Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Are graphics whores all bad?

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,753
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
See, I'm a nasty ol' two-dollar slut when it comes to graphics. I give in easier than Ru Paul at a dick-sucking contest when I see a new game advertised with all sorts of fancy effects in glorious hi-res, regardless if it's a CRPG or not.

Why? Because I appreciate graphical excellence. I do feel that it adds significantly to the enjoyment of any type of game, and when combined with even a decent RPG experience, well, suffice it to say in that case my shorts are quite in danger.

Does that make me less of a role-player? Is it wrong to regard purely aesthetic value at an approaching or even same level as that of gameplay? I wonder how valid the argument is that those who judge a game by its cover, so to speak, might be cheapening and diluting the CRPG industry by encouraging (forcing?) developers to focus not on story and deeper gameplay elements but more on flashy, bloom-enhanced DirectX goodness instead.

Using examples is always fun. There's the ubiquitous Oblivion. Clearly, its graphical appeal is its strongest point and is responsible primarily for the high volume of sales it enjoyed. Only after relying on dozens or more complex mods, fairly radically altering its core gameplay mechanics, does it begin to appeal to the more traditional CRPG fanatic. What about Fallout, though? Wouldn't you agree that at the time, its graphics were actually quite good, maybe even cutting edge? How much of a difference did the game's designers make when they decided to spend as much time as they did polishing the visuals, giving it its distinctive "gritty" style, and making sure that the character walked just right, that each gun was rendered the way they wanted, etc? In other words, would Fallout have been as good a game if it employed graphics only as good as, say, some shareware game or any other game with much lower production costs, concentrating instead on its great story, characters, and ambience? Heck, could those elements have even been better, considering that more time and resources would have been spent on them?

I guess I'm arguing my own point here, but to me that's where the crux of the matter lies. The graphics of any game, and I'll go a step further to emphasize any contemporary CRPG game, are part of the story and need to be on par with the quality of its other aspects in order to be complete and thus truly good. When any one important aspect of it, from its character creation to its combat engine to its graphical detail, are missing on quality or otherwise lacking, as is (severely) the case with Oblivion, then you've got an inferior product. Games like Fallout and BG are considered classics because they pretty much got all of their constituent parts right, without any one area seriously neglected for whatever reason. The Fallouts were such tight packages that you couldn't really look at any aspects of them and wonder, "Man, why did they do that?" (well, other than having some pretty nasty bugs at first) That including their graphical quality, which was quite pleasing, IMO.

So Fallout 3 looks very good graphically. Will its other constituent parts be likewise so beautiful?

*zip*

Where's my wallet?
 

DefJam101

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
8,047
Location
Cybernegro HQ
I don't think anyone here really gives a damn if you like good graphics. I like good graphics. Good graphics can really enhance the spirit and atmosphere of a game.

The thing is that there is a very large difference between technically superior graphics and artistically superior graphics. Art design is taking a back seat to bloom and pixel shading, and that is a problem.
 

Vibalist

Arcane
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
3,585
Location
Denmark
Not to mention the fact that good gameplay will always, in my opinion, be so much more important than nice graphics. I mean, what's the point of having good visuals if the game is boring as fuck?
 

Wyrmlord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 3, 2008
Messages
28,886
I don't take any issue with liking a game for its graphics. That is perfectly acceptable.

But here's a thing. Oblivion's graphics are not particularly good. Even by 2006 standards. IMO. Maybe people's ideas of what is pretty differs, but in Oblivion, you have alot of crude textures. The faces are actually quite rudimentary. I suppose things look pretty from a huge distance, but otherwise? I am not sure if it has much graphical appeal.
 

racofer

Thread Incliner
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
25,643
Location
Your ignore list.
DefJam101 said:
The thing is that there is a very large difference between technically superior graphics and artistically superior graphics.

Precisely. Oblivion may "look nice" but it's lifeless. Bloodlines was labeled as having "outdated graphix", but what graphic whores didn't realize was the uniqueness of it and how appropriate everything mixed together. The facial expression on the each character was unique and corresponded to what he/she was trying to communicate. Oblivion failed miserably on this, actually on everything.

Now compare the IE games to Oblivion. The richness of those 640x480 graphics and environments blow away anything Bethesda has done and will ever do.
 

Jaime Lannister

Arbiter
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Messages
7,183
I actually find it hard to play games like MotB after looking at Bloodlines' facial expressions. No game has even come close.
 

udm

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,763
Make the Codex Great Again!
DefJam101 said:
I don't think anyone here really gives a damn if you like good graphics. I like good graphics. Good graphics can really enhance the spirit and atmosphere of a game.

The thing is that there is a very large difference between technically superior graphics and artistically superior graphics. Art design is taking a back seat to bloom and pixel shading, and that is a problem.

*snip for truth*
 

DefJam101

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
8,047
Location
Cybernegro HQ
I remember the first few Doom 3 tech engine screenshots. They made me stop looking at game screenshots pre-release. They never look anything like the actual fucking game. They show what the engine is capable of in renderings, not what the game is going to look like.

doom_screen001.jpg


I crapped my pants at this fucking bullshit, not even Crysis looks that good nearly 5 years later. The trend still continues today:

UT3_E32007_10.jpg
 

DefJam101

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
8,047
Location
Cybernegro HQ
Jk lulz

That first pic is a real picture of the Doom 3 booth at E3 2003 I think. I remember looking at that pic and thinking it was a screenshot a few years ago. :lol:

Imagine this in it's place if you want:

931665_20060508_screen008.jpg
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,753
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
Jaime Lannister said:
Crispy said:
So Fallout 3 looks very good graphically

no

screen45B.jpg


That's good enough to get a chubby outta my twin 8800GTS cards, I'll tell you that much.

Still, I'll concede that some of F3's artistical choices are a bit... odd. As has been the case with just about every Bethesda title before it.

But can you argue that these graphics aren't going to be good enough to attract a large amount of graphics whores to Bethesda's doors, and in doing so that they haven't raised the bar for the game's more meaty aspects to have to match?
 

racofer

Thread Incliner
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
25,643
Location
Your ignore list.
Crispy said:
That's good enough to get a chubby outta my twin 8800GTS cards, I'll tell you that much.

Alright, so here is the motivation of this whole topic. E-Penis.

This guy has been praising Oblivion ever since he joined, just look for his first topic. He claimed Oblivion got a whole lot better when he upgraded, so much that all those nasty things about Oblivion could be overlooked. Also Shivering Isles is so good.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=22915&highlight=

This is the topic, and like always, the first reply saves the day:

Cimmerian Nights said:
Crispy said:
Yeah, the scaled leveling is still there, the NPC's all still sound like each other and tend to stare at walls. There are still many reminders present of what made Oblivion the mindless cluster fuck that it was, but those things are easier to ignore this time around.
Brian: You mean...you were raped?!
Mother: Well...at first, yes.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's a Toddler worshiper sneaking right behind us.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
7,715
racofer said:
Alright, so here is the motivation of this whole topic. E-Penis.

This guy has been praising Oblivion ever since he joined, just look for his first topic. He claimed Oblivion got a whole lot better when he upgraded, so much that all those nasty things about Oblivion could be overlooked. Also Shivering Isles is so good.
OH MY GOD SOMEONE LIKES A GAME AT A FORUM THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE AT THE SAME FORUM DON'T. LET'S GET THE PITCHFORKS AND GET THAT FUCKER OUT OF HERE, SO WE CAN CONTINUE WITH OUR BETHHATE CIRCLE JERK
 

racofer

Thread Incliner
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
25,643
Location
Your ignore list.
sportforredneck said:
racofer said:
Alright, so here is the motivation of this whole topic. E-Penis.

This guy has been praising Oblivion ever since he joined, just look for his first topic. He claimed Oblivion got a whole lot better when he upgraded, so much that all those nasty things about Oblivion could be overlooked. Also Shivering Isles is so good.
OH MY GOD SOMEONE LIKES A GAME AT A FORUM THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE AT THE SAME FORUM DON'T. LET'S GET THE PITCHFORKS AND GET THAT FUCKER OUT OF HERE, SO WE CAN CONTINUE WITH OUR BETHHATE CIRCLE JERK

Resistance is futile.

End of line.

Besides, liking Oblivion is fine. Praising it as the best thing in the world is idiotic.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,753
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
racofer said:

Hardly. Those cards are already obsolescent. The point of simply mentioning them was to further advertise my whoreness. I have no shame about it.

This guy has been praising Oblivion ever since he joined, just look for his first topic. He claimed Oblivion got a whole lot better when he upgraded, so much that all those nasty things about Oblivion could be overlooked. Also Shivering Isles is so good.

Faaack you. I was honest in that thread and I expressed my opinion. I've actually since admitted that I was wrong about SI anyway. Next up: me scrounging through all your old posts...

It's a Toddler worshiper sneaking right behind us.

No, it's someone with the balls to state his opinion. At least I'm not toting the Codex line like the mindless lemming you seem to be.
 

MINIGUNWIELDER

Scholar
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
604
sportforredneck said:
racofer said:
Alright, so here is the motivation of this whole topic. E-Penis.

This guy has been praising Oblivion ever since he joined, just look for his first topic. He claimed Oblivion got a whole lot better when he upgraded, so much that all those nasty things about Oblivion could be overlooked. Also Shivering Isles is so good.
OH MY GOD SOMEONE LIKES A GAME AT A FORUM THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE AT THE SAME FORUM DON'T. LET'S GET THE PITCHFORKS AND GET THAT FUCKER OUT OF HERE, SO WE CAN CONTINUE WITH OUR BETHHATE CIRCLE JERK

Decline of the Codex.
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,753
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
racofer said:
Besides, liking Oblivion is fine. Praising it as the best thing in the world is idiotic.

Assuming I've ever done that simply because I (at first) thought Shivering Isles was an improvement is worse than idiotic.

It's typical.
 

racofer

Thread Incliner
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
25,643
Location
Your ignore list.
Crispy said:
It's a Toddler worshiper sneaking right behind us.

No, it's someone with the balls to state his opinion. At least I'm not toting the Codex line like the mindless lemming you seem to be.

Oh, so being different is having balls, and the fact I agree with the so called Codex hivemind is a sign of weakness and submission? Interesting, because the same applies to you from a TESfer's point of view.

Besides, the first time you came in here you were comparing Shivering Isles to the second coming of christ, and then after a while, you mysteriously agreed to the Codex's point of view. Too bad I'm the lemming.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom