levels and skills of the PC's compared to what AD&D says they should have faced.

I personally appreciate the creativity of the story, but I also don't deny the lack of strict adherence to the AD&D manuals.

I'm guessing Drizzt Do'Urden's appearance in BG:EE bugs the living S**T out of you too?
smile.png

Post edited by Illydth at 5:14AM

TL;DR It's 2016, guys. :lol:
 

ArchAngel

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Messages
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If I remember well in all these situations you can abuse the refugees a lot. There are a couple of minor quests around them and you can be evil or a jerk to them. It is not a social commentary if you are allowed to do different then expected.

Indeed you can, but then again that option as well is presented in very black and white tones. So it also tells you what a bad person you are if you seriously think that refugees should be treated more harshly by the state/police/government, ergo social commentary.
I didn't really pick those options since I play a Good character in my play through but if we go by D&D alignment and definitions of Good and Evil, any other response would not fit a D&D world.
Also these refugees have nothing to do with real life, only in minds of edgelords. There is even no religious struggle between refugees and people that live in BG. The whole time it just focuses on personal sacrifice to help others in need which is D&D Good.
 

Shin

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Fun fact: I started playing BG:EE yesterday. My dwarven monk found a un-id magic belt; turned out to be the gender-swapping belt. So I got cursed, ran around for a bit as a female, then went to a temple to get rid of it. After paying the 500g I can remove the belt, but my gender never changed xD. So now I'm a female dwarf even though I identify as a male dwarf. I'm sure it's a bug though, iirc Edwin sometimes had similar issues.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

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Fun fact: I started playing BG:EE yesterday. My dwarven monk found a magic belt; turned out to be the gender-swapping belt. So I ran around for a bit as a female, then went to a temple to get rid of it. After paying the 500g I can remove the belt, but my gender never changed xD. So now I'm a female dwarf even though I identify as a male dwarf. I'm sure it's a bug though, iirc Edwin sometimes had similar issues.
Well good thing you're a dwarf so nobody can tell the difference.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Also these refugees have nothing to do with real life, only in minds of edgelords. There is even no religious struggle between refugees and people that live in BG.

If they'd made Throne of Bhaal today, there would have been refugees from Calimshan and then we'd be talking. :cool:
 

Immortal

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Messages
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Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Firedorn Saga - SJWs get content removed, GamerGate gets mad.
Mizhena Saga - GamerGate wants content removed?

It's a bit unfair that Obsidian got through it more-or-less completely unscathed while Beamdog might get completely trashed, but life is always harder when you're smaller.

Is this really how you remember the firedorn saga?

I remember it as the creator coming out and saying he offered to change it - to create less drama.
followed by making a even funnier poem about whiney SJW's to which all the bleeding hearts then threatened to boycott obsidian products forever..

to which obsidian replied: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

ArchAngel

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Anyways I am not going to visit this topic anymore, between rampant trolling, edgelords and fanatics and spoilers being talked about I don't want to spoil the game for myself. When I finish the game I will be back to be only sane person here (and seems one of the rare people that actually plays SoD while posting in this topic).
 

Tacgnol

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Messages
1,871,785
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Anyways I am not going to visit this topic anymore, between rampant trolling, edgelords and fanatics and spoilers being talked about I don't want to spoil the game for myself. When I finish the game I will be back to be only sane person here (and seems one of the rare people that actually plays SoD while posting in this topic).

:butthurt:
 

GrainWetski

Arcane
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
5,117
Anyways I am not going to visit this topic anymore, between rampant trolling, edgelords and fanatics and spoilers being talked about I don't want to spoil the game for myself. When I finish the game I will be back to be only sane person here (and seems one of the rare people that actually plays SoD while posting in this topic).
As long as you remember that you are the only sane person in this world!
 

Jarpie

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Codex 2012 MCA
They already knew that. Quick, name a gay character in Pillars of Eternity who doesn't work at the brothel.

The Codex's Strange New Respect™ for Carrie Patel

Maneha. Shes a lesbian.

Any male internet user should know that lesbians don't count(tm)

Comparitativly not much did happen in the Firedorn Saga. No deleted reviews or somesuch, none or close to no (don't remember correctly) bans. They even allowed the original author to change the poem himself and the only official statement was *Look, we let the author change it himself. That makes it ok*.

So, yeah from that perspective this is waaaaay more entertaining.

Firedorn Saga - SJWs get content removed, GamerGate gets mad.
Mizhena Saga - GamerGate wants content removed?

It's a bit unfair that Obsidian got through it more-or-less completely unscathed while Beamdog might get completely trashed, but life is always harder when you're smaller.

I'll be serious for a bit in here, but it's not just the content or removing it, but also shitting on the game which is very beloved by the fanbase and by those who you want to build your customerbase on is fucking retarded thing to do. Sawyer might had talked a bit of shit about old D&D systems, or hard-counters etc, but he never IMO crossed the line and he was never really disrespectful of their customer/fan-base or the IE-games, even if he could've handled it better.

When you are building your potential success on making direct sequel/DLC on the previous game (or any product for that matter), you just don't shit on it or its fans, it's just shooting yourself on a leg with the shotgun. I have studied (and I'm studying) business-crap, and one of the first things they teach us in (business) communications courses/lectures is to fucking always stay fucking respectful and being fucking nice to the people no matter what they say, especially if they should be your core customer base. It's like these people have never even taken cursory courses on "How to run a business".
 

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